Canucks’ four biggest mistakes of the past year

[RUPERTKBD]

You just have to insist that Benning is being totally honest, while insisting that he didn't have the know-how to shop him? I didn't miss that quote actually, because I listened to each of his weekly interviews. And in each one he was asked the same questions about Zack "the Storyline" Kassian and in each one he answered by saying that he had turned the corner and you don't just trade a player like that. And every week reliable sources say he was shopped for all he was worth. These sources are executives that tell trusted journalists little tidbits. They aren't factual reports, but they are an awful lot more credible than a guy who is actually in the game. Do you get that?

Banging in a few pucks while playing with hall of famers is not all that amazing, especially if you can't actually forecheck two shifts in a row.

And I love how you jump to the assumption that the shopping starting last summer. I didn't say that, I didn't hear reports of it, and it totally doesn't matter. He sucked all year, and we now have abundant evidence that he was not valued.

It's hard to figure out exactly what you're getting at here, but are you saying that Benning was being less than honest when he said that Kassian had been playing well and doing the things he was asked to do? That's an extremely weak argument.

And you're saying that "tidbits" reported by people in the media (who's job it is to speculate) are more reliable than the GM of the team? Absolutely laughable.

Your third paragraph is nothing but biased opinion and shows how little you actually know about the game.

Finally, I didn't jump to any conclusion. You said that they were trying to move him "all year", citing these nebulous "sources" that you never seem to actually post... Benning has only been with the team one year, so it must follow that he decided to trade him before Kassian had played a single game with him as GM.

You are also incorrect in stating that he "sucked all year". The Benning quote (in which you suggest he was lying) contradicts that opinion, such as it is.

Benning's job in Boston was to know all the players in the league, both on and off the ice. Him trying to move Kassian from day one shows me that Benning was on top of ALL the players in the league, and knew Kassian ahead of coming here. All the teams know of Kassian's issues. I'm disappointed with Gillis not knowing of those issues, and trading for Kassian in the first lace. That's an indication Gillis did not know what he was doing. I don't want to go on a Gillis ruined our team rant, but ......Ballard?

As I said earlier, a GM who makes a decision on a player without first discussing what is expected of him and giving said player the chance to buy in is doing his franchise a disservice. Especially when said player is blessed with the physical tools and skill that Kassian has.

If you are correct that Benning decided to trade Kassian before taking over the team (something I've heard many times from you and your fellow Kassian bashers, but have yet to see verified) I stand by my opinion that it is extremely poor asset management and it makes me fear for the future of the franchise under this leadership.

[Mattrek]

You must have missed this quote from Jim Benning:

If you were trying to move a player do you think you'd broadcast to the world that he sucked? Come off it. Benning had been trying to move Kassian for a long time, that says all you need to know about what Benning actually thought about him.

[RUPERTKBD]

If you were trying to move a player do you think you'd broadcast to the world that he sucked? Come off it. Benning had been trying to move Kassian for a long time, that says all you need to know about what Benning actually thought about him.

Ah yes, yet another "Benning was just saying that. He didn't mean it" proponent, coupled with the obligatory "He was trying to trade him forever!" post.

Haven't seen one of those in hours....

[stawns]

A valid question.

Another valid question is, why would you trade a guy who looked to have bought into what was being asked of him, especially when his value was at rock bottom?

What Cammer and I are saying is that with his value that low, it makes sense to give him another shot to see if he could maintain the way he was playing before getting hurt. That way, if you are still bound and determined to get rid of him, you at least get some value, rather than paying to have someone take him off your hands.

I was never shy about Kass being my favourite Canuck, and I, like many, felt he was never put into a position to succeed in Vancouver and thats unfortunate because I think he could have been great here.

That said, though I wasn't, initially, happy with the deal, I've come to accept and appreciate it, to some degree. One thing about Benning is that he doesn't mess around. If there's something he wants to change, he changes it before it starts to fester. Perhaps keeping Kass until the deadline may have increased his value slightly, but may have caused innecessary drama in the meantime. Where Gillis held onto players to try and maximize value (to the detriment of the team more often than not), JB acts, rather than waits. I find it a refreshing change of pace.

[Mattrek]

Ah yes, yet another "Benning was just saying that. He didn't mean it" proponent, coupled with the obligatory "He was trying to trade him forever!" post.

Haven't seen one of those in hours....

Says the person who is basing his entire argument on the quote:

"But Zack has played very well for us the last couple of weeks and weve been happy with his play. Hes stepped up and hes doing the things we want him to do and hes been part of our team winning the last couple of weeks.

Pot meet kettle.

Use your common sense to judge which is more likely true:

Benning wanted to trade a player who had back issues and on and off ice issues and tried to not throw him under the bus and the best offer out there to remove this issue was for Prust.

Or

After the back injuries and prior on and off ice issues he had a change of heart, praised Kassian and then changed his mind again and was willing to only get Prust a 34 year old for him.

