Congrats to Lu - moving up in all time wins - Luuuu

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

Ok so what goalies internationally should we compare him to? Tretiak? Better yet other than Tretiak name a HOF goalie that has been voted in on events not in NHL.

That is actually irrelevant. Decisions are made on a player's full hockey career, not just their NHL years. It's why players like Kharlamov, Makarov, Tretiak and Fetisov are already enshrined. Players who have made a significant contribution at any of the highest levels of the game will be considered; Luongo will not only have an NHL top 5 wins record, but a top 10 shutouts record, saves record, minutes played record - in addition to his Team Canada achievements.

 

Luongo towers above the likes of CuJo, Khabibulin (1st year eligible next year) and even Osgood with his 3 Cups.

[Westcoasting]

12 minutes ago, Captain Azzy said:

That is actually irrelevant. Decisions are made on a player's full hockey career, not just their NHL years. It's why players like Kharlamov, Makarov, Tretiak and Fetisov are already enshrined. Players who have made a significant contribution at any of the highest levels of the game will be considered; Luongo will not only have an NHL top 5 wins record, but a top 10 shutouts record, saves record, minutes played record - in addition to his Team Canada achievements.

 

Luongo towers above the likes of CuJo, Khabibulin (1st year eligible next year) and even Osgood with his 3 Cups.

But there is not one goalie without a Vezina or Stanley Cups in HOF are saying he will be the first?

 

[Westcoasting]

14 minutes ago, Captain Azzy said:

That is actually irrelevant. Decisions are made on a player's full hockey career, not just their NHL years. It's why players like Kharlamov, Makarov, Tretiak and Fetisov are already enshrined. Players who have made a significant contribution at any of the highest levels of the game will be considered; Luongo will not only have an NHL top 5 wins record, but a top 10 shutouts record, saves record, minutes played record - in addition to his Team Canada achievements.

 

Luongo towers above the likes of CuJo, Khabibulin (1st year eligible next year) and even Osgood with his 3 Cups.

I agree but name a goalie other than Tretiak who is in the HOF based on a hockey career besides the NHL.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

But there is not one goalie without a Vezina or Stanley Cups in HOF are saying he will be the first?

 

His career's not done yet, and he's playing on a playoff team. He could have multiple Cups ahead of him.

 

But even without a Cup or Vezina, the answer is a clear "yes":

• The year Brodeur passed the league record for wins in a season, Lu equalled the old record. Only Brodeur and Holtby can boast more wins in a single season.
• He will end up at the very least top 5 in all-time wins, most likely 3rd or even 2nd.
• He will end up at the very least top 9 in all-time wins, most likely 6th at best.
• Among goalies with at least 80 wins, he's currently 9th all-time in SV%.
• He's won two Olympic Gold medals, a World Cup and two World Championships.
• He also won a Jennings in 2011.

That is a Hall of Fame caliber resume, regardless of the individual. If that was Tim Thomas, I'd be saying he's in.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

I agree but name a goalie other than Tretiak who is in the HOF based on a hockey career besides the NHL.

Why does there need to be? There aren't any worthy of consideration. It doesn't mean there won't be in the future. And besides, goalies are woefully under-represented in the Hall. Too many sexy scorers and puck-moving D with their big point totals and 1,400 game careers.

 

There are currently 38 goalies in the Hall. Are you honestly saying isn't a top 39 goalie, all-time? Both CuJo and Khabibulin are too.

[Westcoasting]

Just now, Captain Azzy said:

Why does there need to be? There aren't any worthy of consideration. It doesn't mean there won't be in the future. And besides, goalies are woefully under-represented in the Hall. Too many sexy scorers and puck-moving D with their big point totals and 1,400 game careers.

 

There are currently 38 goalies in the Hall. Are you honestly saying isn't a top 39 goalie, all-time? Both CuJo and Khabibulin are too.

