Starting to watch hockey again. I have a few questions

[Dazzle]

31 minutes ago, Sandro17 said:

1.Yes you are honestly tone deaf to simple logic I'm afraid

2. Did you just call yourself a sucker? Dude, stop posting in this thread you're making yourself look worse as time goes on.  I'm not kidding, your posts are very revealing as to what type of person you are. 

3. There is nothing wrong with the picture. I'm not responsible or obliged to watch Canucks games.  I still watch even if were 20th in the league. End of story. Me watching the team again is what the team, coaches, GM and ownership wants is it not? You telling me I'm not wanted would not be appreciated by any of those guys.

 

4. You're mistaken, I don't believe that I'm entitled to have positive reactions from what you call "Suckers". What I do have is the belief that human beings ought to act with decency and class. You don't hit that standard and I'm sorry for your loss as a person. The fact that you have the internal need to make someone feel bad over 3 years of a game shows small mindedness.

5. Why are you sad that fans are coming back? It's a good thing that fans are coming back. If fans don't come back, the franchise goes down the tubes. Then what will you do? 

6. You may think I am not a "True Fan" whatever your so called standard is, but from 2008-2014 the general consensus in the community and in these forums is that Canucks fans need more class. From the time one of us threw coins at Patrick Kane after a play off loss (I hope that wasn't you) to the 2011 Stanley cup riots, the adage was true. Having said that Dazzle, you're the prime example of one of the fans that gives Canucks fans a bad reputation. I'm sad to see that because of fans like you, Canuck fans have a bad reputation. IMO, before you tell anyone how to be a true fan, become a good representation of what a good fan should be like. Something tells me that when new comers come in, it'll be positive guys like me who have to clean up after your classlessness. 

TBH, if I were an owner, player, coach or if I were a GM, of the Canucks, I wouldn't appreciate you turning others away. Think about it, would the team you support really be supporting the way you're turning others away right now? 

 

You really do seem to be missing the point, so I'm going to write everything without the sarcastic comments.

 

1. I wasn't actually questioning my own logic skills; I was being extremely sarcastic. But, you speak of this 'simple logic'. Have you even demonstrated that you know it? Why are you still confused that you're being criticised?

 

You are getting called out for being a fairweather fan, largely because you gave a very weak apology for it.

 

2. I called myself a sucker in jest. You don't seem to get it, so there's not much more that needs to be said. I understand where you're coming from with regards to me being revealed as a person, but I'm going to push that point aside. I'm not addressing it, other than this point.

 

3. That isn't what you said. You said you didn't watch the Canucks for three years because that it was too boring for you. (This is 2015-2018). Admittedly, this was a period that isn't that 'exciting' because it was a developmental phase for the team, but one would've hoped that you would've at least held a grasp. However, how are you SO out of touch? Last year was probably the most watchable of the so-called boring hockey, but even though you were keeping up with the team, you didn't bother to watch at all.

 

4. You should've seen it coming, shouldn't you? You claimed not to be a fairweather fan, but that is exactly what you are. A fairweather fan. I think there'd be less of an issue if you just admitted it outright. Instead, you deny.

 

5. I disagree. Fairweather fans are part of the reason why Canuck fans do get a bad reputation. There's "fans" that badmouth other fans on boards when we were winning. There's "fans" that pretend to be fans but disappear when they don't do as well as they used to. I remember in 2011 when "fans' showed up to watch hockey, only for them to disappear SO fast afterward. There are fanbases from other teams that have better 'fans' than we do, largely because they stuck it out, even when times were bad.

 

From 2011-2018, there were ups and downs, but it only took a few bad years for you to leave.

 

The people that threw coins at players, or bananas are idiots who made bad decisions. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm fairly certain they're banned from attending, ever, so there are consequences.

 

6. Actually, this fanbase/board wasn't known as the place for 'class'. We just simply tolerate the shenanigans that go on and laugh at the idiots that make stupid statements, only for them to blow back against them.

