Mafia: Tales From The Dungeon [Game over; Mafia win)

[SixFootFiveAndJackedAF]

7 hours ago, falcon45ca said:

@SixFootFiveAndJackedAF

 

What about hoggers play gives you a TP read on him? Has he done something you can actually say is townie this game, or are you reading him based off his meta from previous games with him?

 

Cuz I'm having a hard time seeing how he's TP this game from my experience with his TP play.

The biggest thing is he tried to team with me early on, which is a good sign. When hoggers is scum, he tends to play off on his own more.

 

With that said, he's not out of his scum meta yet for sure, but he hasn't really done anything scummy. His lack of action isn't alignment indicative. 

 

 

[SixFootFiveAndJackedAF]

1 hour ago, hoggers said:

Vote Count

 

SixFootFiveAndJackedAF (3) - milk and honey, Stamkos, Darth Melvin

hoggers (2) - Zfetch, falcon45ca

Time Lord (2) - Intoewsables, Maple

falcon45ca (1) - Master Radishes

Blue Jay 22 (2) - SixFootFiveAndJackedAF, Time Lord
Master Radishes (2) - Blue Jay 22, luckylager

Intoewsables (1) - 112

 

This was the VC (posted by TL) on page 42, and we all know what it became by like page 45

 

Final Vote Count

 

Time Lord (5) - Intoewsables, Maple, luckylager, falcon45ca, Blue Jay 22

SixFootFiveAndJackedAF (3) - milk and honey, Stamkos, Darth Melvin

Blue Jay 22 (2) - SixFootFiveAndJackedAF, Time Lord
Intoewsables (1) - 112

falcon45ca (1) - Master Radishes

hoggers (1) - Zfetch

 

inorganic wagon movement near eod talks a few stories

one of the contending three wagons (timelord, 6'5, me) held a wolf and everyone moved to timelord to protect the wolf wagon necessitating there to be more wolves on tl than just 6'5

town was just wrong

 

feels a little weird to be "just wrong" on time lord. the only thing against him was that his reads weren't a carbon copy of everyone else's which is real weak. his play itself was fine, and even if it wasn't, i was told my first game here that time lord becomes obvious as the game goes on. why wasn't he given that benefit here by people who know him well? that knocks out maple, leaves me with intoes, maybe lucky, falcon, and bluejay. lucky i've got a good feeling on, and he said bj was confirmed town in which hes also confirming himself.

 

that leaves me with intoews and falcon. before i run analysis through them, i'd like to check out this quote.

 

master radishes has the same idea i do, but he feels there's less info when a flashwagon near eod popped up. the lack of activity i get, but there were a lot of contending wagons throughout the day. i don't understand the dismissal even though he looks at everything else including the 112 kill. insteas, he just locks a lazy scum pool after and votes maple (who is 110% town). 

 

within my intoews, falcon pool, i can easily see one of the two as wolf with the radishes man. intoews has sort of stepped it up with quantity, but quality has stayed relatively the same. i know he was pretty widely townread last game as wolf, and it feels here that there's more effort but the insights are as superficial as ever. 

 

falcon is the polar opposite. feels more in tune with the gamestate, has a comprehensive scumteam, makes sense, posts actively. in a vaccum, these are real town characteristics. in falcon, it just feels fake. last game, he went after whoever the &^@# he wanted and regardless of if it was a good play, he was completely unapologetic in his pushes and plays. last game he scumread me all game, too, but the difference is he actually had his vote on me and others. 

 

now that 6'5 has started playing, it isn't inherently town either. i like his towncore, he's pretty consistent in locking towncores only with town as any alignment, but there's still a fundamental level of solving i'm missing from that slot that just shows scumminess. regardless of if i understand his past play, him not translating it sits rough.

 

other candidate is stamkos for pretty much the same reasoning. i was on bluejays ass last game for a personality read early on, and i'm getting the same vibes with stamkos. underwhelming and superficial content with a passive vibe is just where i feel i want to strike. i think it's the chain that's likely to break the rest of the mafia team.

