Vancouver-Arizona (Forsberg did it)

[Warhippy]

OK.  Saw a trade thought the other day with a lot of what ifs hinging on it.  But the thought behind it and the value was actually pretty solid for various reasons for both clubs.

 

So I tweaked it just a shade and here it is, all depending on Vancouver winning the lottery and the 1st overall.

 

[Remember, hypothetical and completely a what if, see it from both teams' perspectives]

 

Vancouver Trades:  1st overall pick/Auston Matthews, Chris Tanev and Niklas Jensen

 

Arizona Trades:  2016 1st round pick, 2017 1st round pick. Max Domi, Dysin Mayo, 2017 3rd round pick

 

OK, before everyone jumps up and says "of course Vancouver does it why would Arizona though" understand the variables.

Arizona has been, like Nashville; looking for that #1 center their entire existence.  Arizona is mired in over a decade of monetary losses without an end in sight desperate to sell merch and tickets to stem that.  Auston Matthews is from Scottsdale Arizona and is the highest touted American prospect since Modano.  This kid could turn the fortunes of this place around much like us drafting a Sakic or Neidermeyer could have us in the same regard.

 

A hometown hero franchise defining player to rally behind.

 

The initial proposal had Arizona trading Oliver Ekman Larsson as well but I just don't see it.  Dysin Mayo is a Victoria boy, RHD and would fit our rebuild as well.

 

So, before you go and say "trading the best player never works" just think.  The last star centers that were drafted in the top spot that were traded were Thornton and Lindros.  Before them Gretzky.  none of them went on to win a cup after their trade.  Seguin just got traded, he might win a cup with the Stars who knows.  Point I am making is 1 player does not win a cup (unless his name is Roy and he wears a Habs uniform)

 

The return for us being Domi, our new stud LW with existing chemistry with Horvat on a London team that knew how to win.  Dysin Mayo, our future top 4 RHD, Arizona's 1st this year which will be top 10 allowing us to draft BPA, Arizona's pick next year which could easily be top 10 again allowing us to draft BPA and our own pick, which barring drastic change in the off season could be top 10 as well.

 

The original proposal hit on every key level for both teams allowing them both to grow their markets and teams together.

 

For comparison, here are the returns for the Lindros/Seguin and Thornton trades.

 

Thornton:  Sturm, Stuart, Primeau, which via trade turned in to Ference and Kobasew and a cup 5 and 1/2 years later

Lindros:  Duchesne, Forsberg, Hextall, Huffman, Ricchi, 1993 1st round pick, 1994 1st round pick, and $15 million cash

Seguin (Button and Peverley):  Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser

 

** In the Thornton and Seguin trade, young stud prospects were being traded as were well established star veterans as neither team desired picks.

 

[Gstank29]

That trades leaves our defence even weaker than it is, and I rather have Matthews

[Edlerberry]

or we have boeser play with matthews and we have a legit top line of tomorrow

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

That trades leaves our defence even weaker than it is, and I rather have Matthews

Nothing a nice free agent signing can't cure, and it's all about building for the future not the now.

[c00kies]

Is that a first overall pick AND Matthews? How do you get both?

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Edlerberry said:

or we have boeser play with matthews and we have a legit top line of tomorrow

Unless Boeser decides to finish college in which case we're 3 years away.  Where as Domi/Horvat becomes our 2nd line or elite 3rd immediately

 

I struggled with this because the best player usually dictates who won the trade; but if we're really building for the future.  Adding 2 top 10 or better picks, 1 Domi and 1 solid RHD plus the 3rd propels us leagues ahead of where we are now even with Matthews.

[Gstank29]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Nothing a nice free agent signing can't cure, and it's all about building for the future not the now.

Tanev is the future, Edler on the other hand......

Just another thing to consider is what is going to happen with all our vets? IMO our winger depth (for prospects) is probably the best in the NHL

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, c00kies said:

Is that a first overall pick AND Matthews? How do you get both?

Just caught that, thanks fixed

[shiznak]

I had a similar trade that I posted in another thread, but it involves Columbus.

To Columbus: First overall pick and Tanev.

To Vancouver: Johansen, Murray, and Rychel.

Columbus gets the first two picks, drafts Matthews and one of Chychrun, Puljujarvi, or Tkachuk. Vancouver gets a young number one centermen to replace Hank, a stud defensemen, and a potential goal scoring power forward.

[Warhippy]

Just now, shiznak said:

I had a similar trade that I posted in another thread, but it involves Columbus.