 

I'm actually quite positive, believe it or not. I'm really really happy with how the team is doing, but the difference between you and I is that I stuck it out with the team in its entirety. And I'm not even a die-hard fan. I just didn't bail on the team just because it was too 'boring' for my tastes.

 

It's incredibly satisfying to see these players that I watched from the beginning improve so much. I remember when Horvat was questioned as a prospect. I remember when Virtanen was repeatedly called a bust especially after a poor showing on the international level. Juolevi. Pettersson. To see some of these guys prove themselves is great.

 

To be honest, fans shouldn't be bashing other fans, casual or not.

 

But one thing is for sure, you are a fairweather fan. Why make excuses and defend that you're not?

[48MPHSlapShot]

1) Offense round the league is on the rise. The days of the big, bruising Kings and whatnot seem to be coming to a close for the time being.

 

2) Combination of cap issues and star players (Keith and Seabrook on particular) not being what they once were.

 

3) I'd imagine this may be our last season of being a bottom 5-10 team. The worst of it seems to be over and we seem to be just starting the upswing now imho. 

 

Also, I don't really understand why this post is getting so much hate. People here seem to be intent on creating a toxic fandom. Personally, I'd consider a fan that stopped paying attention for a period of time and decided to come back a far "better" fan then someone who goes out of their way to toxify the fandom by calling people "bandwagon jumpers", "fairweather fans" or whatever. At the end of the day, all those types of "fans" do is create a septic environment and hurt the Canucks fandom.

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

1) Offense round the league is on the rise. The days of the big, bruising Kings and whatnot seem to be coming to a close for the time being.

 

2) Combination of cap issues and star players (Keith and Seabrook on particular) not being what they once were.

 

3) I'd imagine this may be our last season of being a bottom 5-10 team. The worst of it seems to be over and we seem to be just starting the upswing now imho. 

 

Also, I don't really understand why this post is getting so much hate. People here seem to be intent on creating a toxic fandom. Personally, I'd consider a fan that stopped paying attention for a period of time and decided to come back a far "better" fan then someone who goes out of their way to toxify the fandom by calling people "bandwagon jumpers", "fairweather fans" or whatever. At the end of the day, all those types of "fans" do is create a septic environment and hurt the Canucks fandom.

I disagree. The jury remains out on how much "better" as you said he will be by coming back now. He's established that he can stop watching at the toss of a dime.

 

I think it would be less of an issue if he didn't deny that he was a fairweather fan, but he did. Even made excuses to justify it.

 

Whatever though. My point has been made. No need to beat the topic to death. He can watch if he wants to or not. I'm not going to comment anymore on it. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

48 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I disagree. The jury remains out on how much "better" as you said he will be by coming back now. He's established that he can stop watching at the toss of a dime.

 

I think it would be less of an issue if he didn't deny that he was a fairweather fan, but he did. Even made excuses to justify it.

 

Whatever though. My point has been made. No need to beat the topic to death. He can watch if he wants to or not. I'm not going to comment anymore on it. 

Why do you care?

[Rob_Zepp]

9 hours ago, Sandro17 said:

So, its been a while and I've been disconnected from the NHL for the past 3 years. With the rise of Boeser, Petterson and the hype around Hughes, Canucks hockey has started to become bearable again (Yeah, I get it you think I'm a fair weather fan but 20th in the league during a good streak isn't exactly fair weather).

I'm noticing some changes in that I'm hoping you guys could answer for me that would catch me back up:

1. It feels like the game has changed in the past 3 years. Or maybe it's just the Canucks playstyle? There have been a lot more two on ones and breakaways in the game from what I am seeing than what I was seeing in 2015. Is it really more common around the league? Or are the Canucks just turning into a quick transition team (with depleted defense)? Does this mean we tend to see a lot of dynamic movement out of the zone (No more set ups from Sedins), and defensive lapses going into the zone (No more Dan Hamhuis). This type of hockey is pretty exciting.

