[Value Discussion] Bobby Ryan

[Monty]

Just like a lot of people have said, I like the idea of having Bobby Ryan. I don't, however, like the idea of having his salary at his decreasing production.

 

He just turned 29, and we all know that forwards at his age have passed their peak years and, at best, will slowly start to see a drop in production. At worst, we will see a massive drop off. Now, Ryan is a solid talent, so he'll likely see a slower drop in production, but it will drop. And since he's only topped 70 points once, I think the likelihood that he'll turn into a 70-80 point player when he's north of 30 is slim to none. I like him, but at $7.25M cap hit for the next 6 years? No thank you.

[Where'd Luongo?]

14 minutes ago, Monty said:

Just like a lot of people have said, I like the idea of having Bobby Ryan. I don't, however, like the idea of having his salary at his decreasing production.

 

He just turned 29, and we all know that forwards at his age have passed their peak years and, at best, will slowly start to see a drop in production. At worst, we will see a massive drop off. Now, Ryan is a solid talent, so he'll likely see a slower drop in production, but it will drop. And since he's only topped 70 points once, I think the likelihood that he'll turn into a 70-80 point player when he's north of 30 is slim to none. I like him, but at $7.25M cap hit for the next 6 years? No thank you.

Exactly.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

 

Here

I'd go and get your eyes tested then. I said he'd be elsewhere, not moved. As in, Utica.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Then you best hit the pee pee pot champ...

 

Cause next season Vey's going  to have you in stitches 

 

#VeyArmy4life

Yawn. Try harder. It's comments like this that get threads closed.

[Where'd Luongo?]

5 hours ago, Captain Woodget said:

I'd go and get your eyes tested then. I said he'd be elsewhere, not moved. As in, Utica.

Elsewhere can mean literally anywhere else. Hence the term. Next time you are talking about a specific location, try using it instead if using a vague term that is highly unlikely to be regarded as such.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Elsewhere can mean literally anywhere else. Hence the term. Next time you are talking about a specific location, try using it instead if using a vague term that is highly unlikely to be regarded as such.

Rather than list where every piece of flotsam and jetsam was going to be traded to / sent down to, it was easier to put them all in a 'elsewhere' section.

 

Regardless, McCann doesn't have a place on the roster next season and you still think Linden Vey is a better 2RW than Okposo or Doan. I'd say we're up a certain creek without a paddle if we look at this team through your eyes.

[hammertime]

He's paid way too much for what he brings. 

[SaintPatrick33]

On 4/13/2016 at 6:28 AM, Monty said:

Just like a lot of people have said, I like the idea of having Bobby Ryan. I don't, however, like the idea of having his salary at his decreasing production.

 

He just turned 29, and we all know that forwards at his age have passed their peak years and, at best, will slowly start to see a drop in production. At worst, we will see a massive drop off. Now, Ryan is a solid talent, so he'll likely see a slower drop in production, but it will drop. And since he's only topped 70 points once, I think the likelihood that he'll turn into a 70-80 point player when he's north of 30 is slim to none. I like him, but at $7.25M cap hit for the next 6 years? No thank you.

 

That cap hit is massive for a guy who doesnt produce "elite" numbers. He is exciting and has as much skill as anyone, but he also tends to lose his confidence for long stretches. At 5 mill maybe, but with that term and money remaining, he would be a cap killer for years to come. 

[Z Hockey]

On April 12, 2016 at 2:41 AM, Captain Woodget said:

I have always liked Bobby Ryan's game. He's consistent, a threat, and I think with a quality center he'd be a guaranteed 30goal scorer, likely 70pts too.

 

With any trade or acquisition of a top 6 forward this summer, we need to see how the draft lottery pans out. If we're looking at a top 3 selection, Matthews/Laine/Puljujarvi will all walk straight into a top 6 spot in 16/17, negating the need for a Ryan-type player. If, however, we're selecting 4th or lower, we're looking at picking a Chychrun/Juolevi/Bean, which means there's options to add a body in the top 6.

