ICBC considering raising car insurance premiums by 30 per cent

[Rush17]

9 minutes ago, Toews said:

I do drive. I follow the rules because that's how I was taught how to drive. My parents impressed upon me as I was learning how to drive to pay attention to speed limits, to be alert at all times and to follow all traffic rules. A lot of people don't though, I want to see these people punished for their reckless behavior when they endanger me and everyone they share a road with. I don't really care whether they are rich or poor, I want to see meaningful punishments handed out. The demerit system doesn't do enough to deter them.

 

To the bolded, why have punishments at all then? Might as well remove all the checks, toss the demerit system as well if people aren't concerned with punishment. You know this isn't true, people are concerned with punishment. If they weren't then we wouldn't have things like fines, demerit points and raised premiums. Consequences deter people from committing crimes, it is the same with driving offenses. Rich and poor people alike.

 

Poor people commit offenses for the same reasons rich people commit offenses because there is not enough measures being taken to deter them from doing so. 

 

It is the exorbitant taxes that they charge cigarettes that caused me and a lot of people to quit. Are there people willing to pay that to continue smoking? Of course but there are also people that ended up quitting because they realize that the cost was burning a hole in their wallet. 

 

Suspensions cause you to lose a percentage of your income, thats why they are an effective deterrent. Remember when Prust speared Marchand, he called it 'money well spent' because the 20K fine or so he got was meaningless considering the salary he was making. I believe repeat offenders get suspended now for spearing, fines were clearly not working because the NHLPA refuses to raise fines higher than the standard 20-30K.

i think heavy fines should be around 10% for repeat offenders. Maybe 3% for first timers. 5% for second or third time offenders. ^^ 

 

you dont want to take to much edge out of the game. but we do need to protect the players.

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Is that necessary?  Toews, Philip and Rush and having an actual discussion oh but wait J.R feels left out and needs to post a picture.  Grow up J.R

 

 

No, they're having a discussion, you're posting red herring's. Grow up FTG.

[Rush17]

37 minutes ago, trek said:

What if the punishments were not monetary? I'd think it would be more fair rich or poor if you had multiple offences, the DMV would suspend your license for longer and longer duration. IMO the inconvenience of not being able to drive the car for a period of 1 week/month/6mo/year would be far more deterrent than a $200 fine.

that would be as equal punishment as you can get. yes the super rich can arrange rides but you cant suspend people from taking taxis or limos.

 

that might be an idea.  would scare a lot of people thats for sure.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

I do drive. I follow the rules because that's how I was taught how to drive. My parents impressed upon me as I was learning how to drive to pay attention to speed limits, to be alert at all times and to follow all traffic rules.

If you made a ton more money would you be less likely to follow the rules?

 

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

A lot of people don't though, I want to see these people punished for their reckless behavior when they endanger me and everyone they share a road with. I don't really care whether they are rich or poor, I want to see meaningful punishments handed out. The demerit system doesn't do enough to deter them.

The demerit system takes away their license so they can't drive.  That's the ultimate deterrent.  BC doesn't have the same system as AB. I posted what Alberta does, and it's pretty reasonable. Basically 5 minor or 2 major infractions in a 2 year span and you loose your license. GDL's have even less lenience since they have about half the total demerit points.  It doesn't matter whether you are rich or poor, there is no grey areas.  Each infraction as a demerit penalty associated with it, when you run out, game over.   

[Toews]

14 tickets for them to finally do something about it. Even then the tweet doesn't say if the driver had his/her license revoked. The fines and demerits clearly didn't do enough to deter this driver. Of course 14 is an extreme example but how many are there are with 5-10 tickets for being distracted? These people are the reasons why everyone's premiums are going up. 

 

You can also appeal these tickets, which is what most people do. They get demerit points stricken from their records by showing up for a day in court while the officer who handed out the offense is a no show and just handed in an incident report. The next day they are back on the road doing the same thing as they were doing prior. Its like nothing ever even happened.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

No, they're having a discussion, you're posting red herring's. Grow up FTG.

You're quickly becoming a waste of space in every thread.  Kind of pathetic really. you rarely provide any actual content anymore.  Must be the millennial fault.  .