[RUPERTKBD]

Says the person who is basing his entire argument on the quote:

Pretend you're coming into a conversation where one person is basing his position on a direct quote from a person in a position to know...

...meanwhile, the other person is disagreeing and basing his position on an unsubstantiated claim that the person is being untruthful.

Which person would say has the stronger argument?

[Alflives]

It's hard to figure out exactly what you're getting at here, but are you saying that Benning was being less than honest when he said that Kassian had been playing well and doing the things he was asked to do? That's an extremely weak argument.

And you're saying that "tidbits" reported by people in the media (who's job it is to speculate) are more reliable than the GM of the team? Absolutely laughable.

Your third paragraph is nothing but biased opinion and shows how little you actually know about the game.

Finally, I didn't jump to any conclusion. You said that they were trying to move him "all year", citing these nebulous "sources" that you never seem to actually post... Benning has only been with the team one year, so it must follow that he decided to trade him before Kassian had played a single game with him as GM.

You are also incorrect in stating that he "sucked all year". The Benning quote (in which you suggest he was lying) contradicts that opinion, such as it is.

As I said earlier, a GM who makes a decision on a player without first discussing what is expected of him and giving said player the chance to buy in is doing his franchise a disservice. Especially when said player is blessed with the physical tools and skill that Kassian has.

If you are correct that Benning decided to trade Kassian before taking over the team (something I've heard many times from you and your fellow Kassian bashers, but have yet to see verified) I stand by my opinion that it is extremely poor asset management and it makes me fear for the future of the franchise under this leadership.

I'm not a Kassian brasher. I am seduced by his talents too. If player "x" is 6'3" and weighs 225, and can play a physical nasty game, and skates excellent, and has great skills, why does a GM trade him? IMO it's because the player's off ice issues are such that they outweigh his talents. Considering Kassian's skill set and size how bad do you think those off ice issues must be? I don't know how to make links, but there are news paper articles on line describing some of Kassian's off ice problems from as early as his Junior days. However, I would not be disappointed at all if Big Zach cleaned up his act, and score 50 in Montreal. I hope he does well. I don't expect he will, but I do hope he does.

[RUPERTKBD]

I'm not a Kassian brasher. I am seduced by his talents too. If player "x" is 6'3" and weighs 225, and can play a physical nasty game, and skates excellent, and has great skills, why does a GM trade him? IMO it's because the player's off ice issues are such that they outweigh his talents. Considering Kassian's skill set and size how bad do you think those off ice issues must be? I don't know how to make links, but there are news paper articles on line describing some of Kassian's off ice problems from as early as his Junior days. However, I would not be disappointed at all if Big Zach cleaned up his act, and score 50 in Montreal. I hope he does well. I don't expect he will, but I do hope he does.

You're late to the conversation.

The discussion was about whether Kassian had been playing better and buying into what was asked of him after the benching and before the back injury sidelined him.

I posted a quote from Jim Benning that said he had done exactly that. The other side argued that he must have been lying.

[Alflives]

You're late to the conversation.

The discussion was about whether Kassian had been playing better and buying into what was asked of him after the benching and before the back injury sidelined him.

I posted a quote from Jim Benning that said he had done exactly that. The other side argued that he must have been lying.

Benning does not impress me as a liar. If anything, he's refreshingly openly honest.

[Crabcakes]

You're late to the conversation.

The discussion was about whether Kassian had been playing better and buying into what was asked of him after the benching and before the back injury sidelined him.

I posted a quote from Jim Benning that said he had done exactly that. The other side argued that he must have been lying.

Benning's comments were premature. Kassian did respond to the talking to and benching but it didn't last long.

[Alflives]

Benning's comments were premature. Kassian did respond to the talking to and benching but it didn't last long.

I have no idea what Kassian's off ice issues were (are), but they must be pretty bad to give up on a young player with his set of tools. Then to top it off, no teams wanted him, except Monteal.

[Crabcakes]

I have no idea what Kassian's off ice issues were (are), but they must be pretty bad to give up on a young player with his set of tools. Then to top it off, no teams wanted him, except Monteal.

He has the tools but won't use them the way Benning (or multiple other coaches and GM's) wants him to. Potential only buys you so much time. Kassian ran out of time regardless of what went on off the ice.

Development is a big deal to this team and if there is one guy who doesn't buy in and tow the line and is allowed to get away with it then he is a cancer in the room. Benning did the right thing and moved him along.

[Alflives]

He has the tools but won't use them the way Benning (or multiple other coaches and GM's) wants him to. Potential only buys you so much time. Kassian ran out of time regardless of what went on off the ice.

Development is a big deal to this team and if there is one guy who doesn't buy in and tow the line and is allowed to get away with it then he is a cancer in the room. Benning did the right thing and moved him along.

Yes, I agree with you. Hockey is certainly a team game. I don't know if Kassian was a cancer though? By all accounts, the other players liked the big guy.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Face value it is. Who am I to think that Jim's on-air comments about an 'asset' may have been for public consumption and not what he'd tell you after a drink.