 

Looking at our team for next season:

 

Daniel-Henrik-Hansen

Baertschi-Sutter-???

Etem-Horvat-Rodin

Burrows-Granlund-Dorsett

Gaunce

 

I can see Vey, McCann, Higgins, Vrbata, Virtanen, Kenins and Zalewski all being elsewhere. We'll carry 8 D-men again, with Pedan playing forward in an emergency, meaning it's 13 forwards. Assuming Rodin secures a spot from camp, we're looking at a 2RW being needed.

 

Options this summer for acquiring a 2RW:

 

Bobby Ryan - trade - would need to include McCann or Virtanen most likely

Kyle Okposo - UFA - would need to pay $6m+ for him

Shane Doan - UFA - unlikely he leaves the Yotes, with his family considerations. Plus he turned us down once before. $4m minimum needed too

Loui Eriksson - UFA - would need long-term commitment (taking him past the Sedins), plus around $6m

PA Parenteau - UFA - potential low-cost option, hit 20 goals on a terrible Leafs team

Dale Weise - UFA - could play 3RW, allowing Rodin to move up

Drake Caggiula - UFA - could give him a season at 2RW before Boeser joins the team, allowing him to move back to C/LW. Not sure this would be a good move

 

I'd move heaven and earth for one of Okposo / Eriksson (preferably Okposo), and if not, acquire PAP or Weise.

So move our only other center besides Horvat with No.1 C upside in McCann. Trade a skilled, nasty, and sharp shooting 19 year old in Virtanen with No. 1 RW upside. And replace them with basically older and far far more expensive versions of themselves... 

 

How about trade for a top six forward to contend  with now and someone who can be a stop gap, and then spend that 5-6 Mil on a top end D man to compete now with. (Yandle, B.Campbell, Vatanen, Goligoski, Russell)

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Z Hockey said:

So move our only other center besides Horvat with No.1 C upside in McCann. Trade a skilled, nasty, and sharp shooting 19 year old in Virtanen with No. 1 RW upside. And replace them with basically older and far far more expensive versions of themselves... 

 

How about trade for a top six forward to contend  with now and someone who can be a stop gap, and then spend that 5-6 Mil on a top end D man to compete now with. (Yandle, B.Campbell, Vatanen, Goligoski, Russell)

Another person who can't be bothered to read previous posts before criticizing someone...good old CDC.

 

I have clearly stated that in my scenario, both McCann and Virtanen are in Utica for the season. McCann needs to bulk up, play more minutes, in all situations. He can't do that at NHL level so he must needs take the lead in Utica under Travis Green's tutelage. Virtanen has shown only glimpses of his skill, nastiness and sharp shooting - he needs to hone those skills in Utica and come back the season after ready for the big league. And yes, Okposo is older and more expensive. He also has 356 career points more than Virtanen, has playoff experience, and is a perfect fit for the Western Conference. All while coming into his prime years.

 

How would we acquire a top 6 forward without adding significant cap, thus precluding the addition of a $5m-$6m D man? Which would be Campbell, Goligoski or Russell, as Yandle will get far more and Vatanen will be re-signed. Which top 6 forward do you propose to add? And what assets will be lose to acquire this cheap scoring forward? Please do enlighten us all on how you plan to massage the cap. I assume it will be 'trade Miller', which isn't realistic or feasible. But I'd like to see what you actually propose - it's easy to play armchair GM when you can spend as much as you want. Let's see how you propose to add two top-tier players to this roster.

[Alflives]

On April 19, 2016 at 11:36 AM, hammertime said:

He's paid way too much for what he brings. 

Agreed.  Bobby Ryan's salary and term is a Cap concern.  IMHAO, there has always something off about him.  

[Z Hockey]

3 hours ago, Captain Woodget said:

Another person who can't be bothered to read previous posts before criticizing someone...good old CDC.