 

I wonder is @Toewsagrees with you.  Toews are we not having adult discussion?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, Toews said:

14 tickets for them to finally do something about it. Even then the tweet doesn't say if the driver had his/her license revoked. The fines and demerits clearly didn't do enough to deter this driver. Of course 14 is an extreme example but how many are there are with 5-10 tickets for being distracted? These people are the reasons why everyone's premiums are going up. 

 

You can also appeal these tickets, which is what most people do. They get demerit points stricken from their records by showing up for a day in court while the officer who handed out the offense is a no show and just handed in an incident report. The next day they are back on the road doing the same thing as they were doing prior. Its like nothing ever even happened.

Again. BC demerit system is different than Alberta.  I've got a speeding ticket in BC and all i had to do was pay the fine.  Heck the cop was nice enough to knocked the ticket down too. 

[aGENT]

37 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You're quickly becoming a waste of space in every thread.  Kind of pathetic really. you rarely provide any actual content anymore.  Must be the millennial fault.  .

 

I wonder is @Toewsagrees with you.  Toews are we not having adult discussion?

I've already provided plenty of content/discussion in this thread before you and your red herrings showed up. Just because you don't like me pointing out your red herrings is no reason to get pissy. You don't like seeing me point out your red herrings, there's an ignore function (or hey, you could just not post them and try intelligent discussion instead).

 

P.S. might want to stay on topic lest the mods come a call'n.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Again. BC demerit system is different than Alberta.  I've got a speeding ticket in BC and all i had to do was pay the fine.  Heck the cop was nice enough to knocked the ticket down too. 

You paid him off, didn't you?

[Ghostsof1915]

Maybe the media and the new attorney general need to READ the report (it is long). But the statement is if ICBC does nothing, they will have to raise rates 30%. The choice basically is get rid of Tort (the right to sue) for injuries, then have higher accident benefits, and only sue if the other driver is impaired, excessive speeding, or texting, or grossly negligent. Or cap pain and suffering which other Provinces including Alberta and Ontario have done.

 

Basically it's a choice between lawyers, or the public. And the Attorney General is on record of saying he doesn't want no-fault (i.e. you can't sue) insurance.

If pain and suffering is capped, ICBC can freeze the premiums (next best option).

 

It's a good report by Ernest and Young. It's a pity folks can't be bothered to read it in detail.

[Toews]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You're quickly becoming a waste of space in every thread.  Kind of pathetic really. you rarely provide any actual content anymore.  Must be the millennial fault.  .

 

I wonder is @Toewsagrees with you.  Toews are we not having adult discussion?

I don't want to get between the two of you, but the two of us definitely do not have any problems. 

[Toews]

16 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Again. BC demerit system is different than Alberta.  I've got a speeding ticket in BC and all i had to do was pay the fine.  Heck the cop was nice enough to knocked the ticket down too. 

That's the problem, that's the reason why the drivers don't give a $&!# about following the rules. 14 tickets and they are still debating whether that woman's license should be suspended. You can bet she will get in court and a nice judge will knock off a few of those tickets and demerit points, maybe get the fine reduced. Its amazing to me that people argue that courts are not tough enough on criminals but reckless drivers are given a pass to continue doing whatever it is they are doing. Raising everyone's premiums is not the answer and only punishes people who are already paying through the nose for their insurance. This money should be coming out of the pockets of the people committing traffic offenses.

 

I believe the article also stated that the woman had been fined upwards of 16K based on the laws. I couldn't possibly afford to pay 16K in fines, the first couple of tickets would have set me straight because I have expenses and I am also trying to save. Clearly that woman did not care though, this is what @Rush17 is talking about. Those fines clearly mean more to people like me than they do to her.

[PhillipBlunt]

14 minutes ago, Toews said:

That's the problem, that's the reason why the drivers don't give a $&!# about following the rules. 14 tickets and they are still debating whether that woman's license should be suspended. You can bet she will get in court and a nice judge will knock off a few of those tickets and demerit points, maybe get the fine reduced. Its amazing to me that people argue that courts are not tough enough on criminals but reckless drivers are given a pass to continue doing whatever it is they are doing. Raising everyone's premiums is not the answer and only punishes people who are already paying through the nose for their insurance. This money should be coming out of the pockets of the people committing traffic offenses.

 

I believe the article also stated that the woman had been fined upwards of 16K based on the laws. I couldn't possibly afford to pay 16K in fines, the first couple of tickets would have set me straight because I have expenses and I am also trying to save. Clearly that woman did not care though, this is what @Rush17 is talking about. Those fines clearly mean more to people like me than they do to her.

