Vancouver-Arizona (Forsberg did it)

[Warhippy]

9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don't know much about Mayo so I can't really comment on him. I think OEL has an extremely high ceiling and he give us a stud D to build around.  I guess it depends exactly where their pick would be I guess, If it's 6-10 then I want OEL, if it's 3-5 then Mayo is fine.  That still gives us a chance to draft Chychrun as our future D. 

MY theory and what people aren't keying in to is Matthews is a franchise center which is great at this stage of his development.  But with the Arizona pick there is also Jost from the Vees who is tearing up the BC hockey league as the stand out center and then Fabbro who is doing the same as an RHD.

 

Added those two picks next year and I see us being able to draft a center if we take Mayo and net our RHD and Center in one shot plus do the same again next year.  Hell we might even have enough assets to get both Fabbro and Jost and keep them in BC this year if we're smart leaving us 2 firsts next year as well

[Tyndall2]

Tanev needs to toughen up his game.  No forward fears him in the corners or in front of the net.  In fact no forwards fear any of the Canucks defensemen.  

[Toews]

It's not a bad offer. I do think Matthews would command a huge package. If you do consider the Coyotes as a partner though you have to examine what they already have in the pipeline. Domi, Duclair, Perlini, Strome, Dvorak. Their future forward core is already set. Strome looks like the big #1C they desperately need. Dvorak who is looking fantastic could quite possibly end up as #2C. Are the Coyotes going to gut their future for a player they might not even need? Yes he is from Arizona but there other things to consider. 

Who knows how long the Coyotes are even going to stay in Arizona? Their future in Glendale is looking bleak, there are no viable arenas in downtown Phoenix which can even be a temporary home. There could be interest in building a new arena to house both the Suns and Coyotes but it likely won't be ready in time to save the team. So you could gut your future for one local superstar only to then move to Seattle or Quebec.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

MY theory and what people aren't keying in to is Matthews is a franchise center which is great at this stage of his development.  But with the Arizona pick there is also Jost from the Vees who is tearing up the BC hockey league as the stand out center and then Fabbro who is doing the same as an RHD.

 

Added those two picks next year and I see us being able to draft a center if we take Mayo and net our RHD and Center in one shot plus do the same again next year.  Hell we might even have enough assets to get both Fabbro and Jost and keep them in BC this year if we're smart leaving us 2 firsts next year as well

I completely agree, Matthews is good, great and sure star in the league, He’s a hard player to think about trading, but does Matthews alone help our team out more than a bundle of top young talent.

Is Matthews really better than Domi +Chychrun + 2017 (11-20 draft pick).

The only thing I think is, what the package coming back for us, centers around.  Is Domi the center piece? Is it the draft pick? In my opinion it has to be a sure thing,  If it’s a draft pick, then it needs to be a top 5 and one of Puljujärvi/Chychrun.  Outside of that, draft picks are too risky.  Nothing would be worse than giving up Matthews and having our center piece draft pick bust or only reach Turris level (another good BCHLer). And yes Turris is a good NHL player but not exactly the return we would be banking on.

So in my mind if the center piece isn’t going to be a top 5 pick (Puljujärvi/Chychrun), than I want Oliver Ekman Larsson. 

 

If you remember, the FLA first round pick in 2014 (Ekblad)

A rumoured offer was, No. 8 overall pick, forward Nazem Kadri and defenseman Jake Gardiner and it was still turned down

Remember in 2014 Gardiner was (a former 17^th overall) 23 year old coming off his second 30+ point NHL campaign, Kadri (a former 7^th overall )another 23 year old, just came off a 20 goal 50 point campaign and a PPG the year prior, and the 8^th overall ended up being Nylander. That was just for the 1^st overall pick

 So comparing

Kadri is your Domi

Gardiner is your 2017 pick

Nylander is your (6-10) 2016 pick

 So if were adding another big piece like an Edler/Tanev + 2nd round + Brisebrios and you add that Matthews is more hyped and local.  Than I don’t think  OEL would be out of the question.

 So in the end it’s still

Edler + 2nd round + Brisebrios + Matthews (1^st)

For

OEL + Domi + Fabbro (8^th) + 2017 (11-20)

[khay]

15 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Lindros was the only Lindros, Matthews is the only Matthews.  every year we have the 1st overall pick compared to Gretzky, Lindros, Lemieux,  Crosby.

 

Never pans out.

 

Asking for that much from a player like Arizona won't work, a team on the bubble though maybe...but less of a quality return.

 

Arizona is the ask because they have exactly what we want in a rebuild in ages and periods of development that fit us now, next season and in 2 and 3 seasons respectively.  

 

Without breaking the proverbial bank.  And as you said, we can ask for Lindros return...but as you say, he's nothing special, so be realistic eh 

Yeah, all I'm saying is that greater the hype, more we can get back for the guy. Remember the hype surrounding McDavid? He is supposed to be better than Crosby. As you said, most of these labels never pan out but greater the hype, greater the return.

What's the hype? Is Matthews going to be better than Crosby? or just merely a Modano? (I use the word merely in a wrong way just to make a point because Modano is a great player).

I kind of like the idea of trading Matthews if we had him but only if trading him allows us to strengthen our defence in a way that would otherwise take 3 to 5 years to do.