This is exactly my point. I have no disrespect to Lui or any other goalie not in HOF. My point is that as of right now unless things change, i don't think he is going in as there are a bunch of goalies that should be in but are avoided. That is a reality. They hold goalies on a different level than a flashy forward or defensemen. Tom Barasso immediately comes to mind with 1 calder, 1 vezina, 1 jennings, 1 first team all star, 2 stanley cups... i think that should get someone in but as of now no. Mike Vernon is another.

 

And let's be realistic too, Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr got in because of Stanley Cups for the most part. They don't compare to Patrick Roy or Hasek, it was they were on a winning franchise team. I don't agree but that is just the way it is. And the way it currently is, i don't see Lui getting in without changes to the thinking of HOF voting members.

 

 

[JV77]

29 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

This is exactly my point. I have no disrespect to Lui or any other goalie not in HOF. My point is that as of right now unless things change, i don't think he is going in as there are a bunch of goalies that should be in but are avoided. That is a reality. They hold goalies on a different level than a flashy forward or defensemen. Tom Barasso immediately comes to mind with 1 calder, 1 vezina, 1 jennings, 1 first team all star, 2 stanley cups... i think that should get someone in but as of now no. Mike Vernon is another.

 

And let's be realistic too, Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr got in because of Stanley Cups for the most part. They don't compare to Patrick Roy or Hasek, it was they were on a winning franchise team. I don't agree but that is just the way it is. And the way it currently is, i don't see Lui getting in without changes to the thinking of HOF voting members.

 

 

Get in or not, I would put him as one the best goalies to play the game.  Top 10.

[Westcoasting]

27 minutes ago, JV77 said:

Get in or not, I would put him as one the best goalies to play the game.  Top 10.

hmmm.... using what criteria then? Or do you mean top 10 of his playing days?

And how long have you watched hockey, i have watched since 1973 just for reference.

[apollo]

2 hours ago, Captain Azzy said:

His career's not done yet, and he's playing on a playoff team. He could have multiple Cups ahead of him.

 

But even without a Cup or Vezina, the answer is a clear "yes":

• The year Brodeur passed the league record for wins in a season, Lu equalled the old record. Only Brodeur and Holtby can boast more wins in a single season.
• He will end up at the very least top 5 in all-time wins, most likely 3rd or even 2nd.
• He will end up at the very least top 9 in all-time wins, most likely 6th at best.
• Among goalies with at least 80 wins, he's currently 9th all-time in SV%.
• He's won two Olympic Gold medals, a World Cup and two World Championships.
• He also won a Jennings in 2011.

That is a Hall of Fame caliber resume, regardless of the individual. If that was Tim Thomas, I'd be saying he's in.

I guess it's too early to tell, but I wonder if he'll be a 1st ballot guy or not. There really is absolutely no doubt that he'll be inducted... even if his career ended today. 

The consistency of his play since he joined the league is god like. 

 

I woke up a little less bitter this morning how everything unfolded... Miller is still the better fighter!!!! 

[JV77]

5 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

hmmm.... using what criteria then? Or do you mean top 10 of his playing days?

And how long have you watched hockey, i have watched since 1973 just for reference.

Numbers.  That's the only thing you can go by.

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, JV77 said:

Numbers.  That's the only thing you can go by.

lol well no you can't go by numbers alone because you can't compare that over history as the game has changed so much. Remember Hasek in the 90's? Now he is just average in today's numbers. Or putting numbers on Patrick Roy in the playoffs, it doesn't work but there has never been a better playoff goalie.

[JV77]

16 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

lol well no you can't go by numbers alone because you can't compare that over history as the game has changed so much. Remember Hasek in the 90's? Now he is just average in today's numbers. Or putting numbers on Patrick Roy in the playoffs, it doesn't work but there has never been a better playoff goalie.

Luongo has a career .919 SV%!  Out of the big name hall of fame goalies, only Hasek has a better one at .922. 

 

Lundqvist has had great years and is considered a top goalie and his career SV % is ,921.  Price's is .920 so far in his career.  These numbers are what are considered great for long careers.  Luongo maintaining that SV % while playing all these years and still going and climbing up the all-time wins list is superb.  He will be 4th all time very soon!

