The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[Ryan Strome]

39 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Not to be argumentative, but....... (substitute  Alberta for Quebec after the first sentence)

 

Reference Re Secession of Quebec, [1998] 2 SCR 217 is a landmark judgment of the Supreme Court of Canada regarding the legality, under both Canadian and international law, of a unilateral secession of Quebec from Canada.

 

Right to secede under Canadian law

The court addressed the three questions in order. First, they stated that, under the Canadian Constitution (and with Quebec being a party to it since its inception), unilateral secession was not legal. However, should a referendum decide in favour of independence, the rest of Canada "would have no basis to deny the right of the government of Quebec to pursue secession." Negotiations would have to follow to define the terms under which Quebec would gain independence, should it maintain that goal. However, should a referendum decide in favour of independence, the rest of Canada "would have no basis to deny the right of the government of Quebec to pursue secession." Negotiations would have to follow to define the terms under which Quebec would gain independence, should it maintain that goal.

 

Rights to secede under international law and self-determination

The answer to the second question, which concerned Quebec's right under international law to secede, gave the opinion that the international law on secession was not applicable to the situation of Quebec. The court pointed out that international law "does not specifically grant component parts of sovereign states the legal right to secede unilaterally from their 'parent' state." The Supreme Court of Canada's opinion stated that the right of a people to self-determination was expected to be exercised within the framework of existing states, by negotiation, for example.

 

 

The Supreme Court further stated that: Quebec could not, despite a clear referendum result, purport to invoke a right of self-determination to dictate the terms of a proposed secession to the other parties to the federation. The democratic vote, by however strong a majority, would have no legal effect on its own and could not push aside the principles of federalism and the rule of law, the rights of individuals and minorities, or the operation of democracy in the other provinces or in Canada as a whole.

====================

And after that, Parliament passed the Clarity Act, making the hurdles higher and the hoops smaller. Bottom line is that Alberta can still attempt to separate, but it is going to be an awfully difficult process.

So if I'm reading this correctly it's basically what I said. Secession is up to the province. The province holds a referendum to on secession if a majority is reached then it can happen. So it's provincial however has to be negotiated with Ottawa??

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Nearly 400,000 gallons of oil spill from Keystone pipeline in North Dakota

 

https://nypost.com/2019/10/31/nearly-400000-gallons-of-oil-spill-from-keystone-pipeline-in-north-dakota/

 

More than 380,000 gallons of oil spilled from the Keystone pipeline in North Dakota this week, one of the largest onshore crude spills in the past decade.

But in another thread you are pushing for wider highways to accommodate more vehicles. Are you really an environmentalist or just anti Alberta?

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

But in another thread you are pushing for wider highways to accommodate more vehicles. Are you really an environmentalist or just anti Alberta?

We will need 4 lane highways  for all our electric vehicles now we are moving to ....  you should see how many electrics on the road now in Vancouver...  its pretty cool to see. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

But in another thread you are pushing for wider highways to accommodate more vehicles. Are you really an environmentalist or just anti Alberta?

I notice you don't comment on a pipeline spill... yet you want to see an expanded pipeline going through my region..... 

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

 So it's provincial however has to be negotiated with Ottawa??

Short answer: Yes, a province can hold a referendum but must then negotiate the terms of its separation from Canada.

[Ryan Strome]

14 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

We will need 4 lane highways  for all our electric vehicles now we are moving to ....  you should see how many electrics on the road now in Vancouver...  its pretty cool to see. 

You should buy one.

9 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Short answer: Yes, a province can hold a referendum but must then negotiate the terms of its separation from Canada.

So what I said.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[Ryan Strome]

14 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I notice you don't comment on a pipeline spill... yet you want to see an expanded pipeline going through my region..... 

I noticed you didn't comment on Japan getting set to dump nuclear waste in the Pacific that will travel to your region....

Edited November 1, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[kingofsurrey]

14 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I noticed you didn't comment on Japan getting set to dump nuclear waste in the Pacific that will travel to your region....

Didn't realize Canada feds and CDN supreme court had input on Japanese government policy.... wow. learn something new everyday. thanks. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Poor implementation =\= poor plan.

 

The plan was poor. It had nothing to do with the implementation, the plan to start with was flawed.  PET was trying to put his control on the price of a volatile market.  He was trying to take control over a market he had no business in.  He should have built the refinery and pipelines, not added a export tax and not force albertans to sell to canadians at a discounted rate.  That would have allowed Canadians to rely on domestic product instead of buying from foreign companies.  It would have added job growth, it would have allowed oil production to breath during the down turn and it would have set this country up for massive success.  Unfortunately the group you are using fantasy what if's to defend has no interest in allowing the west to succeed.

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Both sides deserve some blame on not sitting down like grown ups and hammering out a plan that worked for everyone.