To Columbus: First overall pick and Tanev.

To Vancouver: Johansen, Murray, and Rychel.

Columbus gets the first two picks, drafts Matthews and one of Chychrun, Puljujarvi, or Tkachuk. Vancouver gets a young number one centermen to replace Hank, a stud defensemen, and a potential goal scoring power forward.

That's actually really good too.  Helps along the same lines.  The reason it seems so viable for Arizona to give up so much is that home town boy feeling and franchise defining center.  Both damned attractive though

[Gyllenhaal]

If we actually got Matthews I would be pissed if Benning traded him. He is a franchise player, no doubt about it.

But as for the proposal I like it and it makes sense. Only thing I would change is instead of the 2017 first and Mayo, we try to get Connor Murphy.

 

Vancouver Trades:  Auston Matthews, Chris Tanev and Niklas Jensen

Arizona Trades:  2016 1st round pick, Max Domi, Connor Murphy, 2017 3rd round pick.

 

If Arizona makes the playoffs this year then maybe they would do it...

[Warhippy]

Just now, Gyllenhaal said:

If we actually got Matthews I would be pissed if Benning traded him. He is a franchise player, no doubt about it.

But as for the proposal I like it and it makes sense. Only thing I would change is instead of the 2017 first and Mayo, we try to get Connor Murphy.

 

Vancouver Trades:  Auston Matthews, Chris Tanev and Niklas Jensen

Arizona Trades:  2016 1st round pick, Max Domi, Connor Murphy, 2017 3rd round pick.

 

If Arizona makes the playoffs this year then maybe they would do it...

Smith is out up to 10 weeks.  No playoffs.  The 2017 is essential for our rebuild and Dysin Murphy is a large reason that Edmonton was in the memorial cup hunt for a season or two

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Matthews > Domi, I'd rather keep Matthews and Tanev unless there's potential for a superstar defenceman like Ekblad etc.

For example, I'd be willing to do something like Matthews + Tanev for Ekblad + Barkov + 1st

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

I had a similar trade that I posted in another thread, but it involves Columbus.

To Columbus: First overall pick and Tanev.

To Vancouver: Johansen, Murray, and Rychel.

Columbus gets the first two picks, drafts Matthews and one of Chychrun, Puljujarvi, or Tkachuk. Vancouver gets a young number one centermen to replace Hank, a stud defensemen, and a potential goal scoring power forward.

That's a pretty tasty proposal for many to chew on.

Lots to like from both sides.

Would CBJ have to add(a touch more) due to Matthews' hoopla? That, & RyJo might not really want to sign there(spec)? Perhaps toss in a 2nd, & take Cheezybear??

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I like it...

Vancouver Trades:  1st overall pick(Auston Matthews), Alex Edler, CBJ 2nd round picks, Brisebrios

Arizona Trades:  2016 1st round pick, Oliver ekman-larsson. Max Domi, 2017 1st round pick (conditional that i is outside the top 10, if not they can defer it to 2018 first round)

 

Arizona is loaded with young prospects.  Even after trading Domi they'd still have, Duclair, Strome, Samualsson, Merkley, now you add in a young Brisebrios, and 2nd round pick and a Local generational type player in Matthews, who's going to sell seats in that building.  Edler helps that team remain competitive with the loss of OEL.  ARZ's managment didn't rule out trading OEL last trade deadline if the price was right.  Matthews is obviously the right price.  The then have an amazing 1-2 punch down the middle with Matthews-Strome to build around.

Canucks get a young #1 D to build around.  An stud winger in Domi (who's also got chemistry with Horvat), a likely top 5 pick (Puljujarvi/Tkachuk/Chychrun) even if it's top 10 we'd still end up with a Fabbro. and an extra first round pick in 2017/18.

 

[khay]

2 hours ago, Gstank29 said:

That trades leaves our defence even weaker than it is, and I rather have Matthews

I agree with this comment. We need at least OEL coming our way. 

And even if he is that good, the only way I would trade him is if we get what Lindros fetched. In other words, we get Forsberg+++.

But, if all Matthews is is the best American player since Modano, then he is great but not going to fetch us what Lindros fetched. Lindros was touted to be the best player since Lemieux and with some luck, could have very well have reached Lemieux level. He was a light version of Lemieux to say the least. 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, khay said:

I agree with this comment. We need at least OEL coming our way. 

And even if he is that good, the only way I would trade him is if we get what Lindros fetched. In other words, we get Forsberg+++.

