J.I.A.H.N Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I sat here tonight wondering what I could possibly say that might not anger Canuck fans, and realized there is nothing that won't get attacked on here unless, you say you love Burrows, Hamhuis, The Sedins, Lack etc. And I have liked them and their past contributions. But, the truth is our core is old, small and slow, our middle aged players are not or never will be elite players, and we have over paid for some of our depth. The truth is, there are not too many Detroit's or Chicago's, out there that can constantly rebuild on the fly, but most of that has come from good scouting and management. For me, our additions, have been mediocre at best.I realize this needs an explanation, and here it is. Miller is just that mediocre, Vrbata is not built for the playoffs(some of which could be his age, but never the less), Vey is absolutely a undersized, low end 2nd liner at very best, Sbisa is a 5 or 6 dman, Bonino has bottom end 2nd line skill, but would probably be a great 3rd line center, but never more. This is not to say we do not have skill, but it is either young skill or old skill, and it won't be changed by a simple trade.....maybe a trade and time, but not simply a trade. I advocate trading older talent, which some teams need, and which they will be willing to pay for, but it also means we will be a lesser of a team for a couple of years. I think it was a mistake to sign Miller this year, and a mistake to not trade Matthias and Richardson at the deadline. I think that trading Hamhuis will hurt a bit, but we managed without him this winter for a longer period. If Benning doesn't trade core players this up coming year, it will be a major mistake. When I have suggested trading Core players like Vrbata, Hamhuis, Burrows, Higgins, and Miller, you have ranted on me as if I am suggesting trading them all.......which is not the case But we need several big, fast elite players to improve our future, as I ask you, how have you felt we compare against Anaheim, Winnipeg, Montreal, Rangers, Detroit,Chicago and Nashville? Be honest, do you see any comparison to our Canucks? Unfortunately, I don't. Their teams are young, big, fast, and skilled, with multiple young or mid aged elite players on them, and yet many CDC's somehow believe we are close. Truth is we are not and the sooner we accept that fact and support the tough decisions and trades, the faster we will recover. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but are we really as good as you think? I don't think we are, and need to build through the draft, which includes acquiring picks for players. Feast away! It is not that we are loosing, it is the way we are loosing to a 16th place team that bothers me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*VaNcOuVeRCaNuCkS* Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I stopped reading at Miller is mediocre At the time of Miller's injury he was hanging with the best in terms of wins and shutouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*VaNcOuVeRCaNuCkS* Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 You are also throwing the "elite" status around like it grows on trees There are only a handful of elite players in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magician Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 We're a great reg season team and we will be next year but we need to build more around the playoffs. Roster's way to soft to compete with teams that dial it up a notch in the playoffs. That's been the case the last 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure.10 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 When did Chicago rebuild on the fly? They were terrible for so long until they drafted toews and Kane. They made the playoffs only once from 1998-2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nux4lyfe Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 We're a great reg season team and we will be next year but we need to build more around the playoffs. Roster's way to soft to compete with teams that dial it up a notch in the playoffs. That's been the case the last 4 years. Agreed. Same story, different year..Make the playoffs and get ousted in the first round...Management's got a lot of work ahead of them if they want to see this team actually compete in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 I didn't say generational, which is a term I don't think many use well around here. I said elite, which are many 1st line players, and at least one elite dman on every team. The thing is the Sedin's are fringe elite players and hold that status with their puck control and scoring. We have no elite dman, not an elite goalie. And we are so not built for the playoffs............we are small and can't raise to the intensity of the playoff built teams.....talking to a co-worker today, and he said that we just aren't big enough or fast enough..........forwards and Dman...........Dman can't stop the larger or faster players from getting to the net, and we have a hard time getting their ourselves. Consider the CHL, there are many that don't make the NHL, that have been top ten scores, but just can't rise to the next level. Elite hockey players are those ones that can raise their game when the chips are down, and the team looks for their offensive leadership and hard driving style............see the differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Chiago won a cup, dismantled somewhat, then rebuilt and won another cup.........they