[Signing] Marcus Johansson to Buffalo. 2 year $4.5 AAV

[theo5789]

5 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

They are similar players in terms of production, and they got him for free instead of giving up a first. JT Miller trade keeps on looking like an over payment. Either of Nyquist or Johansson could have filled the same role for free at a similar cap hit.   

If you think they are similar players, then you don't know these players. It's a very weak argument to suggest so. We wanted grit with skill in our top 6, Johansson and Nyquist do not provide that. Ferland is a lesser player too.

 

It's funny complaints seem to happen only after Benning has made his moves. Last couple of years, we made several UFA signings and people complained about every player signed for whatever reasons and now it's the better route? Yes we traded a 1st, but he is the best player from the "secondary" tier and comes at a price. If Miller was a UFA, he would be getting paid more and with more term. I'd argue that because he signed in Tampa with their supposed tax break that he took a lesser deal there which we are now benefitting from as well.

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

If you think they are similar players, then you don't know these players. It's a very weak argument to suggest so. We wanted grit with skill in our top 6, Johansson and Nyquist do not provide that. Ferland is a lesser player too.

 

It's funny complaints seem to happen only after Benning has made his moves. Last couple of years, we made several UFA signings and people complained about every player signed for whatever reasons and now it's the better route? Yes we traded a 1st, but he is the best player from the "secondary" tier and comes at a price. If Miller was a UFA, he would be getting paid more and with more term. I'd argue that because he signed in Tampa with their supposed tax break that he took a lesser deal there which we are now benefitting from as well.

Johannson isnt afriad of the physical stuff and is very underrated. Nyquist plays a more skilled game than both but they all are similar in production, all three are second line wingers. The term on the UFA signings are a lot better than in previous years.  

[Gaudette Celly]

16 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

If you think they are similar players, then you don't know these players. It's a very weak argument to suggest so. We wanted grit with skill in our top 6, Johansson and Nyquist do not provide that. Ferland is a lesser player too.

 

It's funny complaints seem to happen only after Benning has made his moves. Last couple of years, we made several UFA signings and people complained about every player signed for whatever reasons and now it's the better route? Yes we traded a 1st, but he is the best player from the "secondary" tier and comes at a price. If Miller was a UFA, he would be getting paid more and with more term. I'd argue that because he signed in Tampa with their supposed tax break that he took a lesser deal there which we are now benefitting from as well.

Signs UFAs -- needless, overpays

Trades -- overpays, "throws in" picks

Never quantified of course, just "replacement-level player" quips.  And of course, no alternatives either, except "better to have done nothing."

 

Yes, the lack of creativity let alone insight of the "criticisms" is boring.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Johannson isnt afriad of the physical stuff and is very underrated. Nyquist plays a more skilled game than both but they all are similar in production, all three are second line wingers. The term on the UFA signings are a lot better than in previous years.  

Saying Johansson isn't afraid of the physical stuff is the same as Baertschi not afraid of the physical stuff. They don't shy away from it, but they're not aggressors. Baertschi is underrated and is very similar to Johansson and is cheaper, but both are not what Miller provides. Johansson and Nyquist both have no fights to their names.

 

Nyquist is the most skilled, I agree, but Miller has very similar offensive production (56, 58, 46 points in his last 3 seasons compares to Nyquist's 48, 40, 60 in his last 3) on top of his physical play. Nyquist would've been a nice addition to Miller, but Miller is the type of player we are missing in our top 6. Miller had 1.5 hits average per game while both Johansson and Nyquist had 0.5 hits average. Back to the fights, Miller has fought (not the heavyweight type, but has gone up against Ferland, Kesler types). This is important because it shows he will stand up for his teammates and this is something we want to "protect" EP and he can actually play to a level to keep up with him. Miller is important because he will be forechecking and willing board battles to get to the skill guys in EP and BB or work well on a tenacious line with Bo and Pearson.

 

Johansson and Nyquist would've been nice adds, but Miller is what we need and wasn't available in UFA and he comes in under UFA value. That unfortunately comes at a cost.

[DownUndaCanuck]

On 7/7/2019 at 3:18 AM, theo5789 said:

The point of Miller isn't just about points although he's had 56, 58, 47 points in his last 3 seasons. Also no guarantee that he signs here. Johansson is like Baertschi who's basically one more concussion from calling it a career. You want young and versatile, then look no further than Miller. Also Johansson taking less than a faceoff a game this past season and hovering around 30% on those draws would suggest he doesn't play center in comparison to Miller who took well over 500 draws and was just below 50%.

 

So yes Johansson wouldn't have cost a 1st, but you're getting a significantly lesser player.

I would agree that Miller > Johansson, but certainly not "significantly" and certainly not the difference of a mid to late 1st in what looks like a pretty deep draft.

 

However it is a risk with MoJo of course probably not wanting to sign here. JB took the safe route of acquiring someone before it's too late. 

[theo5789]

57 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I would agree that Miller > Johansson, but certainly not "significantly" and certainly not the difference of a mid to late 1st in what looks like a pretty deep draft.

 

However it is a risk with MoJo of course probably not wanting to sign here. JB took the safe route of acquiring someone before it's too late. 

So you're saying that this team would be better off with Johansson and the 1st rather than Miller? If the team is better with Miller, then that's the cost to get a signed player (IMO on a decent contract) and for the more impactful player.

 

I'm curious to know how you define significant (or what makes Johansson closer to Miller than what I believe) though because I explained some of the aspects as to why I believe he's significantly better than Johansson.