 

vote Stamkos

 

before i forget, to support that one of intoews or falcon is mafia guaranteed, kill was off wagon. this suggests at least 1-2 wolves on main wagon.

 

[falcon, intoews, 6'5, stamkos, master radishes]

@luckylager @Blue Jay 22

Does hoggers speak correctly on Falcon here? Is his solving hollow and forced?

 

Also, Hoggers what about ZFetch? I think he's someone you'd want to talk about at least in passing

[Intoewsables]

4 hours ago, falcon45ca said:

I believe I have the first vote on Z, so that makes you a wagoneer.

....are you just sheeping my reads?

Lol, I've been thinking about accusing you of the same. Can't tell if we're just on the same page or what.

[Intoewsables]

2 hours ago, hoggers said:

inorganic wagon movement near eod talks a few stories

one of the contending three wagons (timelord, 6'5, me) held a wolf and everyone moved to timelord to protect the wolf wagon necessitating there to be more wolves on tl than just 6'5

town was just wrong

 

feels a little weird to be "just wrong" on time lord. the only thing against him was that his reads weren't a carbon copy of everyone else's which is real weak. his play itself was fine, and even if it wasn't, i was told my first game here that time lord becomes obvious as the game goes on. why wasn't he given that benefit here by people who know him well? that knocks out maple, leaves me with intoes, maybe lucky, falcon, and bluejay. lucky i've got a good feeling on, and he said bj was confirmed town in which hes also confirming himself.

 

that leaves me with intoews and falcon. before i run analysis through them, i'd like to check out this quote.

 

master radishes has the same idea i do, but he feels there's less info when a flashwagon near eod popped up. the lack of activity i get, but there were a lot of contending wagons throughout the day. i don't understand the dismissal even though he looks at everything else including the 112 kill. insteas, he just locks a lazy scum pool after and votes maple (who is 110% town). 

 

within my intoews, falcon pool, i can easily see one of the two as wolf with the radishes man. intoews has sort of stepped it up with quantity, but quality has stayed relatively the same. i know he was pretty widely townread last game as wolf, and it feels here that there's more effort but the insights are as superficial as ever. 

 

falcon is the polar opposite. feels more in tune with the gamestate, has a comprehensive scumteam, makes sense, posts actively. in a vaccum, these are real town characteristics. in falcon, it just feels fake. last game, he went after whoever the &^@# he wanted and regardless of if it was a good play, he was completely unapologetic in his pushes and plays. last game he scumread me all game, too, but the difference is he actually had his vote on me and others. 

 

now that 6'5 has started playing, it isn't inherently town either. i like his towncore, he's pretty consistent in locking towncores only with town as any alignment, but there's still a fundamental level of solving i'm missing from that slot that just shows scumminess. regardless of if i understand his past play, him not translating it sits rough.

 

other candidate is stamkos for pretty much the same reasoning. i was on bluejays ass last game for a personality read early on, and i'm getting the same vibes with stamkos. underwhelming and superficial content with a passive vibe is just where i feel i want to strike. i think it's the chain that's likely to break the rest of the mafia team.

 

vote Stamkos

 

before i forget, to support that one of intoews or falcon is mafia guaranteed, kill was off wagon. this suggests at least 1-2 wolves on main wagon.

 

[falcon, intoews, 6'5, stamkos, master radishes]

I think that overall, this is a pretty good post, but I'm going to add a couple of comments just for discussion's sake.

 

The wagon definitely felt inorganic, but LL and BJ almost certainly being town doesn't work with that theory. falcon is the only one who may have been trying to swing the vote for nefarious reasons, which would mean he was swinging it to save either you or JAF. I'm just not super convinced this is the case because as I've stated multiple times now, TL was setting off major sirens for me, and it's kinda hypocritical of me to assume that other people hopping on weren't just feeling the same way (and this is kinda backed by 2/3 of the swingers being almost lock town).

 

I take some issue with this because first of all, that's not why he was lynched, and secondly, I don't see how he "becomes obvious as the game goes on" at all. TP-TL does like to make those mega posts but they're generally filled with good information; this game has was just OMGUSing all over the place and it felt like he was trying hard to replicate what he'd usually do as TP, instead of just naturally providing reads. I still stand behind this as a good R1 lynch in theory, even if the results were obviously bad.