2. WTF happened to the Blackhawks? Seems to be a pretty sharp descent.

3. How many more years of tanking? Or better yet, how many more years before we properly become a contender?



Cheers,

1.   The gravity reduction rule has helped but some argue the required pregame meal of penguin meat is the real reason.

 

2.   They are playing politically correct given their insensitive logo.

 

3.   1.5 more years per the terms of the Växjö accord.   

[Dazzle]

12 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Why do you care?

I found it amusing that he took the time to justify himself about not being a bandwagoner. 

 

In reflection, I could've taken a different approach. Not saying I regret it or not. I could've. May have been more effective in getting my points across.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, Dazzle said:

I found it amusing that he took the time to justify himself about not being a bandwagoner. 

 

In reflection, I could've taken a different approach. Not saying I regret it or not. I could've. May have been more effective in getting my points across.

So? He admitted that he took time away when the team started to go downhill. Would you rather these "bandwagoners" not come back and the arena remain half empty even when we're competing for cups again?

[Dazzle]

4 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

So? He admitted that he took time away when the team started to go downhill. Would you rather these "bandwagoners" not come back and the arena remain half empty even when we're competing for cups again?

I wouldn't be worried about the arena being empty. We have a very fickle fanbase, but it takes some real honesty to see that. People are going nuts over Pettersson and Boeser. When the Canucks market Pettersson next year, expect an unprecedented increase in sales. Doesn't take a marketing whiz to see this. It's a no brainer.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, Dazzle said:

I wouldn't be worried about the arena be empty. We have a very fickle fanbase, but it takes some real honesty to see that.

Sure we do. I just think it's counterproductive to try and chase people away when they start showing an interest in the team again.

[The Beagle had landed]

I never understood the hate towards "bandwagon" fans.  Not everyone is a die hard.  A fan is a fan regardless of how often or not they follow a team.  

 

The Canucks are the only sports team I've ever been fully invested in.  

 

The Messier/Keenan years were the only time I lost interest in the team.  That doesn't make me or anyone else who boycotted that horrendous time in Canucks history any less of a fan.

 

Also life happens and things like televised sports drop down the priority list.  That doesn't make me or anyone else who has done this any less of fan.

[Ferlands_Head]

9 hours ago, Sandro17 said:

So, its been a while and I've been disconnected from the NHL for the past 3 years. With the rise of Boeser, Petterson and the hype around Hughes, Canucks hockey has started to become bearable again (Yeah, I get it you think I'm a fair weather fan but 20th in the league during a good streak isn't exactly fair weather).

I'm noticing some changes in that I'm hoping you guys could answer for me that would catch me back up:

1. It feels like the game has changed in the past 3 years. Or maybe it's just the Canucks playstyle? There have been a lot more two on ones and breakaways in the game from what I am seeing than what I was seeing in 2015. Is it really more common around the league? Or are the Canucks just turning into a quick transition team (with depleted defense)? Does this mean we tend to see a lot of dynamic movement out of the zone (No more set ups from Sedins), and defensive lapses going into the zone (No more Dan Hamhuis). This type of hockey is pretty exciting.

2. WTF happened to the Blackhawks? Seems to be a pretty sharp descent.

3. How many more years of tanking? Or better yet, how many more years before we properly become a contender?



Cheers,

1. I don't think there was much change for the Canucks until this year tbh. We are certainly faster this year but still prone to defensive lapses. Goal scoring is up this year league wide possibly due to the smaller goalie equipment. 

 

2. IMO Saad for Panarin was the beginning of the end for them. 

 

3. I think we can contend in about 2 years, make the playoffs next year! 

[Sandro17]

4 hours ago, Dazzle said:

You really do seem to be missing the point, so I'm going to write everything without the sarcastic comments.

 

1. I wasn't actually questioning my own logic skills; I was being extremely sarcastic. But, you speak of this 'simple logic'. Have you even demonstrated that you know it? Why are you still confused that you're being criticised?

