TSN's All Time Canuck team

[Gurn]

4 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

Quinn is the best dman in franchise history already. Change my mind 

Hey, I loved Pat Quinn as a D man, but there are other guys worth mention.

[NexusRift]

On 5/11/2020 at 2:52 PM, khay said:

For me, that line didn't make any sense at all. Completely opposite style of play. Bure will die of impatience waiting for the cycle. 

 

Perhaps. But Bure had great hands so the slap pass would've worked often. And let's not forget the patented Sedin long bank pass. With a streaking Bure able to negate any icing calls, this play would've resulted in multiple opportunities, 100% shots on goal, and who knows how many goals!

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, NexusRift said:

Perhaps. But Bure had great hands so the slap pass would've worked often. And let's not forget the patented Sedin long bank pass. With a streaking Bure able to negate any icing calls, this play would've resulted in multiple opportunities, 100% shots on goal, and who knows how many goals!

Let’s not forget that Bure was so talented that he’d easily be able to get in there and add to the washing machine cycle.    That said I tend to agree that his talents might be wasted on that line - H would be looking for Daniel too often and that line needs a guy to get the puck (not that Bure was a slouch in that area - id pick Linden out of R wingers/centers to do that job).  He could finish too and sure he’d be a PPG plus on that line and he could take draws...insert Ronning at center to take over his role and cut someone else.  Also Mogilny Federov Bure was a line (and possibly the best junior line ever) - sure Mogilny is more then up to the task to play the left side ... something TSN didn’t consider.

[khay]

Interesting thing to note is that we have like 11 players out of 19 players that were with the team in the 2000/2010's.

 

Luongo,

Ohlund, Salo, Edler, Bieksa

Daniel, Henrik, Burrows, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Kesler.

 

I'm not counting Linden as his best years with the Canucks were during the 90's.

 

Compare that to Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg that were founded during similar time period (in the 70's/80's).

 

Edmonton has 4. Two of them are current players, McDavid and Draisaitl.

Winnipeg has 5. 3 current payers.

Calgary has 6. Two of them are current players.

 

Obviously Edmonton's team is filled with players from the 80's dynasty team and that makes total sense.

 

But it just goes to show how little they had after the 80's. Their best player since 1990 cup win and before getting lucky with Draisaitl and McDavid are... Smyth and Hemsky.

In 25 years, that's all they could find of the players that had success while being faithful enough to the team and the city to play for them long enough (about 3 seasons or 225 games was the criteria).

 

Calgary obviously had some success in the 2000's, although it wasn't a long sustained success but they had a good team with Iginla and Kipper leading the way.

 

Winnipeg basically didn't have any prolonged success. Although they have quite a few great players sprinkled throughout the roster but most of them are from different playing eras i.e., not much overlap in their playing time to actually build something long term.

 

Obviously we are missing a cup but looking back, the Canucks had some 2+ decade of prolonged and consistent success. I think it goes back to Pat Quinn building the foundation with Linden leading to probably the most successful period at the time, in the early to mid 90's. Then, a bit of rebuilding years but draft picks like Ohlund and the trade that Pat Quinn made to get us Naslund were the foundations needed to take us to the next phase of the franchise, 2001 - 2015. That's 15 year period in which we missed the playoffs only like three times (2006, 2008 and 2014). This is the type of success only bested by the likes of Red Wings, Avs, and perhaps Blues during the similar time period.

 

2016-2019 were rebuilding years, first time that we actually had to do a complete rebuild rather than a retool in 20 years. 

 

I just hope the core pieces that are set up during this rebuild takes us on a run for another 20 years. When TSN does the "all time 7", 20 years later, I hope it will be littered with players from the next era of players 2020-2040 and multiple cups to go along with.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

51 minutes ago, khay said:

I just hope the core pieces that are set up during this rebuild takes us on a run for another 20 years. When TSN does the "all time 7", 20 years later, I hope it will be littered with players from the next era of players 2020-2040 and multiple cups to go along with.

 

For some reason I'm really hoping that whenever Markstrom is at the end of his Canucks time, we trade him for something young and awesome and keep the Linden asset legacy going.

 

We managed to get something of value for some great guys on their last legs before...

 

Richard Brodeur was assumed to be dead in the water and we got Steve Weeks who won a playoff game for us the next year in the legendary 1989 Calgary series.  And King Richard himself stepped in for a playoff win that year for the Hartford Whalers against the vastly superior Montreal Canadiens, and went out with one good last hurrah.