Alberta didn't even get an option, it was enforced on them, you seem to be forgetting the Liberal motto.  "Screw the West, we'll take the rest. ... Marc Lalonde"  The guy who was the brain child of NEP.  The same guy who said "The major factor behind the NEP wasn’t Canadianization or getting more from the industry or even self-sufficiency. The determinant factor was the fiscal imbalance between the provinces and the federal government,"

 

So which side do you think didn't want to sit down like grown ups?  

 

Like I said, had PET not been got his greedy control hands into the plan, it might have worked even with the down turn of oil.  He openly admitted he had little care for the well being of the citizens in the west and he single handedly destroy the opportunity for a legit NEP, Not Alberta. 

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Imagine what we ALL could have had if NEP want tuned by a bunch of petulant politicians

 

imagining is taking the cherry picked parts, it's a fantasy world and not taking into consideration the actual facts of what happened.  Yes it would be nice to have all the positive without the negatives.  

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Never mind Alberta  squandering the good years.

NEP destroyed the heritage fund.

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

You wouldn't need to 'bank roll  the rest of Canada'

 

I wonder what your response to this would be if the roles were reversed and this was a bunch of lefty hippies in Quebec whining about how 'the rest of Canada is screwing them off producing marijuana' or something.

 

Because it's oil and because it's 'you', somehow it's not petulant whining...

you have a clear lack of knowledge and clear lack of understanding yet feel justified in your opinion. i'd suggest you do some more research to get a broaden your understanding before you solidify you're opinion, I have posted more than enough factual information on this thread,  from over a half dozen sources, but if that's not enough, Please do your own.  Don't just assume you have background based on the information you've heard one or two people post in this thread.  

[Curmudgeon]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

You should buy one.

So what I said.

There is no hair you cannot split.

[Ryan Strome]

5 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

There is no hair you cannot split.

I see it the other way. You said you wanted to correct me and then said what I said was correct. 

[Ryan Strome]

8 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Didn't realize Canada feds and CDN supreme court had input on Japanese government policy.... wow. learn something new everyday. thanks. 

As you post something that happened in the US. Isn't protecting the environment a global issue? I mean the south Korean's are very concerned..

My point is you only want to hurt Alberta because you watch an anti Alberta documentary. 

[RUPERTKBD]

9 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I noticed you didn't comment on Japan getting set to dump nuclear waste in the Pacific that will travel to your region....

Actually, it will most likely travel to my region. (or more accurately the east coast of Haida Gwaii)

 

That being said:

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/japan-dump-fukushima-nuclear-waste/

 

We can expect KoS (and a whole bunch of Haida) to get upset, when Japan actually decides to do it....

[RUPERTKBD]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/elections/give-me-a-call-lone-ndp-alberta-mp-open-to-joining-liberal-cabinet-but-wont-cross-floor/ar-AAJFYVG?li=AAggNb9

Quote

 

As Justin Trudeau searches for ways to include Alberta and Saskatchewan in his new minority government, one person he might want to phone is the NDP's newly elected Edmonton MP.  

Heather McPherson, the lone progressive Alberta MP in a blue sea of Conservatives, has a message for the Liberals, who were mostly shut out of Western Canada. The Edmonton-Strathcona MP said she's open helping the Liberal government as it attempts to fill a void after voters rejected Liberal MPs at the ballot box in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

"I think it's important that we look at how we can represent Alberta," McPherson said. "If the prime minister is interested in having somebody from Alberta that is a New Democrat, then he is he's always able to give me a call."

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

6 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/elections/give-me-a-call-lone-ndp-alberta-mp-open-to-joining-liberal-cabinet-but-wont-cross-floor/ar-AAJFYVG?li=AAggNb9

 

Lol so you think that would help?

[Ryan Strome]

15 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Actually, it will most likely travel to my region. (or more accurately the east coast of Haida Gwaii)

 

That being said:

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/japan-dump-fukushima-nuclear-waste/

 

We can expect KoS (and a whole bunch of Haida) to get upset, when Japan actually decides to do it....

Kos had no clue about this.

[JM_]

14 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

If Ottawa stands in the way of projects to make all Canadians richer then we don't contribute to equalization. 

Thats not good faith negotiation, thats extortion. 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/why-leaving-canada-makes-sense-for-alberta-and-u-s-would-likely-welcome-a-new-state

 

^ this is one of the saddest, and stupidest, things I've read so far on this topic. 

 

Alberta separating from Canada, only to join with the US, completes the Alberta neutering process. Things like air travel and flow of goods would fall under rules we already have in place with the US, and BC e.g., would be just fine in that regard. It would all be pre-negotiated  

 

Also, there would be literally no reason for BC to not buy oil from Washington State. 

 

But yeah. #wexit 

[RUPERTKBD]

23 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Lol so you think that would help?

Don't know. I guess it depends on whether Albertans want to be included in the Federal discourse, or if they prefer to complain about how JT is ignoring them....

[Ryan Strome]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Thats not good faith negotiation, thats extortion. 

We learned it from Ottawa.