 

You are getting called out for being a fairweather fan, largely because you gave a very weak apology for it.

 

2. I called myself a sucker in jest. You don't seem to get it, so there's not much more that needs to be said. I understand where you're coming from with regards to me being revealed as a person, but I'm going to push that point aside. I'm not addressing it, other than this point.

 

3. That isn't what you said. You said you didn't watch the Canucks for three years because that it was too boring for you. (This is 2015-2018). Admittedly, this was a period that isn't that 'exciting' because it was a developmental phase for the team, but one would've hoped that you would've at least held a grasp. However, how are you SO out of touch? Last year was probably the most watchable of the so-called boring hockey, but even though you were keeping up with the team, you didn't bother to watch at all.

 

4. You should've seen it coming, shouldn't you? You claimed not to be a fairweather fan, but that is exactly what you are. A fairweather fan. I think there'd be less of an issue if you just admitted it outright. Instead, you deny.

 

5. I disagree. Fairweather fans are part of the reason why Canuck fans do get a bad reputation. There's "fans" that badmouth other fans on boards when we were winning. There's "fans" that pretend to be fans but disappear when they don't do as well as they used to. I remember in 2011 when "fans' showed up to watch hockey, only for them to disappear SO fast afterward. There are fanbases from other teams that have better 'fans' than we do, largely because they stuck it out, even when times were bad.

 

From 2011-2018, there were ups and downs, but it only took a few bad years for you to leave.

 

The people that threw coins at players, or bananas are idiots who made bad decisions. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm fairly certain they're banned from attending, ever, so there are consequences.

 

6. Actually, this fanbase/board wasn't known as the place for 'class'. We just simply tolerate the shenanigans that go on and laugh at the idiots that make stupid statements, only for them to blow back against them.

 

I'm actually quite positive, believe it or not. I'm really really happy with how the team is doing, but the difference between you and I is that I stuck it out with the team in its entirety. And I'm not even a die-hard fan. I just didn't bail on the team just because it was too 'boring' for my tastes.

 

It's incredibly satisfying to see these players that I watched from the beginning improve so much. I remember when Horvat was questioned as a prospect. I remember when Virtanen was repeatedly called a bust especially after a poor showing on the international level. Juolevi. Pettersson. To see some of these guys prove themselves is great.

 

To be honest, fans shouldn't be bashing other fans, casual or not.

 

But one thing is for sure, you are a fairweather fan. Why make excuses and defend that you're not?

1. Have you seen how many people are actually talking back at you and quoting your $&!#ty posts asking you what your problem is? Pal, you're the one being criticized.

2. You called yourself a sucker in jest? You also just admitted that you've been revealed as a petty and small minded person so I disagree, you really just are a sucker

3. I didn't say it was boring I said it was unbearable, theres a difference. 

4. How does that make being a prick correct? No seriously, is a game really worth trying to make someone feel bad over? You're such a small person

5. It also only took half a year of less than mediocre play for me to come back right? Oh wow look we are 20th in the league on a good streak with 3 games in hand on every other team you call that fair weather? You need to get yourself checked.

6. Yeah this place isn't known for its class...so be a part of the change. 

But you haven't answered my question which I'm sure is burning you inside out. The million dollar question I have for you is:

Do you honestly think that the team you support, its players, coaches, GM and ownership appreciate guys like you turning down fans that are coming back? If the answer is yes, then please explain, if not then change your attitude.

[Sandro17]

17 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Sure we do. I just think it's counterproductive to try and chase people away when they start showing an interest in the team again.

It's true, whether you like my attitude or not, it's really stupid of Dazzle to be doing this. Anytime tickets are being sold, it helps the team

But again, read his posts, he seems to have a hard time grasping the larger picture and he seems awfully small minded. 