 

Kirk McLean got us Sean Burke, who actually had a decade of good hockey left in him, but we mismanaged that and ended up with Garth Snow and the goalie graveyard.

 

Cory Schneider obviously got us our current captain.

 

Gary Smith got us Cesare Maniago.

 

Murray Bannerman as a DiPietro-like prospect got us Pit Martin, before he went on to become an All-Star.

 

Lu obviously got us Markstrom, and boy are we lucky now that he cleared waivers when we put him out there.

 

Anyway, we have a decent history of getting at least something for our goalies when their Canucks run is at an end.

[khay]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

For some reason I'm really hoping that whenever Markstrom is at the end of his Canucks time, we trade him for something young and awesome and keep the Linden asset legacy going.

 

We managed to get something of value for some great guys on their last legs before...

 

Richard Brodeur was assumed to be dead in the water and we got Steve Weeks who won a playoff game for us the next year in the legendary 1989 Calgary series.  And King Richard himself stepped in for a playoff win that year for the Hartford Whalers against the vastly superior Montreal Canadiens, and went out with one good last hurrah.

 

Kirk McLean got us Sean Burke, who actually had a decade of good hockey left in him, but we mismanaged that and ended up with Garth Snow and the goalie graveyard.

 

Cory Schneider obviously got us our current captain.

 

Gary Smith got us Cesare Maniago.

 

Murray Bannerman as a DiPietro-like prospect got us Pit Martin, before he went on to become an All-Star.

 

Lu obviously got us Markstrom, and boy are we lucky now that he cleared waivers when we put him out there.

 

Anyway, we have a decent history of getting at least something for our goalies when their Canucks run is at an end.

Markstrom -> Luongo -> Bertuzzi -> Linden. 

 

Linden is actually still contributing to the team! If like you said, we can turn Markstrom into another asset, his legacy would continue lol.

 

I wonder which other former players are still "contributing" to their teams.

 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, khay said:

Markstrom -> Luongo -> Bertuzzi -> Linden. 

 

Linden is actually still contributing to the team! If like you said, we can turn Markstrom into another asset, his legacy would continue lol.

 

I wonder which other former players are still "contributing" to their teams.

 

 

 

 

Linden also ended up getting us one of the Sedins.   The trade that gave us a big part of the WCE team - and a massive part of the Sedin team in Sedin plus Luongo..and now it’s looking like we could have one of the best goalies in franchise history in JM.   Incredible really.  Wonder how it compares to Gretzky getting traded to LA.  EDM should have become a powerhouse in the mid-nineties but never did.   Guess they did get Doug Weight...but whoopy-do really ha ha. 

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Linden also ended up getting us one of the Sedins.   The trade that gave us a big part of the WCE team - and a massive part of the Sedin team in Sedin plus Luongo..and now it’s looking like we could have one of the best goalies in franchise history in JM.   Incredible really.  Wonder how it compares to Gretzky getting traded to LA.  EDM should have become a powerhouse in the mid-nineties but never did.   Guess they did get Doug Weight...but whoopy-do really ha ha. 

 

I tried to think of other trades that kept on giving.  I really couldn't think of any that were still putting food on the table 25 years later or whatever.

 

I think Dale Hawerchuk kept getting turned into something of value by Winnipeg for a while, from Housley through a few guys to Craig Janney where it petered out.  Nowhere near Linden length.  However...

 

Denis Savard was still living on in Chicago many years later as Troy Brouwer and eventually petered out a few years ago as Dale Weise.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I tried to think of other trades that kept on giving.  I really couldn't think of any that were still putting food on the table 25 years later or whatever.

 

I think Dale Hawerchuk kept getting turned into something of value by Winnipeg for a while, from Housley through a few guys to Craig Janney where it petered out.  Nowhere near Linden length.  However...

 

Denis Savard was still living on in Chicago many years later as Troy Brouwer and eventually petered out a few years ago as Dale Weise.

Pretty incredible really..Initially the trade had two main pieces in McCabe (the main players) and Bertuzzi... and the third rounder became Ruutu who went on to have a decent 630ish game career himself.   BM (who went on to play over 1100 games himself and garner Norris consideration on the way) became a first overall who Burke traded down for D Sedin in the second best draft table move in our clubs history.   Of course Bertuzzi became Luongo...The best part of this is we got Linden back a few years later and he scored 65 points in 64 games for us...