In the package you suggested, we get two first rounds and a defence prospect, none of which are guarantees for a stud defenceman like Doughty, Keith, Karlsson etc. And yet, we give up Tanev, which means we might make already weak defence even worse. 

That's why I think we need to have at least OEL coming our way just to ensure that we get one bonafide offensive defenceman coming back our way in case Mayo doesn't turn out as great and/or the defenceman that we pick using the two firsts don't turn out as great. 

So if we get, 2 firsts, Domi, and OEL, then I would definitely do this trade. If we get 2016 first, Domi, OEL, and Mayo (or any good defence prospect, frankly, I don't know much about Mayo), I would probably still do it.

If you are worried that we are asking for too great of a return with the inclusion of OEL, then obviously you do not think too highly of Matthews and Arizona probably won't do the trade. I mean if a fan is not that hyped up about a player, then the NHL teams definitely aren't going to be more hyped up about the player than a fan.

 

[Warhippy]

On 12/17/2015 at 9:19 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I completely agree, Matthews is good, great and sure star in the league, He’s a hard player to think about trading, but does Matthews alone help our team out more than a bundle of top young talent.

Is Matthews really better than Domi +Chychrun + 2017 (11-20 draft pick).

The only thing I think is, what the package coming back for us, centers around.  Is Domi the center piece? Is it the draft pick? In my opinion it has to be a sure thing,  If it’s a draft pick, then it needs to be a top 5 and one of Puljujärvi/Chychrun.  Outside of that, draft picks are too risky.  Nothing would be worse than giving up Matthews and having our center piece draft pick bust or only reach Turris level (another good BCHLer). And yes Turris is a good NHL player but not exactly the return we would be banking on.

So in my mind if the center piece isn’t going to be a top 5 pick (Puljujärvi/Chychrun), than I want Oliver Ekman Larsson. 

 

If you remember, the FLA first round pick in 2014 (Ekblad)

A rumoured offer was, No. 8 overall pick, forward Nazem Kadri and defenseman Jake Gardiner and it was still turned down

Remember in 2014 Gardiner was (a former 17^th overall) 23 year old coming off his second 30+ point NHL campaign, Kadri (a former 7^th overall )another 23 year old, just came off a 20 goal 50 point campaign and a PPG the year prior, and the 8^th overall ended up being Nylander. That was just for the 1^st overall pick

 So comparing

Kadri is your Domi

Gardiner is your 2017 pick

Nylander is your (6-10) 2016 pick

 So if were adding another big piece like an Edler/Tanev + 2nd round + Brisebrios and you add that Matthews is more hyped and local.  Than I don’t think  OEL would be out of the question.

 So in the end it’s still

Edler + 2nd round + Brisebrios + Matthews (1^st)

For

OEL + Domi + Fabbro (8^th) + 2017 (11-20)

I cannot argue any of that.  For me though is the question of whether they'd really give up OEL in that trade.  I know they'd be wondering about cap etc and I'd ask for him and settle with mayo but it's a huge ask is all

[Warhippy]

On 12/17/2015 at 11:54 AM, khay said:

Yeah, all I'm saying is that greater the hype, more we can get back for the guy. Remember the hype surrounding McDavid? He is supposed to be better than Crosby. As you said, most of these labels never pan out but greater the hype, greater the return.

What's the hype? Is Matthews going to be better than Crosby? or just merely a Modano? (I use the word merely in a wrong way just to make a point because Modano is a great player).

I kind of like the idea of trading Matthews if we had him but only if trading him allows us to strengthen our defence in a way that would otherwise take 3 to 5 years to do.

In the package you suggested, we get two first rounds and a defence prospect, none of which are guarantees for a stud defenceman like Doughty, Keith, Karlsson etc. And yet, we give up Tanev, which means we might make already weak defence even worse. 

That's why I think we need to have at least OEL coming our way just to ensure that we get one bonafide offensive defenceman coming back our way in case Mayo doesn't turn out as great and/or the defenceman that we pick using the two firsts don't turn out as great. 

So if we get, 2 firsts, Domi, and OEL, then I would definitely do this trade. If we get 2016 first, Domi, OEL, and Mayo (or any good defence prospect, frankly, I don't know much about Mayo), I would probably still do it.

If you are worried that we are asking for too great of a return with the inclusion of OEL, then obviously you do not think too highly of Matthews and Arizona probably won't do the trade. I mean if a fan is not that hyped up about a player, then the NHL teams definitely aren't going to be more hyped up about the player than a fan.

 

Now the thing is, as per your first sentence.  There's no guarantee any of them ever pan out.

 

Domi has proven to be a winner at every level thus far though.  Mayo has proven to be a stud at his current level.  The 2 extra 1sts give us the opportunity to pick our poison in the top 10 which would be a near 50/50 shot at an NHL player, and the 3rd gives us another chance.

 

Benning is supposed to be a scouting and drafting stud.  I'd like to see how he could do with 2 quality chances and 1 solid chance at stars vs 1 single chance.

 

The only reason I consider not asking for OEL at all is they might see him being better value elsewhere, returning those 1sts or prospects they need to build in to the future.

 

I'd ask, but I'd settle for Mayo as well

[Kaner]

If we're trading Matthews, I'd want OEL coming back our way. 

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, SwedeHockey said:

If we're trading Matthews, I'd want OEL coming back our way. 

And that's a fair ask for him and Edler/Tanev.

 

But so would be Mayo