[MikeyBoy44]

9 hours ago, Roberts said:

I'm getting a strong bandwagon-fan vibe from this thread

All in all who cares. The term bandwagon fan seems to be reserved for the self-entitled imo. 

[Dazzle]

4 hours ago, Sandro17 said:

1. Have you seen how many people are actually talking back at you and quoting your $&!#ty posts asking you what your problem is? Pal, you're the one being criticized.

2. You called yourself a sucker in jest? You also just admitted that you've been revealed as a petty and small minded person so I disagree, you really just are a sucker

3. I didn't say it was boring I said it was unbearable, theres a difference. 

4. How does that make being a prick correct? No seriously, is a game really worth trying to make someone feel bad over? You're such a small person

5. It also only took half a year of less than mediocre play for me to come back right? Oh wow look we are 20th in the league on a good streak with 3 games in hand on every other team you call that fair weather? You need to get yourself checked.

6. Yeah this place isn't known for its class...so be a part of the change. 

But you haven't answered my question which I'm sure is burning you inside out. The million dollar question I have for you is:

Do you honestly think that the team you support, its players, coaches, GM and ownership appreciate guys like you turning down fans that are coming back? If the answer is yes, then please explain, if not then change your attitude.

You keep bringing up owners, players, coaches when it's really just a discussion between you and I and/or other forum members.

 

1. I would say there are a handful of people  including myself that took you negatively. More than one other person is enough proof that people interpret things differently. On the flip side, there are people that don't agree with my approach. I concede this. However, it looks like you're the one that's ignoring the negative responses. So much for logic talk.

 

2. How am I 'revealed' to be a petty, small minded person? Someone's opinion of me may or may not be correct. Just because someone sides with you doesn't necessarily mean they're right. I'm not saying they're wrong either. Again, it goes to my first point, interpretation. Something you seem to consistently prove that you lack.

 

3. Could you elaborate the fine distinction of unbearable and boring? Either way, you neglected to care about the team for some time.

 

4. For someone who talks so much about logic, the amount of pathetic personal attacks you're throwing at me weakens your argument further. That's an FYI in case you're actually interested in a debate.

 

5. You're so lost in your own argument that you've lost sense in what you're talking about. What are you referring to with "only took half a year or less than mediocre play for me to come back?" It remains to be seen whether or not you're 'back'.

 

6. Sure.

 

I haven't actually dodged any of your questions/responses. I've addressed everything, including this last one.

 

Honestly? I'm going to say 'no'. They won't appreciate it. Mostly because it's a business point of view, rather than straight-up loyalty.

 

But you're also steering the discussion away from the central question - are you a bandwagoner/fairweather fan? That's what this whole discussion was about. Not about the owners, not about the players.

 

One of the things about the forum is that you should expect that not everyone will agree with you, and don't be so shocked that someone calls you out for something you wrote or said.

 

You were called out for being a fairweather fan, but further discussion of this is pointless.

 

I will end our talk with the hope that you stay a lot longer to watch the current Canucks play. Yes, I do care that people watch, but I also hate it when people come and go, not appreciating the trouble that fans, players and staff have gone through to get to this very point. That is all.

 

 

 

 

[canuck_in_england]

14 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Perhaps I am tone-deaf to your logic, so I will re-summarize what I've seen and you can confirm the run-down of what just happened.

 

You have this false entitled expectation that people are going to respond to you positively. You are sadly mistaken.

 

What doesn't seem to get inside your thick head is that you've established that your precious time is worth more than watching Canucks games, which you've eloquently stated wasn't worth your time (i.e. it was boring). In fact, it wasn't just one or two games, it was the entirety of three years.

 

So for all the suckers like us that watched the games, we can give you a run-down of all the good parts of the team, while sparing you all the bad, boring stuff.

 

You still don't see what's wrong with this picture?

 

In your original post, you stated that you'd understand why people would think you are a fairweather fan, but a team 20th in the league is apparently your excuse. You've justified it in your mind. The last three Canucks years haven't actually been unwatchable, especially if you've seen far worse.