 

Can you explain this last part? It seems important and I'm not sure I quite follow what you're saying.

[Maple]

Hmmmmmmmm yeah, wagon meta isn't developed here yet.

[Maple]

Level 1 gameplay is to resolve the counterwagon. It's probably more worth to hit a loner with little tame impact and to kick the box a bit.

[luckylager]

59 minutes ago, SixFootFiveAndJackedAF said:

@luckylager @Blue Jay 22

Does hoggers speak correctly on Falcon here? Is his solving hollow and forced?

 

Also, Hoggers what about ZFetch? I think he's someone you'd want to talk about at least in passing

On falc, 

There's a very good chance he's been pocketing me.

He is less aggressive and paranoid than usual, his posting is a lighter and slightly more cheerful as well.

Quite a lot of how I read players is how their words make me feel, impressions. His wording is positive, but I might have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

 

Hollow and forced 

I'm not sure. Sometimes I'll read and be left with a feeling of emptiness, but I'm not getting that vibe from falc.

 

MR

Z

Stammer

 

MH

DM

-but to fair, I always read those two as scum. MH didn't bite on a little trap I set for him, but maybe it was just a poor attempt. 

 

@DarthMelvin - you asked about the phone -

I went back into my pm with AV and prodded him for a more clear answer. The reality is, BJ didn't move at all in R1. Not towards anyone or anything.

 

If you want to be super paranoid I suppose you could tinfoil your way into believing BJ somehow knew there'd be a contraband phone, he'd be targeted in R1, so he didn't get involved in the maf pm. Would take a whole $&!#load of tinfoil though.

 

3 players have brought the validity of my claim into question - MR, toews and DM.

Is there something there? 

 

[Maple]

1 minute ago, luckylager said:

On falc, 

There's a very good chance he's been pocketing me.

He is less aggressive and paranoid than usual, his posting is a lighter and slightly more cheerful as well.

Quite a lot of how I read players is how their words make me feel, impressions. His wording is positive, but I might have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

 

Hollow and forced 

I'm not sure. Sometimes I'll read and be left with a feeling of emptiness, but I'm not getting that vibe from falc.

 

MR

Z

Stammer

 

MH

DM

-but to fair, I always read those two as scum. MH didn't bite on a little trap I set for him, but maybe it was just a poor attempt. 

 

@DarthMelvin - you asked about the phone -

I went back into my pm with AV and prodded him for a more clear answer. The reality is, BJ didn't move at all in R1. Not towards anyone or anything.

 

If you want to be super paranoid I suppose you could tinfoil your way into believing BJ somehow knew there'd be a contraband phone, he'd be targeted in R1, so he didn't get involved in the maf pm. Would take a whole $&!#load of tinfoil though.

 

3 players have brought the validity of my claim into question - MR, toews and DM.

Is there something there? 

 

If you,  yourself,  have to double check the validity of your claim, does it stand to reason that a sane person, too, would want to follow up on it?

[Maple]

I'll look again, but I'm not big on your wagonomics,  hog. I'll double check it,  though. 

[milk and honey]

4 minutes ago, luckylager said:

On falc, 

There's a very good chance he's been pocketing me.

He is less aggressive and paranoid than usual, his posting is a lighter and slightly more cheerful as well.

Quite a lot of how I read players is how their words make me feel, impressions. His wording is positive, but I might have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

 

Hollow and forced 

I'm not sure. Sometimes I'll read and be left with a feeling of emptiness, but I'm not getting that vibe from falc.

 

MR

Z

Stammer

 

MH

DM

-but to fair, I always read those two as scum. MH didn't bite on a little trap I set for him, but maybe it was just a poor attempt. 

 

@DarthMelvin - you asked about the phone -

I went back into my pm with AV and prodded him for a more clear answer. The reality is, BJ didn't move at all in R1. Not towards anyone or anything.

