[Discussion] Tampa Bay and cap space. Stamkos not on untouchable list

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes it’s entirely out of the question.   Stamkos would watch his contract shrink by 15%.   Going from the lowest tax bracket to one of the leagues highest. 

There was a player agent that said that there are ways around the taxes that pretty much even things out for the most part for most teams or at least closes the gap significantly.

 

Perhaps Stamkos simply took less to stay with the team that drafted him and wanted to help win a Cup there (mission accomplished and made the right decision to not go to the gong show that is the Maple Leafs). There's also the chance that he didn't want the Toronto spotlight.

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

There was a player agent that said that there are ways around the taxes that pretty much even things out for the most part for most teams or at least closes the gap significantly.

 

Perhaps Stamkos simply took less to stay with the team that drafted him and wanted to help win a Cup there (mission accomplished and made the right decision to not go to the gong show that is the Maple Leafs). There's also the chance that he didn't want the Toronto spotlight.

Ha ha payer agent like to see that article.    Player agents can spin it anyway they want too - cost of living - comparable real estate,  micro economics but at the end of the day they can’t escape death and taxes - and a player in TB, Vegas, Dallas or Florida can rest easy with their extra earnings and buy whatever they want to in whatever market they want too, be it TO, MTL,Vancouver or WNP with their US dollars which they all get paid in no matter where.   Please send the link I’d love to read it. 
 

Edit:  There was a ton of stuff written at the time about Stamkos and TO.   Their offer was massive.   The thing that was also written about it was how with his NMC he basically signed an identical deal in TB.  Without the limelight.   All the glory and what looks like a team friendly deal on the surface but only because taxes.  Take home is the same as a 10 million deal on TO.  Minus the NMC virtually identical.  Well not really because of term even better. 
 

 

This is a big deal.   In cap market it should be fair but it really isn’t.  I didn’t really care that much until Vegas came out of nowhere and went out to the final.   Now I do.   Even more so because 3 of the 4 teams with advantages made the final four.    Horvats deal at 4.8, BB at 5.25 and EPs and QHs at simalar “team friendly” deals would look nice right?  Yzerman is put on some mantel - my guess is like Babcock he’s going to fall from grace and not be the “amazing GM” for long.    Won’t be so easy with Detroit’s tax bracket.   And just to be clear - the CALI teams, NY teams, ONT and MTL teams have it worst.   There is a range from Dallas to them.

 

Edit:  I have a solution.  The solution is that every team but TB, Dallas, Florida and Vegas gets to have one marquee player up to 12% of the cap that doesn’t count against the cap at any given time.   It’s factually that extreme...like Marner, Kucherov, Price, AM stuff. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by IBatch

[theo5789]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ha ha payer agent like to see that article.    Player agents can spin it anyway they want too - cost of living - comparable real estate,  micro economics but at the end of the day they can’t escape death and taxes - and a player in TB, Vegas, Dallas or Florida can rest easy with their extra earnings and buy whatever they want to in whatever market they want too, be it TO, MTL,Vancouver or WNP with their US dollars which they all get paid in no matter where.   Please send the link I’d love to read it. 
 

Edit:  There was a ton of stuff written at the time about Stamkos and TO.   Their offer was massive.   The thing that was also written about it was how with his NMC he basically signed an identical deal in TB.  Without the limelight.   All the glory and what looks like a team friendly deal on the surface but only because taxes.  Take home is the same as a 10 million deal on TO.  Minus the NMC virtually identical.  Well not really because of term even better. 
 

 

This is a big deal.   In cap market it should be fair but it really isn’t.  I didn’t really care that much until Vegas came out of nowhere and went out to the final.   Now I do.   Even more so because 3 of the 4 teams with advantages made the final four.    Horvats deal at 4.8, BB at 5.25 and EPs and QHs at simalar “team friendly” deals would look nice right?  Yzerman is put on some mantel - my guess is like Babcock he’s going to fall from grace and not be the “amazing GM” for long.    Won’t be so easy with Detroit’s tax bracket.   And just to be clear - the CALI teams, NY teams, ONT and MTL teams have it worst.   There is a range from Dallas to them. 