replaced Buffalo, Shaw and Versteg (Bad spelling)......I think that qualifies somewhat.....we certainly didn't do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I sat here tonight wondering what I could possibly say that might not anger Canuck fans, and realized there is nothing that won't get attacked on here unless, you say you love Burrows, Hamhuis, The Sedins, Lack etc. And I have liked them and their past contributions. It's not so much what people say, as how they say it. As long as the opinions are reasonable (Julien for Desjardins? Lucic for Horvat? Not reasonable!) and you aren't too condescending saying it, you'll be fine. But, the truth is our core is old, small and slow, our middle aged players are not or never will be elite players, and we have over paid for some of our depth. Agreed. The truth is, there are not too many Detroit's or Chicago's, out there that can constantly rebuild on the fly, but most of that has come from good scouting and management. Chicago did not rebuild on the fly. They were crap for a decade. EDIT: Oh, you meant they're post-2010 rebuild. Then yes, that was a very good rebuild dependent on good drafting around a still young core. For me, our additions, have been mediocre at best.I realize this needs an explanation, and here it is. Miller is just that mediocre, Vrbata is not built for the playoffs(some of which could be his age, but never the less), Vey is absolutely a undersized, low end 2nd liner at very best, Sbisa is a 5 or 6 dman, Bonino has bottom end 2nd line skill, but would probably be a great 3rd line center, but never more. Miller is inconsistent. Just compare his GAA and SV% between his wins and losses. I don't know what's up with Vrbata. Even players "not built for the playoffs" don't just drop off a cliff like he did. Agreed on Vey, Sbisa, and Bonino. This is not to say we do not have skill, but it is either young skill or old skill, and it won't be changed by a simple trade.....maybe a trade and time, but not simply a trade. I advocate trading older talent, which some teams need, and which they will be willing to pay for, but it also means we will be a lesser of a team for a couple of years. Agreed. I think it was a mistake to sign Miller this year, and a mistake to not trade Matthias and Richardson at the deadline. I think that trading Hamhuis will hurt a bit, but we managed without him this winter for a longer period. It's easy to say we should've traded Matthias and Richardson but who knows what was being offered. JB said he didn't shop them, and he clearly wasn't thrilled with any offers he got or they'd be gone. If Benning doesn't trade core players this up coming year, it will be a major mistake. When I have suggested trading Core players like Vrbata, Hamhuis, Burrows, Higgins, and Miller, you have ranted on me as if I am suggesting trading them all.......which is not the case If we don't want them because they're "mediocre" and old, why could other teams give up anything substantial? But we need several big, fast elite players to improve our future, as I ask you, how have you felt we compare against Anaheim, Winnipeg, Montreal, Rangers, Detroit,Chicago and Nashville? Be honest, do you see any comparison to our Canucks? Unfortunately, I don't. Their teams are young, big, fast, and skilled, with multiple young or mid aged elite players on them, and yet many CDC's somehow believe we are close. Truth is we are not and the sooner we accept that fact and support the tough decisions and trades, the faster we will recover. I think as it stands, we are close, just a bit behind. The different is, we are trending downwards, while other teams are stable or trending upwards. The gap between us and them will only grow larger if changes aren't made. However, right now, we can still compete with them. Not beat them, but compete. Like Winnipeg was very competitive against Anaheim but still got swept. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but are we really as good as you think? I don't think we are, and need to build through the draft, which includes acquiring picks for players. Feast away! It is not that we are loosing, it is the way we are loosing to a 16th place team that bothers me! A team's position in the league standings from the Regular season means very little to how they're playing at the moment. Teams get hot. Teams get cold. Right now, the Flames are on Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 All I can say is...good for the OP. At least he's not drunk and angry this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I stopped reading at Miller is mediocre At the time of Miller's injury he was hanging with the best in terms of wins and shutouts Of goalies that player >30 games, Miller was not even in the top 30 in SV%. I think mediocre actually describes that kind of production quite well. Wins are a team metric, a goalie can be well below average and the team can still win. SV% while not infallible is a much better indicator. Before many of you jump jan for his assessment, understand that he just wants the team to be able to contend for a Cup and disagrees with the direction the franchise has taken. I think some of it has come down from the top. I think Linden might have been given a directive to retool while still keeping the team competitive. It remains to be seen whether the strategy will work out in the long term but it is the direction the organization has chosen. It is probably easier to strip the team down, sell all parts and rebuild but the Canucks have chosen to take the harder route