[Westcoasting]

1 minute ago, JV77 said:

Luongo has a career .919 SV%!  Out of the big name hall of fame goalies, only Hasek has a better one at .922. 

 

Lundqvist has had great years and is considered a top goalie and his career SV % is ,921.  Price's is .920 so far in his career.  These numbers are what are considered great for careers.  Luongo maintaining that SV % while playing all these years and still going and climbing up the all-time wins list is superb.

Oh ok so Cory Schneider is the greatest goalie ever! lol see how numbers don't work. What all about all the other goalies over time how do you rank them in with their lower save percentage? Or do you have tunnel vision and only see the goalies in the last ten years to be the best?

[wai_lai416]

12 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

And so with these facts he gets into the HOF? Here are the inductees from the last 30 years...

Dominic Hasek

6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, 2 Harts, 3 Jennings, 6 first team all star selections and 2 Stanley cups

Ed Belfour

1 Calder, 2 Vezinas, 4 Jennings, 2 first team all star selections and 1 Stanley cup

Patrick Roy 

3 Vezinas, 5 Jennings, 3 Conn Smythes, 4 first team all star selections and 4 Stanley Cups

Grant Fuhr 

1 Jennings, 1 Vezina, 1first team all star selection, and 5 Stanley Cups

Billy Smith

1 Vezina, 1 Jennings, 1 conn Smythe, 1 first team all star selection and 4 Stanley Cups

 

Roberto Luongo

1 Jennings               see the difference? So you really think someone will put him in this same class of goalies?? He is more like Joseph than any of these goalies!

i said absolutely nothing about Luongo is a sure bet in the HOF nor anything about HOF but comparing Luongo to Cujo is a joke when his stats are not even comparable other than wins.. and Luongo prolly have a Vezina if he wasn't playing against the luck of probably the greatest of all time Brodeur.. and some can argue he probably deserves the Vezina over him in that 47 win season playing for a team that was suppose to miss the playoff.. lol u put Grant Fuhr in the same class as Roy Hasek Belfour and Brodeur.. what a joke.. u stick him on any other team other than the oilers he'll end his career with 0 cups.. likewise u stick any goalie in that oiler team likely they'll end up with the same amount of cups. Fuhr is an average goalie at best that rode the coat tail of Gretzky.. 

 

you konw why the list of goalie in the hall of fame is so short?? have u considered there's only 30 starting goalies in the league vs 540 skaters? how many goalies retired in the last 20 years that's even considered good? the last good goalie to retire was brodeur.. and before that? Roy? Hasek? so i guess if u have stanley cups you are a HOF by ur standard.. Corey Crawford and MA Fleury, and Jonathan Quick are all sure fire HOF coz they each have won 1-2 cups?

 

you put goalies in different class based on awards.. what a joke... i guess Niemi Crawford Ward Fleury are currently in a class above Price too coz they all have a cup despite being a good goalie at best

[JV77]

1 hour ago, Westcoasting said:

Oh ok so Cory Schneider is the greatest goalie ever! lol see how numbers don't work. What all about all the other goalies over time how do you rank them in with their lower save percentage? Or do you have tunnel vision and only see the goalies in the last ten years to be the best?

No because he hasn't a long career yet like those guys and top 5 wins all time!  Combination of Wins, games played, SV%, GAA is what a lot of hall of fame goalies have.

 

Luongo is one the most durable and consistent goalies of all time.  Mind you he is still playing great and is still a number 1 goalie on a his team, and a top goalie in the league.

[Twilight Sparkle]

On 2016-11-16 at 1:20 PM, Captain Azzy said:

Olympic gold though.

and wetcoasting starts grasping at straws XD this thread is funny

[Guest]

Down Goes Brown re-did the NHL Awards using the MLB method - ie, both Eastern AND Western Conferences get to choose an award winner each - meaning that Luongo, under that method, would have won a Vezina in 2007, as well as a Hart Trophy.