But, if all Matthews is is the best American player since Modano, then he is great but not going to fetch us what Lindros fetched. Lindros was touted to be the best player since Lemieux and with some luck, could have very well have reached Lemieux level. He was a light version of Lemieux to say the least. 

Lindros was the only Lindros, Matthews is the only Matthews.  every year we have the 1st overall pick compared to Gretzky, Lindros, Lemieux,  Crosby.

 

Never pans out.

 

Asking for that much from a player like Arizona won't work, a team on the bubble though maybe...but less of a quality return.

 

Arizona is the ask because they have exactly what we want in a rebuild in ages and periods of development that fit us now, next season and in 2 and 3 seasons respectively.  

 

Without breaking the proverbial bank.  And as you said, we can ask for Lindros return...but as you say, he's nothing special, so be realistic eh 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I like it...

Vancouver Trades:  1st overall pick(Auston Matthews), Alex Edler, CBJ 2nd round picks, Brisebrios

Arizona Trades:  2016 1st round pick, Oliver ekman-larsson. Max Domi, 2017 1st round pick (conditional that i is outside the top 10, if not they can defer it to 2018 first round)

 

Arizona is loaded with young prospects.  Even after trading Domi they'd still have, Duclair, Strome, Samualsson, Merkley, now you add in a young Brisebrios, and 2nd round pick and a Local generational type player in Matthews, who's going to sell seats in that building.  Edler helps that team remain competitive with the loss of OEL.  ARZ's managment didn't rule out trading OEL last trade deadline if the price was right.  Matthews is obviously the right price.  The then have an amazing 1-2 punch down the middle with Matthews-Strome to build around.

Canucks get a young #1 D to build around.  An stud winger in Domi (who's also got chemistry with Horvat), a likely top 5 pick (Puljujarvi/Tkachuk/Chychrun) even if it's top 10 we'd still end up with a Fabbro. and an extra first round pick in 2017/18.

 

The reason I look at Dysin Mayo is return.  For us; he is more viable in the long term.  OEL is a huge return no question but I don't see him being better in the long run due to cap and contract restraints and knowing his ceiling is most likely already in sight.

 

Dysin Mayo though is a 6 foot 1, 192 pound Right Handed defender from Victoria BC born in 96.  He fits our rebuild much better and since knowing we're rebuilding I am now also considering the ability to draft and develop proper D men at the size, and with the abilities we want instead of trading for them.  We could be looking at 5 years of successive D men coming in via the draft drafted and developed by us barring Mayo who only expedites that.

 

I really think though with the OEL ask it's a shade to much, because if Arizona has no problem trading him, they could garner a far more lucrative return for him the following trade deadline while still gaining their prize in Matthews.  Added for them keeping OEL and adding one of Tanev or Edler on a floundering team gives them the ability to try and force a playoff push with that differed 2017 conditional you spoke of

[ForsbergTheGreat]

36 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The reason I look at Dysin Mayo is return.  For us; he is more viable in the long term.  OEL is a huge return no question but I don't see him being better in the long run due to cap and contract restraints and knowing his ceiling is most likely already in sight.

 

Dysin Mayo though is a 6 foot 1, 192 pound Right Handed defender from Victoria BC born in 96.  He fits our rebuild much better and since knowing we're rebuilding I am now also considering the ability to draft and develop proper D men at the size, and with the abilities we want instead of trading for them.  We could be looking at 5 years of successive D men coming in via the draft drafted and developed by us barring Mayo who only expedites that.

 

I really think though with the OEL ask it's a shade to much, because if Arizona has no problem trading him, they could garner a far more lucrative return for him the following trade deadline while still gaining their prize in Matthews.  Added for them keeping OEL and adding one of Tanev or Edler on a floundering team gives them the ability to try and force a playoff push with that differed 2017 conditional you spoke of

I don't know much about Mayo so I can't really comment on him. I think OEL has an extremely high ceiling and he give us a stud D to build around.  I guess it depends exactly where their pick would be I guess, If it's 6-10 then I want OEL, if it's 3-5 then Mayo is fine.  That still gives us a chance to draft Chychrun as our future D. 

[messier's_elbow]

My proposal In Another thread was that if we selected Mathews we would flip him for a 2016 first, Domi and OEL. We would have a top Dman finally and Edler can play second fiddle and get the spotlight off him. I'd be more then ok with keeping Mathews and putting him with Boeser in the future.