there. Maybe the team's directive will change in another year if this core proves that it cannot get it done. Till then the current management will just have to keep adding good young talent and maybe down the line when they do decide to rebuild they will already have an established prospect pool that they can draw from to speed up the process. There is not just one style of rebuild, the scorched earth policy may work for a few teams but with the lottery alterations you might be able to draft at the top of the draft without stripping the team down to the bare bones. Patience is key in this process though. As long as you don't see management sacrificing the future for the now you should not be too concerned. There will come a time when Vancouver will decide that they have to strip the team and rebuild, just enjoy the team till that day comes. These things work in a cycle, just because your team might lose in the first round does not mean it was a wasted year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure.10 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Chiago won a cup, dismantled somewhat, then rebuilt and won another cup.........they replaced Buffalo, Shaw and Versteg (Bad spelling)......I think that qualifies somewhat.....we certainly didn't do that! No that doesn't qualify. Their main players still remained intact. They never replaced Shaw, he's still on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Need a bigger, faster, younger rooster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_74 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Need a bigger, faster, younger rooster. Definately need a bigger, faster and younger Rooster. edit: Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ^Jah, now that's the ticket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Whats with the plethora of horrible threads all of a sudden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_74 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Whats with the plethora of horrible threads all of a sudden? We're down 3-1 in a series against the flames. If we win the next game CDC will pull a complete 180 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 We're down 3-1 in a series against the flames. If we win the next game CDC will pull a complete 180 The OP has been consistent in his message since the last off season so I don't think he has been as up and down as some posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Where'swellwood asked a good question about our older players. I will try to explain from my point of view. Wellwood asks: Well if they are mediocre and we don't want them, why should anyone else want them. Explanation: Many of our older core are winding down their careers, or at least on the backside of it. The skill that made them good hockey players is still there, the hands, IQ, maturity, and disposition remain, and it what younger team like Edmonton lack and require to help their young players progress. But as they age, their bodies are breaking down , and injuries and pains that slow you down but you can still play persist, the constant crashing that is the norm of playoff hockey catches them fast because, they are slower than their younger years. On a team like the Canucks, they are still asked to play the same roles, because they are still the best at doing it on our team. On younger teams that have higher end talent, the older core is asked to show the younger players how to be professional and how to play their games, while not being asked to do it with the same consistency, because they are sheltered by the younger players speed and exuberance. Guys like Higgins...a great defensive player who does the little things right, Hamhuis who has the experience at the highest level of competition (Team Canada), Burrows that has hade it to the bigs by guts and determination, or Richardson who was a higher scorer in juniors, but adapted his role to be a defensive forward...key word being a adapt...........these are things that make acquiring veterans so valuable. We have too many of these guys and not enough high end talent to compete against those teams that have both..........that's my short take on it....but they still have a lot of value to the team in need of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I didn't say generational, which is a term I don't think many use well around here. I said elite, which are many 1st line players, and at least one elite dman on every team. The thing is the Sedin's are fringe elite players and hold that status with their puck control and scoring. We have no elite dman, not an elite goalie. And we are so not built for the playoffs............we are small and can't raise to the intensity of the playoff built teams.....talking to a co-worker today, and he said that we just aren't big enough or fast enough..........forwards and Dman...........Dman can't stop the larger or faster players from getting to the net, and we have a hard time getting their ourselves. Consider the CHL, there are many that don't make the NHL, that have been top ten scores, but just can't rise to the next level. Elite hockey players are those ones that can raise their game when the chips are down, and the team looks for their offensive leadership and hard driving style............see the differences? Weren't you the one that had Kassian in a lot of trade proposals? kind of need him and his size right about now..right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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