 

I have clearly stated that in my scenario, both McCann and Virtanen are in Utica for the season. McCann needs to bulk up, play more minutes, in all situations. He can't do that at NHL level so he must needs take the lead in Utica under Travis Green's tutelage. Virtanen has shown only glimpses of his skill, nastiness and sharp shooting - he needs to hone those skills in Utica and come back the season after ready for the big league. And yes, Okposo is older and more expensive. He also has 356 career points more than Virtanen, has playoff experience, and is a perfect fit for the Western Conference. All while coming into his prime years.

 

How would we acquire a top 6 forward without adding significant cap, thus precluding the addition of a $5m-$6m D man? Which would be Campbell, Goligoski or Russell, as Yandle will get far more and Vatanen will be re-signed. Which top 6 forward do you propose to add? And what assets will be lose to acquire this cheap scoring forward? Please do enlighten us all on how you plan to massage the cap. I assume it will be 'trade Miller', which isn't realistic or feasible. But I'd like to see what you actually propose - it's easy to play armchair GM when you can spend as much as you want. Let's see how you propose to add two top-tier players to this roster.

Read my proposal. Also BTW giving

someone like Okposo 5-6 Mil affects us down the road when Horvat, Hutton, & Tryamkin will need to be re-signed in a year and will be due for significant raises.

Especially with the length of the contracts people are proposing. Just because

Virtanen didn't score a ton doesn't mean he didn't show his skill and nastiness a lot.

My proposal also has McCann and Virtanen in Utica.

[Guest]

On 22/04/2016 at 5:47 PM, Z Hockey said:

Read my proposal. Also BTW giving

someone like Okposo 5-6 Mil affects us down the road when Horvat, Hutton, & Tryamkin will need to be re-signed in a year and will be due for significant raises.

Especially with the length of the contracts people are proposing. Just because

Virtanen didn't score a ton doesn't mean he didn't show his skill and nastiness a lot.

My proposal also has McCann and Virtanen in Utica.

Where is your proposal? Please copy and paste here.

 

Giving a UFA $6m now doesn't affect Horvat, Hutton and Tryamkin's deals - there will be a higher cap, and bad contracts such as Higgins, Miller and Burrows will be off the books by then. Benning has the flexibility to go after a top UFA both this year and next, and he needs to do that. We've not been in that position since we acquired Mats Sundin, we need to make the most of the opportunity. We owe it to the Sedins too.

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Captain Woodget said:

Where is your proposal? Please copy and paste here.

 

Giving a UFA $6m now doesn't affect Horvat, Hutton and Tryamkin's deals - there will be a higher cap, and bad contracts such as Higgins, Miller and Burrows will be off the books by then. Benning has the flexibility to go after a top UFA both this year and next, and he needs to do that. We've not been in that position since we acquired Mats Sundin, we need to make the most of the opportunity. We owe it to the Sedins too.

I had us trading Hansen and picks/prospects to move up and draft Laine.

Then signing Yandle, Versteeg, Larsen, 

Lewis (to replace Hansen.) (He also has 2 cups experience), and Gazdic to replace Prusty. Buy-out Higgins, trade Veys rights for a pick, let Hamhuis walk.

Re-sign Baertschi, Etem, Kenins, Pedan, Fedun, B.Jones, Friesen, Grenier, Cannata, Blomstrand

 

Daniel-Henrik-Baertschi

Laine-Horvat-Ma.Granlund

Etem-Sutter-Versteeg

Burrows-Lewis-Dorsett

Rodin

 

B.Hutton-Yandle

Edler-Tanev

Sbisa-Tryamkin

Bartkowski-Larsen/Biega

 

Miller

Markstrom

 

In Utica: McCann, Virtanen, J.Subban,

B.Gaunce, Kenins, Zalewski, Gazdic, M.Stewart, Cassels, Labate, B.Jones, Friesen, Grenier, 

Pedan, Fedun, Cannata, Stecher,

 Blomstrand, McEneny, A.Cederholm, 

Sautner.