 

It sucked so bad watching what happened to that team when Keenan took over.  Those loyal to Linden were sent packing so there is also that - we lost fan favourites  Gelinas, McLean, Babych, and Gino.

 

Its impossible not to admire what Linden accomplished as a player for us and how trading him at 27 - after a decade of heart and soul service how much more that ended up giving back to the organization.  It’s also why myself and so many others were hoping the Sedins would get moved in their early 30’s to help boost the next core.  Turns out that trade from Feb 1998 (the same year I got hitched) - is still going strong in Markstrom.   Sure there must be other deals that have also kept on giving too...but arguably two HHOFers plus extras is one heck of a return.  And at the time it certainly didn’t feel like enough. 

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Pretty incredible really..Initially the trade had two main pieces in McCabe (the main players) and Bertuzzi... and the third rounder became Ruutu who went on to have a decent 630ish game career himself.   BM (who went on to play over 1100 games himself and garner Norris consideration on the way) became a first overall who Burke traded down for D Sedin in the second best draft table move in our clubs history.   Of course Bertuzzi became Luongo...The best part of this is we got Linden back a few years later and he scored 65 points in 64 games for us...

 

Yeah, even as an old man about to get healthy scratched into oblivion the next season, Linden still led the entire team in playoff scoring in 2007.  More points than either Sedin or Naslund.

 

The true heroes know how to get it done in the playoffs, even as old warhorses.

 

When we traded Brodeur for a worn out backup goalie in 1988, he stepped in for a playoff win for the underdog Whalers (sound familiar) against the powerhouse Canadiens.  Got to go out with one final little blaze of glory.

 

I've mentioned Babych's goal to send the Flyers into overtime in their elimination game in 98.

 

The year after we let Ronning go, he led Phoenix in playoff scoring.  A few years after that, he made a fool out of us in the 2003 comeback by Minnesota.

 

Lidster, who scored the goal to get us into overtime in game 7 of the 1989 Calgary series ended up beating us for the Cup in 1994.

 

McLean never played another playoff game after Vancouver.  But if he had, I bet he would have surprised people just like old man Bill Ranford did for Detroit in '99.

 

These guys don't know how to do anything but get it done when the chips are down.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah, even as an old man about to get healthy scratched into oblivion the next season, Linden still led the entire team in playoff scoring in 2007.  More points than either Sedin or Naslund.

 

The true heroes know how to get it done in the playoffs, even as old warhorses.

 

When we traded Brodeur for a worn out backup goalie in 1988, he stepped in for a playoff win for the underdog Whalers (sound familiar) against the powerhouse Canadiens.  Got to go out with one final little blaze of glory.

 

I've mentioned Babych's goal to send the Flyers into overtime in their elimination game in 98.

 

The year after we let Ronning go, he led Phoenix in playoff scoring.  A few years after that, he made a fool out of us in the 2003 comeback by Minnesota.

 

Lidster, who scored the goal to get us into overtime in game 7 of the 1989 Calgary series ended up beating us for the Cup in 1994.

 

McLean never played another playoff game after Vancouver.  But if he had, I bet he would have surprised people just like old man Bill Ranford did for Detroit in '99.

 

These guys don't know how to do anything but get it done when the chips are down.

You bet.  I hope the new team we have emerging can imitate that in some respect.  Lindens teams almost always got us at least one round - and the ones we didn’t were still well fought series.   It’s kind of shocking that with all that firepower the post Naslund Sedin teams only got past the first round once or twice . I’d take mediocre to very good regular seasons and epic playoff performances over presidents trophies any day.   It’s also why Linden will be the greatest Canuck ever until the day we finally win a cup. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by IBatch

[khay]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

You bet.  I hope the new team we have emerging can imitate that in some respect.  Lindens teams almost always got us at least one round - and the ones we didn’t were still well fought series.   It’s kind of shocking that with all that firepower the post Naslund Sedin teams only got past the first round once. I’d take mediocre to very good regular seasons and epic playoff performances over presidents trophies any day.   It’s also why Linden will be the greatest Canuck ever until the day we finally win a cup. 

Firepower gets you nowhere if your goalie almost always finds a way to allow one more goal than the other team (opposite of Grant Fuhr -- always one goal less). And, WCE team was going against teams that had salaries twice higher in Detroit and Colorado in their first 2 years.