 

If you want to be super paranoid I suppose you could tinfoil your way into believing BJ somehow knew there'd be a contraband phone, he'd be targeted in R1, so he didn't get involved in the maf pm. Would take a whole $&!#load of tinfoil though.

 

3 players have brought the validity of my claim into question - MR, toews and DM.

Is there something there? 

 

What trap hahahahahahaha

 

Im not a fish I am an idiot

[milk and honey]

hot take we do 2 wagons

 

Falcon and toews

[luckylager]

2 minutes ago, Maple said:

If you,  yourself,  have to double check the validity of your claim, does it stand to reason that a sane person, too, would want to follow up on it?

Good point

I'm just spitballing really, but you can into my post that much.

Throwing some thoughts around.

 

[Maple]

Just now, luckylager said:

Good point

I'm just spitballing really, but you can into my post that much.

Throwing some thoughts around.

 

Fair enough.

[luckylager]

1 minute ago, milk and honey said:

What trap hahahahahahaha

 

Im not a fish I am an idiot

Lol

And you know my level of experience 

[luckylager]

3 minutes ago, milk and honey said:

hot take we do 2 wagons

 

Falcon and toews

Why not MR and Z?

 

 

[milk and honey]

Falcon and toews more sketch imo

[hoggers]

25 minutes ago, Maple said:

I'll look again, but I'm not big on your wagonomics,  hog. I'll double check it,  though. 

didn't get a big chance to review the eod to review the context of it, so i was just planting basic clues over some analysis to see where that'd take me. i'm also thinking of just offing the counterwagon of 5'6, but i'm not sure i want the slot dead yet

[Blue Jay 22]

1 hour ago, SixFootFiveAndJackedAF said:

@Blue Jay 22

This is where I need you to come in.

 

I like this post from Stamkos, because they express healthy paranoia in the last part regarding LL. My issue with this post is that Stamkos uses his admitted cluelessness about the game to not take a stand on anything. Is this something Stamkos does often or not? I am not asking if this is something you could see Stamkos doing, I am asking specifically if he has done something like this in a past game.

 

 

In past games as scum, Stamkos has relied on self-doubt and playing the "clueless new player" card. To specifically answer your question, yes, I have seen him take this kind of "stand" or lack of before. However, the overall tone behind his R2 posts I find consistent going back to his exchange with Aladeen. There has also been comments he's made about MR having TWTBW posts and how MR's scum game would be much cleaner in his eyes, so he obviously has a sense of awareness as to what is scummy and not scummy in other peoples' eyes, and would know his sudden disappearance would raise eyebrows.  I'll need to see and wait for how the rest of his round plays, but I consider him in the 2nd tier of scum candidates right now.

[Blue Jay 22]

Unvote vote MR 

[Guest]

Sorry guys, everything is picking up and I’ve made some big booboos in my personal life. Not sure how I’ll be able to continue the game, but I’ll try. 

12 hours ago, falcon45ca said:

Hot take: what if the scum team is just sitting back, letting the town tear itself apart?

 

Lack of activity was a major factor in TL's mislynch. What if the mafia, seeing the debacle of R1 and the death of discussion, are content to just sit back and let the town mislynch each other to their victory?

 

I don’t like this post. To me, it seems like he’s wondering if the talkative ones should be cleared, at least for the time being, despite there ALWAYS being a wolf in a power scenario. It may work for R1, but after that, there has to be someone who can lead scum to victory. It would be awful foresight if the scum slanked the whole game. 

12 hours ago, SixFootFiveAndJackedAF said:

@Blue Jay 22

This is where I need you to come in.

 

I like this post from Stamkos, because they express healthy paranoia in the last part regarding LL. My issue with this post is that Stamkos uses his admitted cluelessness about the game to not take a stand on anything. Is this something Stamkos does often or not? I am not asking if this is something you could see Stamkos doing, I am asking specifically if he has done something like this in a past game.

 

 

I played that card HARD in my last scum game, however, not in this way. I pretended not to know game mechanics, or how things worked. However, it was my 3rd or so game back after taking a year off of this site, so it was believable at the time. I can never stupid myself as scum to victory again, because everyone would know to look for that.