The longer these "he said, she said" things go the dumber it gets.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Yes, I agree with you. Hockey is certainly a team game. I don't know if Kassian was a cancer though? By all accounts, the other players liked the big guy.

Reporter: "This Zack guy is probably pretty problematic right?"

Nuck: "Well....uh....oh no, we love him."

Reporter: "Do you love Eddie and hope he gets the starting job?"

Nuck: "Oh yeah, great personality."

It's rich stuff. But as Rupe says, why would anyone make less 100% truthful statements?

[RUPERTKBD]

Benning does not impress me as a liar. If anything, he's refreshingly openly honest.

Agreed. Which is why I believe the statement that he posted.

Benning's comments were premature. Kassian did respond to the talking to and benching but it didn't last long.

Disagree. Those statements were referring to his play before his back injury sidelined him.

Reporter: "This Zack guy is probably pretty problematic right?"

Nuck: "Well....uh....oh no, we love him."

Reporter: "Do you love Eddie and hope he gets the starting job?"

Nuck: "Oh yeah, great personality."

It's rich stuff. But as Rupe says, why would anyone make less 100% truthful statements?

...and like you say, "If the facts don't fit my narrative, I'll fabricate something and pass it off as more likely than an actual quote",

[Alflives]

Agreed. Which is why I believe the statement that he posted.

Disagree. Those statements were referring to his play before his back injury sidelined him.

...and like you say, "If the facts don't fit my narrative, I'll fabricate something and pass it off as more likely than an actual quote",

I think my point has been all along that Kassian's issues are off ice. When a guy with his size, talent, and meanness gets to where no teams in the league want him (excepting one - and the price was basically free) then his off ice issues must be pretty bad. Heck we had to add a fifth rounder to have someone take him! I don't know, and will not speculate, what his off ice issues are, but clearly (considering no teams wanted him) the league knows.

[RUPERTKBD]

I think my point has been all along that Kassian's issues are off ice. When a guy with his size, talent, and meanness gets to where no teams in the league want him (excepting one - and the price was basically free) then his off ice issues must be pretty bad. Heck we had to add a fifth rounder to have someone take him! I don't know, and will not speculate, what his off ice issues are, but clearly (considering no teams wanted him) the league knows.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. (although I've yet to see any confirmation from Canuck management that this is the case)

What I've said all along is that it was poor asset management to dump a player when his value was that low. It's my opinion that management had their mind made up about him before his play improved. Whatever the reasoning was doesn't change my opinion that the team would have been better served to let him start the season with a healthy back and if they still wanted him gone, trade him during the season, when he had more value.

FTR: I don't buy into the theory that his "poor example" would affect the younger players on the team, not do I believe that his value could have dropped any further.

In my mind, he was playing better and he had started to do what was expected of him before the back injury took him out of the lineup. I believe that if not for the back problem, Benning could have gotten much better value for him in a trade.

[Alflives]

I don't necessarily disagree with this. (although I've yet to see any confirmation from Canuck management that this is the case)

What I've said all along is that it was poor asset management to dump a player when his value was that low. It's my opinion that management had their mind made up about him before his play improved. Whatever the reasoning was doesn't change my opinion that the team would have been better served to let him start the season with a healthy back and if they still wanted him gone, trade him during the season, when he had more value.

FTR: I don't buy into the theory that his "poor example" would affect the younger players on the team, not do I believe that his value could have dropped any further.

In my mind, he was playing better and he had started to do what was expected of him before the back injury took him out of the lineup. I believe that if not for the back problem, Benning could have gotten much better value for him in a trade.

I think we agree, on the most part. It's not necessarily Kassian's play that affected his value, it's his off ice issues. That's where we differ. I don't see his, and the league agrees, value increasing (regardless of his play) unless he changed his off ice habits. Considering his age, experience in the league, and opportunity to make change to his off ice habits, the league felt Kassian is likely not to change.

[RUPERTKBD]

I think we agree, on the most part. It's not necessarily Kassian's play that affected his value, it's his off ice issues. That's where we differ. I don't see his, and the league agrees, value increasing (regardless of his play) unless he changed his off ice habits. Considering his age, experience in the league, and opportunity to make change to his off ice habits, the league felt Kassian is likely not to change.

It's a fair enough opinion, but you have to concede that it's based purely on speculation.

Benning has said nothing about off-ice issues. He has only ever publicly questioned Zack's consistency. I agree that there is likely more to it than that, but I prefer to deal with what I actually know, rather than state something as fact, without anything other than "where there's smoke, there's fire" to back it up.

There is also no evidence that "the league agrees" with your assertion that his value could have increased. There is no way to know what might have happened, nor what Kassian's value might have been, has he started the season in Vancouver.

However, if he plays in Montreal, the way he did just before the injury, I stand by my assessment that the trade is going to look very bad on the Canucks.