I can't find an article and I think it was tweets from Allan Walsh, but I found the following Reddit

 

https://amp.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/iw4bas/allan_walsh_players_agent_players_in_canada_can/

 

 

Perhaps someone could find it. It probably is spin, but just saying that there could be been other factors why Stamkos chose to stay in Tampa as opposed to going to Toronto or wherever.

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I can't find an article and I think it was tweets from Allan Walsh, but I found the following Reddit

 

https://amp.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/iw4bas/allan_walsh_players_agent_players_in_canada_can/

 

 

Perhaps someone could find it. It probably is spin, but just saying that there could be been other factors why Stamkos chose to stay in Tampa as opposed to going to Toronto or wherever.

 

It wasn’t all about money for sure -  but really the money turned out pretty close in the end - and on that note ... Tavares and his 13 million offer in SJ compared to what he got in TO was also very close take home pay.   

Edited October 6, 2020 by IBatch

[mll]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Ha ha payer agent like to see that article.    Player agents can spin it anyway they want too - cost of living - comparable real estate,  micro economics but at the end of the day they can’t escape death and taxes - and a player in TB, Vegas, Dallas or Florida can rest easy with their extra earnings and buy whatever they want to in whatever market they want too, be it TO, MTL,Vancouver or WNP with their US dollars which they all get paid in no matter where.   Please send the link I’d love to read it. 
 

Edit:  There was a ton of stuff written at the time about Stamkos and TO.   Their offer was massive.   The thing that was also written about it was how with his NMC he basically signed an identical deal in TB.  Without the limelight.   All the glory and what looks like a team friendly deal on the surface but only because taxes.  Take home is the same as a 10 million deal on TO.  Minus the NMC virtually identical.  Well not really because of term even better. 
 

 

This is a big deal.   In cap market it should be fair but it really isn’t.  I didn’t really care that much until Vegas came out of nowhere and went out to the final.   Now I do.   Even more so because 3 of the 4 teams with advantages made the final four.    Horvats deal at 4.8, BB at 5.25 and EPs and QHs at simalar “team friendly” deals would look nice right?  Yzerman is put on some mantel - my guess is like Babcock he’s going to fall from grace and not be the “amazing GM” for long.    Won’t be so easy with Detroit’s tax bracket.   And just to be clear - the CALI teams, NY teams, ONT and MTL teams have it worst.   There is a range from Dallas to them.

 

Edit:  I have a solution.  The solution is that every team but TB, Dallas, Florida and Vegas gets to have one marquee player up to 12% of the cap that doesn’t count against the cap at any given time.   It’s factually that extreme...like Marner, Kucherov, Price, AM stuff. 

 

Link to article here:

 

and other of his tweets on the topic:

Quote

 

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Link to article here:

 

and other of his tweets on the topic:

 

 

Thx - will look at this.  But mortgages only happen IF you get a mortgage and really who’s getting one in TB or Vegas.  It costs no money to buy a mansion there compared to TO, VAN or MTL.  What an idiotic thing to bring up.   Plus these guys can still buy in CAN if they are CAN citizens and enjoy the same tax relief.

 

Edit:  ha ha what a goof - without reading much the comments say it all. Edit: not saying your a goof - but the agent.   

Edited October 6, 2020 by IBatch

[UKNuck96]

20 hours ago, peaches5 said:

He literally has a NMC he isn't going anywhere. Sign Cernak to an offer sheet and force their hand. They are going to have a hard time dumping players unless giving up picks.

because its that easy. As soon as there is a whiff of offersheets you can bet Cernak will get traded. They would get a better return than the offer sheet, plus im sure there are teams out there that could offer a better contract to Cernak so even if it did get to offersheets I doubt he would end here

[peaches5]

47 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

because its that easy. As soon as there is a whiff of offersheets you can bet Cernak will get traded. They would get a better return than the offer sheet, plus im sure there are teams out there that could offer a better contract to Cernak so even if it did get to offersheets I doubt he would end here

You can't trade an RFA qualified player until the end of the year. 

[UKNuck96]

5 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

You can't trade an RFA qualified player until the end of the year. 