That woman should have her licence taken away permanently, and when, not if, she's found driving without a licence, it's an automatic prison term.

[Rush17]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That woman should have her licence taken away permanently, and when, not if, she's found driving without a licence, it's an automatic prison term.

community service could do better. make her work in soup kitchens for the less fortunate lol.  prison seems a bit steep though in all seriousness.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

8 minutes ago, Toews said:

That's the problem, that's the reason why the drivers don't give a $&!# about following the rules. 14 tickets and they are still debating whether that woman's license should be suspended. You can bet she will get in court and a nice judge will knock off a few of those tickets and demerit points, maybe get the fine reduced. Its amazing to me that people argue that courts are not tough enough on criminals but reckless drivers are given a pass to continue doing whatever it is they are doing. Raising everyone's premiums is not the answer and only punishes people who are already paying through the nose for their insurance. This money should be coming out of the pockets of the people committing traffic offenses.

 

In Alberta she's only be get a max of 6 tickets, depending on the severity of the infraction.  (failing to signal is only 2 demerits) .  And she wouldn't be able to get off, She'd lose her license, and it would stay on her driving record for 10 years. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Toews said:

I believe the article also stated that the woman had been fined upwards of 16K based on the laws. I couldn't possibly afford to pay 16K in fines, the first couple of tickets would have set me straight because I have expenses and I am also trying to save. Clearly that woman did not care though, this is what @Rush17 is talking about. Those fines clearly mean more to people like me than they do to her.

 

Sounds to me more like the BC demerit system needs a revamp.  Had she been one infaction away from losing her license she'd probably been more inclined to care. 

 

I don't know BC but the little research i did, the point system they have in place has more of an effect on insurance than it does with the law enforcement. 

 

In AB every driver gets a total 15 demerits.  Every infraction has a value of demerits you lose.  Once you've lost 15 demerits in  a two year span, your license gets suspended.  GLD license only get 8.  It would have only taken that lady 5 distracted driving tickets before she lost her license. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

39 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You paid him off, didn't you?

Nope just told him i was trying to keep up with my buddy who was ahead of me...  (which was true).  Cops must just be nicer in BC.   Just paid the fine and it had zero impact on my demerits or driving record. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Rush17 said:

community service could do better. make her work in soup kitchens for the less fortunate lol.  prison seems a bit steep though in all seriousness.

Screw that! To the gallows!!!

 

The way I look at it Rush, is that this woman clearly could give a tuppenny &^@# about anyone else on the road. One day her reckless driving may end up causing a fatality. Why not deal with this nutjob now?

[Rush17]

42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You're quickly becoming a waste of space in every thread.  Kind of pathetic really. you rarely provide any actual content anymore.  Must be the millennial fault.  .

 

I wonder is @Toewsagrees with you.  Toews are we not having adult discussion?

I think this is a case of him feeling cornered. the debate has largely been 4 or 5 on 1.  attacking the easiest target does make good self defense.  i prefer to let logic and facts win out not just outright attacks. if anyone else would like to jump in please do. we alway could use more perspectives.  typically though in my life experience when 4 or 5 times the people then you go strongly against you. there is typically something im missing in my conclusion. im sorry if you feel trapped but you really shouldn't be acting that way.  i hope more jump in to further emhance this discussion.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

42 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I've already provided plenty of content/discussion in this thread before you and your red herrings showed up. Just because you don't like me pointing out your red herrings is no reason to get pissy. You don't like seeing me point out your red herrings, there's an ignore function (or hey, you could just not post them and try intelligent discussion instead).

 

P.S. might want to stay on topic lest the mods come a call'n.

anything you disagree with you consider a red herring.   You don't even know what a red herring is, that's just you're fall back when you're confused and can't come up with a rebuttal, which happens a lot....

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Nope just told him i was trying to keep up with my buddy who was ahead of me...  (which was true).  Cops must just be nicer in BC.   Just paid the fine and it had zero impact on my demerits or driving record. 

Canadian provinces don't share demerit points or even driving infractions.

 

People can speed in one province, get a hefty fine, and not have to pay....as long as they never visit that province again. Mind you, they'll have to deal with collection agencies for 7 years, but it is what it is.