Jaimito Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Breaking news 142 passengers 6 crew. Awful year for aviation Despite all those headline crashes, 2014 was the safest yr in air travel history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There's a two man rule that the cockpit must have two people at all times. Looks like a break from protocol. There is no such rule in Europe but there is for US Airlines. Now Canada has mandated that 2 people need to be in the cockpit at all times. All commercial flights in Canada must have two crew members in the cockpit at all times, Transport Canada announced Thursday afternoon. Transport Minister Lisa Raitt said the new policy would be effective immediately for all airlines carrying passengers. The announcement follows a similar policy change for Air Canada, which also announced Thursday it will require two crew members to be in the cockpit of all flights at all times. The company confirmed to CTV News Thursday that it will be implementing the policy change "without delay." Other airlines that also announced theyd be adopting the policy include Air Transat and Norwegian Air Shuttle. The change was made after French officials concluded Thursday that the co-pilot of the Germanwings airliner deliberately locked the captain out of the cockpit as he "intentionally" crashed the plane into a mountain in the French Alps. The co-pilot, identified as 28-year-old Andreas Lubitz, could be heard breathing normally as he steered the Airbus A320 into the side of a mountain. In audio recording retrieved from the planes black box, the captain can be heard pounding on the locked cockpit door. It is standard protocol for U.S. carriers to always have at least two crew members in the cockpit at all times. European and Canadian carriers are not required to follow the same policy. On U.S. carriers, when a pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member must take their place. The policy is intended to ensure that, if the second pilot becomes incapacitated, the additional crew member can fetch the other pilot for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Because you flew with them and they didn't crash? Because they are one of the safest airlines out there apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The funny (or not so funny) thing is the US and other countries are spending billions on security measures to stop terrorists when the greatest danger could come from the pilots themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Just sad... "Data show that the autopilot on Germanwings Flight 9525 was reprogrammed by someone in the cockpit to change the plane's altitude from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, according to Flightradar24, a website that tracks aviation data." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Awful ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So does incident make people fearful of flying? Your life is in the hand of someone who may want to kill themselves or others on the plane. More importantly, how do you prevent further incidents like this from happening? I for one find it hard to believe they can't come up with better measures. Technology is so far ahead of itself these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horny Manatee Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Is he Muslim? If not then this will be a non-story tomorrow. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 So does incident make people fearful of flying? Your life is in the hand of someone who may want to kill themselves or others on the plane. More importantly, how do you prevent further incidents like this from happening? Psst, some guy in the oncoming lane can deliberately run into you full speed any time you get behind the wheel. Does that info make you more fearful of driving? Somebody can poison the water supply, release a toxic gas cloud into the air, and the food can be infected with e-coli. Still got to drink, breathe and eat though. I think this is why steps are taken to prevent these things from happening. Another step will be taken to prevent what happened with this unfortunate flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 There is no such rule in Europe but there is for US Airlines. Now Canada has mandated that 2 people need to be in the cockpit at all times. All commercial flights in Canada must have two crew members in the cockpit at all times, Transport Canada announced Thursday afternoon. Transport Minister Lisa Raitt said the new policy would be effective immediately for all airlines carrying passengers. The announcement follows a similar policy change for Air Canada, which also announced Thursday it will require two crew members to be in the cockpit of all flights at all times. The company confirmed to CTV News Thursday that it will be implementing the policy change "without delay." Other airlines that also announced theyd be adopting the policy include Air Transat and Norwegian Air Shuttle. The change was made after French officials concluded Thursday that the co-pilot of the Germanwings airliner deliberately locked the captain out of the cockpit as he "intentionally" crashed the plane into a mountain in the French Alps. The co-pilot, identified as 28-year-old Andreas Lubitz, could be heard breathing normally as he steered the Airbus A320 into the side of a mountain. In audio recording retrieved from the planes black box, the captain can be heard pounding on the locked cockpit door. It is standard protocol for U.S. carriers to always have at least two crew members in the cockpit at all times. European and Canadian carriers are not required to follow the same policy. On U.S. carriers, when a pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member must take their place. The policy is intended to ensure that, if the second pilot becomes incapacitated, the additional crew member can fetch the other pilot for help. This will obviously change in Europe now. Already several European carriers just announced that's what they will do. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/german-plane-crash/airlines-worldwide-adopt-two-cockpit-rule-after-germanwings-crash-n331041 Reminds me of the Costa Concordia incident. Europe carriers don't have to have a master drill before departing the port, but US does. After the cruise ship sank, then they change the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The funny (or not so funny) thing is the US and other countries are spending billions on security measures to stop terrorists when the greatest danger could come from the pilots themselves. So does incident make people fearful of flying? Your life is in the hand of someone who may want to kill themselves or others on the plane. More importantly, how do you prevent further incidents like this from happening? I wouldn't let one incident taint an otherwise trustworthy, safety-oriented group of professionals. Of the general public, pilots are likely among the least likely to wanna kill you as whatever happens to you, happens to them too. All airline crew members go through extensive background checks. Perhaps you could make them go through regular mental health checks as well (much like the medical check pilots already go through). Even then though, you've gotta compare how many times in aviation history a passenger has hijacked a plane vs. a crewmember. I'm a thousand times more ready to trust the pilot over any of the random people sitting around me. And this post isn't meant to instill fear of fellow passengers either. Rest assured, air travel is still among the safest forms of transportation, mainly because aviation is generally quick to learn from it's mistakes and implements safety measures designed to cover all bases, even if the chances of an incident are low. Even then though, there is always a risk, not just with flying, but with life in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Judging from all the info, this co-pilot seemed suicidal and had planned it for some time. A steady normal breathing rate in the face of impending doom is almost crazy, to me that shows he was almost waiting for this to happen. He may have been on drugs too, who knows. If I was to venture a completely uneducated guess, I'm guessing his GF cheated on him and he wanted to end it/get back at her in dramatic fashion. Also, planes should have some kind of automatic restrictive parameters for where you can and can't fly it along with its altitude. And you need two pilots plus a flight attendant to manually override it, something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Maybe a closet jihadist. Who knows. maybe he was black too right who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surtur Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Judging from all the info, this co-pilot seemed suicidal and had planned it for some time. A steady normal breathing rate in the face of impending doom is almost crazy, to me that shows he was almost waiting for this to happen. He may have been on drugs too, who knows. If I was to venture a completely uneducated guess, I'm guessing his GF cheated on him and he wanted to end it/get back at her in dramatic fashion. Also, planes should have some kind of automatic restrictive parameters for where you can and can't fly it along with its altitude. And you need two pilots plus a flight attendant to manually override it, something like that.I am surprised that planes done have some sort of computerised anti crash program that would over ride a pilots choices if it deemed it was going to crash but the plane still had the ability to safely fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 maybe he was black too right who knows. Yeah hey maybe he was a white German too, who knows. Wait, he was a white German! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 maybe he was black too right who knows. Race has nothing to do with it. But they have to investigate if he is a ISIS sympathizer or something like that. So far it doesn't suggest he has any ties to political/religious extremists. Latest from investigator said he has a torn up medical note in his home, saying he is unfit to work, covering the days he crashed the plane. Probably more related to depression or psychotic episodes. At his age, wouldn't be surprised if he has schizophrenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 So was he on, or not on as the case may be, some form of medication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Race has nothing to do with it. But they have to investigate if he is a ISIS sympathizer or something like that. So far it doesn't suggest he has any ties to political/religious extremists. Latest from investigator said he has a torn up medical note in his home, saying he is unfit to work, covering the days he crashed the plane. Probably more related to depression or psychotic episodes. At his age, wouldn't be surprised if he has schizophrenia. This incident is going to seriously change the way employers feel about mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I am surprised that planes done have some sort of computerised anti crash program that would over ride a pilots choices if it deemed it was going to crash but the plane still had the ability to safely fly. Also, planes should have some kind of automatic restrictive parameters for where you can and can't fly it along with its altitude. And you need two pilots plus a flight attendant to manually override it, something like that. Planes already have flight envelope restrictions to keep pilots from putting certain forces on the plane that would damage it, but that's a bit different. But you can't restrict a pilots ability to control the aircraft too much, as things don't always go according to plan. Consider the case of US Airways Flight 1549, where the captain saved everyone one bored with his perfectly executed ditching of the plane into the Hudson River. What if computers had interfered with that? By the time the flight attendants had come into override (they would have been busy with their own emergency procedures) it may have been too late. A computer can't tell what's in the pilot's head, for all they know it could just be coming in for a necessary landing. A plane can tell when there is terrain in front of it, but it wouldn't always be able to figure out the best course of action to avoid it. IMO this is a mental health issue, not a technical one. This incident could incite fear that all pilots are potential mentally unhinged killers, but that's not the case. I'm only aware of a few incidents like this happening in all the history of aviation, but I can easily pull up many cases where well-trained pilots saved lives through quick thinking. This is a classic debate in aviation: the pilot vs. the computer. Both are needed as neither is perfect. Here's my opinion: computers are there to assist a pilot and inform them of possible dangers, but the pilot should have the final say. The wrong restriction on a pilot's ability to remain in control at the wrong time can kill more people that it was intended to save. A WELL TRAINED (this is the key) pilot is the number one safety feature on a plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neversummer Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 First we try to keep the bad guys from getting into the cockpit. Now we have to find a way for good guys to get into the cockpit. If there was enough time, this is where a remote takeover of a plane's control would have come in handy. But that's another thread ... MH320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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