 

It's easy to forget that for a five-year period, he and Brodeur were unrivalled in their excellence. Like Carey Price today, like Hasek before and Sawchuk in days gone by. Elite goalies of their era make the Hall. It's why CuJo and Osgood aren't in. But Luongo will be, even if not a 1st ballot guy.

 

In fact, let's look at when he's likely to be eligible. Assuming he sees out his contract, he'd retire in 2022. Eligible for induction in 2025.

 

Depending on who retires when - let's use an average of age 36 for retirement, the most common age for retirement according to QuantHockey - players eligible to be first balloters include:

 

If retired at age 36: Evgeni Malkin, David Krejci, Blake Wheeler, Keith Yandle, Jonathan Quick, Ben Bishop and Cory Schneider

If retired at age 37: Alex Ovechkin, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, Jeff Carter, Paul Stastny, Shea Weber, Brent Burns, Ryan Suter and Brent Seabrook.

If retired at age 38: Marc-Andre Fleury, Cam Ward, Jimmy Howard, Corey Crawford, Eric Staal, Rick Nash, Thomas Vanek, Zach Parise and Ryan Kesler.

 

If those players all retire at those exact ages - unlikely as that may be - the only 100% first balloter is Alex Ovechkin. Possible contenders would be Corey Perry/Ryan Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron (likely), Shea Weber and Marc-Andre Fleury. Luongo will definitely be in this section - close calls for a 1st time ballot entry.

 

And finally, the criteria for inclusion in the Player category is as follows:

 

Quote

Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.

Luongo not only ticks all of those boxes - unlike, say, Chris Osgood - but far surpasses them. He's a shoe-in, even if not 1st time.

[Westcoasting]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i said absolutely nothing about Luongo is a sure bet in the HOF nor anything about HOF but comparing Luongo to Cujo is a joke when his stats are not even comparable other than wins.. and Luongo prolly have a Vezina if he wasn't playing against the luck of probably the greatest of all time Brodeur.. and some can argue he probably deserves the Vezina over him in that 47 win season playing for a team that was suppose to miss the playoff.. lol u put Grant Fuhr in the same class as Roy Hasek Belfour and Brodeur.. what a joke.. u stick him on any other team other than the oilers he'll end his career with 0 cups.. likewise u stick any goalie in that oiler team likely they'll end up with the same amount of cups. Fuhr is an average goalie at best that rode the coat tail of Gretzky.. 

 

you konw why the list of goalie in the hall of fame is so short?? have u considered there's only 30 starting goalies in the league vs 540 skaters? how many goalies retired in the last 20 years that's even considered good? the last good goalie to retire was brodeur.. and before that? Roy? Hasek? so i guess if u have stanley cups you are a HOF by ur standard.. Corey Crawford and MA Fleury, and Jonathan Quick are all sure fire HOF coz they each have won 1-2 cups?

 

you put goalies in different class based on awards.. what a joke... i guess Niemi Crawford Ward Fleury are currently in a class above Price too coz they all have a cup despite being a good goalie at best

lol you don't read well when you are flustered do you? I didn't put Fuhr anywhere, that is the where the HOF put him with the others. Why is Fuhr there and not others? lol none of us really know but you would have to think it's because of Stanley Cups. If Fuhr is in there because of things other than Stanley Cups and a Vezina, then why isn't there other goalies of that generation in there? 

[Westcoasting]

10 hours ago, JV77 said:

No because he hasn't a long career yet like those guys and top 5 wins all time!  Combination of Wins, games played, SV%, GAA is what a lot of hall of fame goalies have.

 

Luongo is one the most durable and consistent goalies of all time.  Mind you he is still playing great and is still a number 1 goalie on a his team, and a top goalie in the league.

It's nice to think that way but in reality it hasn't been that way. Maybe things will change...

[Westcoasting]

5 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

and wetcoasting starts grasping at straws XD this thread is funny

lol no i'm not grasping at anything, i just think the HOF voting is really messed up when it comes to goalies.