 

Some of us have watched the ups and downs and can fully appreciate where this team is going now. You ARE a fairweather fan, and expecting that you won't get flamed for it is beyond naive.

 

Heck, even a troll like FedorFedorov who is still here, has been watching the games the entire time. He's still whining about the team and he might not admit that he likes the team, but he's been around a lot longer than you. Somehow he's able to find time.

Yeah I think most peole have an expectation that people will respond positively to them having asked a genuine question ...it's called being part of society. On the other hand, you write things like this, when its a lot harder to be hateful than decent then yeah maybe you should expect negativity. 

[Sandro17]

8 hours ago, Dazzle said:

You keep bringing up owners, players, coaches when it's really just a discussion between you and I and/or other forum members.

 

1. I would say there are a handful of people  including myself that took you negatively. More than one other person is enough proof that people interpret things differently. On the flip side, there are people that don't agree with my approach. I concede this. However, it looks like you're the one that's ignoring the negative responses. So much for logic talk.

 

2. How am I 'revealed' to be a petty, small minded person? Someone's opinion of me may or may not be correct. Just because someone sides with you doesn't necessarily mean they're right. I'm not saying they're wrong either. Again, it goes to my first point, interpretation. Something you seem to consistently prove that you lack.

 

3. Could you elaborate the fine distinction of unbearable and boring? Either way, you neglected to care about the team for some time.

 

4. For someone who talks so much about logic, the amount of pathetic personal attacks you're throwing at me weakens your argument further. That's an FYI in case you're actually interested in a debate.

 

5. You're so lost in your own argument that you've lost sense in what you're talking about. What are you referring to with "only took half a year or less than mediocre play for me to come back?" It remains to be seen whether or not you're 'back'.

 

6. Sure.

 

I haven't actually dodged any of your questions/responses. I've addressed everything, including this last one.

 

Honestly? I'm going to say 'no'. They won't appreciate it. Mostly because it's a business point of view, rather than straight-up loyalty.

 

But you're also steering the discussion away from the central question - are you a bandwagoner/fairweather fan? That's what this whole discussion was about. Not about the owners, not about the players.

 

One of the things about the forum is that you should expect that not everyone will agree with you, and don't be so shocked that someone calls you out for something you wrote or said.

 

You were called out for being a fairweather fan, but further discussion of this is pointless.

 

I will end our talk with the hope that you stay a lot longer to watch the current Canucks play. Yes, I do care that people watch, but I also hate it when people come and go, not appreciating the trouble that fans, players and staff have gone through to get to this very point. That is all.

 

 

 

 

Central Question: Nah, being 20th place in the league while every other team has 3 games in hand on us is not fair weather.  So how can I be a fairweather fan when I'm coming back at a time when the weather isn't fair? 

So you concede my point that your attitude as a fan is just not acceptable. In fact, from the standpoint of The Canucks and franchise as a whole my attitude as a fan can easily be said to be more appreciated at this point than yours is.
 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Sandro17 said:

Central Question: Nah, being 20th place in the league while every other team has 3 games in hand on us is not fair weather.  So how can I be a fairweather fan when I'm coming back at a time when the weather isn't fair? 

So you concede my point that your attitude as a fan is just not acceptable. In fact, from the standpoint of The Canucks and franchise as a whole my attitude as a fan can easily be said to be more appreciated at this point than yours is.
 

No matter how good you're trying to make yourself look, the fact remains that people such as myself are skeptical about how loyal you'll be as a fan. That's something you will have to prove me wrong. From this point on, I will not be commenting further on our past exchanges.

 

However, I invite you to stay longer to watch the Canucks because it truly is an unprecedented period, which was largely sparked by Boeser's emergence. Some say Boeser may get overlooked by Pettersson, but I think both players need each other. The proof is in Petterson's center ice bank pass to Boeser, which the latter finished with brilliance.