That would require Cernak to sign the QO, at which point he would not be eligible for an Offer sheet. If you match an offer sheet you cannot trade them for a year

[peaches5]

31 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

That would require Cernak to sign the QO, at which point he would not be eligible for an Offer sheet. If you match an offer sheet you cannot trade them for a year

I might be wrong but I don't think he can be traded once he is offersheeted. I have never heard anyone say that. You'd hear about that anytime a player was offersheeted "oh, they are seeing how much they can get from via trade now" this doesn't happen. 

[mll]

1 hour ago, peaches5 said:

You can't trade an RFA qualified player until the end of the year. 

Montreal and Columbus just did.  Both Domi and Anderson were qualified by their former teams before the trade.  Players can still be traded after filing for arbitration.

 

 

1 hour ago, UKNuck96 said:

That would require Cernak to sign the QO, at which point he would not be eligible for an Offer sheet. If you match an offer sheet you cannot trade them for a year

If Cernak signs his qualifying offer it's the equivalent of signing a new contract.  Most players just let the offer-sheet lapse and negotiate a new contract instead.  Cernak's qualifying offer is only 735K and it's a two-way deal.  Those q.o. will automatically lapse on 18 October unless the team asks for a delay.  

 

If a player files for arbitration he can no longer sign an offer-sheet. Filing for arbitration also helps set a deadline by which a contract has to be signed and avoid having negotiations drag late into the off-season or even the start of camp.  If a player does not file he can still sign an offer-sheet. 

 

There is no interview period leading to free agency this year.  There is just 1 day between being able to talk to other teams about an offer-sheet and filing for arbitration - 10 October is the deadline to file and free agency opens up the 9th.  

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by mll

[peaches5]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Montreal and Columbus just did.  Both Domi and Anderson were qualified by their former teams before the trade.  Players can still be traded after filing for arbitration.

 

 

If Cernak signs his qualifying offer it's the equivalent of signing a new contract.  Most players just let the offer-sheet lapse and negotiate a new contract instead.  Cernak's qualifying offer is only 735K and it's a two-way deal.  Those q.o. will automatically lapse on 18 October unless the team asks for a delay.  

 

If a player files for arbitration he can no longer sign an offer-sheet. Filing for arbitration also helps set a deadline by which a contract has to be signed and avoid having negotiations drag late into the off-season or even the start of camp.   

 

There is no interview period leading to free agency this year.  There is just 1 day between being able to talk to other teams about an offer-sheet and filing for arbitration - 10 October is the deadline to file and free agency opens up the 9th . If a player does not file he can still sign an offer-sheet. 

 

Yea that was poorly worded I was meaning if he signs an offer sheet he can't be traded and Tampa would only be able to sign him or let him go for compensation. I have never seen a player who signed an offer sheet get traded I can't imagine its legal to do that.

[mll]

8 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

Yea that was poorly worded I was meaning if he signs an offer sheet he can't be traded and Tampa would only be able to sign him or let him go for compensation. I have never seen a player who signed an offer sheet get traded I can't imagine its legal to do that.

Correct.  Once a player signs an offer sheet he can no longer be traded by his current team.  His team has 7 days to match and is not allowed to trade him during that 7-day period.  If they match they can't trade him for a year either.  

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by mll

[Gaudette Celly]

Just like JT Miller -- another "cap dump" bum...

[UKNuck96]

3 hours ago, peaches5 said:

Yea that was poorly worded I was meaning if he signs an offer sheet he can't be traded and Tampa would only be able to sign him or let him go for compensation. I have never seen a player who signed an offer sheet get traded I can't imagine its legal to do that.

Except I wasn’t saying trade an offer sheeted player. I was saying if tampa heard any noises about offer sheets I’m sure they would pull the trigger on a trade before that happened.

 

way to try and roll back 

[peaches5]

5 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

Except I wasn’t saying trade an offer sheeted player. I was saying if tampa heard any noises about offer sheets I’m sure they would pull the trigger on a trade before that happened.

 

way to try and roll back 

huh? okay then what you said is literally idiotic.