 

That's why I hated McCaw as the owner. They were so focussed on recouping the money they lost in the late 90's that they refused to spend more than 45 million dollars when the other teams were spending 60+, 70+. If the WCE team had a McLean or Luongo, they had a legitimate shot at beating Detroit in 2002. 

 

With a good goalie, that team would've beaten Minnesota in 2003. And without Moore elbow and with Bert in the lineup and Nazzy healthy, that team gets past Calgary with a good goalie. Moore elbow screwed up quite a lot of things for that team. And obviously, 2005 season was lost.

 

In a parallel universe, where Moore elbow doesn't happen and our goalie is more clutch, WCE's prime and window to win would have overlapped significantly with beginning of Sedins and Kesler's prime years. Salary cap may have been a problem but with so many young guys like Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Hansen, and etc coming up, I think the team would have been able to fill the roster with cheap yet quality players to win at least one cup.

 

 

[IBatch]

54 minutes ago, khay said:

Firepower gets you nowhere if your goalie almost always finds a way to allow one more goal than the other team (opposite of Grant Fuhr -- always one goal less). And, WCE team was going against teams that had salaries twice higher in Detroit and Colorado in their first 2 years.

 

That's why I hated McCaw as the owner. They were so focussed on recouping the money they lost in the late 90's that they refused to spend more than 45 million dollars when the other teams were spending 60+, 70+. If the WCE team had a McLean or Luongo, they had a legitimate shot at beating Detroit in 2002. 

 

With a good goalie, that team would've beaten Minnesota in 2003. And without Moore elbow and with Bert in the lineup and Nazzy healthy, that team gets past Calgary with a good goalie. Moore elbow screwed up quite a lot of things for that team. And obviously, 2005 season was lost.

 

In a parallel universe, where Moore elbow doesn't happen and our goalie is more clutch, WCE's prime and window to win would have overlapped significantly with beginning of Sedins and Kesler's prime years. Salary cap may have been a problem but with so many young guys like Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Hansen, and etc coming up, I think the team would have been able to fill the roster with cheap yet quality players to win at least one cup.

 

 

Post Naslund Sedin team means after Naslund.. Luongo virtually shut the door his first crack at it vs an equally impressive Turco and what a breath of fresh air.  No arguments that the WCEs weak link was goaltending for sure - even if the Sedins peaked a few years earlier I’m not sure it would have been enough.   The point is Linden always stepped it up another notch come playoff time - same with Ronning, Babych, Courtnall and Adams for that matter but especially Linden.  Most players take a dip in stats in the post season so not knocking anyone - it’s a rare player that consistently bumps his play in the second season though - and I’m hoping we have some more of those guys coming up now and look forward to finding out. 

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Post Naslund Sedin team means after Naslund.. Luongo virtually shut the door his first crack at it vs an equally impressive Turco and what a breath of fresh air.  No arguments that the WCEs weak link was goaltending for sure - even if the Sedins peaked a few years earlier I’m not sure it would have been enough.   The point is Linden always stepped it up another notch come playoff time - same with Ronning, Babych, Courtnall and Adams for that matter but especially Linden.  Most players take a dip in stats in the post season so not knocking anyone - it’s a rare player that consistently bumps his play in the second season though - and I’m hoping we have some more of those guys coming up now and look forward to finding out. 

 

Those are special players.  Goring and Nystrom were that way.  Somehow Bossy actually found a way to be even better in the playoffs, which was ridiculous.

 

And I mentioned Reinhart in another thread.  The guy's playoff numbers some years were unbelievable.

 

Man, I hope some of this new core has that in their DNA.  You never really know until they are battle tested.  I mean, sometimes you can make a good guess from their previous work like Smyl and Brodeur in their Memorial Cup days, but not often.

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Those are special players.  Goring and Nystrom were that way.  Somehow Bossy actually found a way to be even better in the playoffs, which was ridiculous.

 

And I mentioned Reinhart in another thread.  The guy's playoff numbers some years were unbelievable.

 

Man, I hope some of this new core has that in their DNA.  You never really know until they are battle tested.  I mean, sometimes you can make a good guess from their previous work like Smyl and Brodeur in their Memorial Cup days, but not often.

Horvat could be one to do it / clutch.  Miller plays that way now - if he steps it up then man will we be lucky.   JV..who knows.  EP and QHs have lots of time and hopefully will get lots of tries - both seem competitive enough that’s for sure.