Provost Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 The details will come out in the next day or two, but with travel restrictions it is almost certain we will have a taxi squad/extended roster. This is good news for us as it likely means we can shave some cap off by only carrying a 20 man official roster that counts towards the cap and just call up guys same day if we need them due to injury. The really interesting conundrum is who you have on the taxi squad. It may not be some of our top prospects because we want them developing and not sitting in the press box for long stretches. To me that gives a leg up to the older guys with lower ceilings who will lose less by not playing. To me our prospects will end up as: At forward it is easier because we have too many vets. Hoglander is the most interesting decision because they may feel that being with the team under their control for strength training may be more beneficial than playing minutes. It is not like his skill is going to develop a lot more in Sweden... it is the transition to our game and skating that will be most important. I don’t see him staying in the AHL long term though. Hoglander - AHL for 2 weeks then Rogle Baertschi - Taxi Squad McEwan - Roster/Taxi Squad Graovac - AHL Lind -AHL Bailey - Taxi Squad Hawyrluk - Taxi Squad Lockwood - AHL Gadjovich - AHL Eriksson - I wish AHL, but Taxi Squad Defence. This is where I think age will make the most difference. It makes more sense for Rathbone and Woo to be playing huge minutes in the AHL as a top pairing than being with the big club in the press box. Juolevi - Roster Rathbone -AHL Rafferty - Taxi Squad Chatfield - Taxi Squad Brisebois - Taxi Squad Woo - AHL Sautner - Taxi Squad Teves - AHL 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 so you are assuming that there will be an AHL seaon If that is the case, what does that roster look like? you have 5 forwards and 3 d in Utica I imaging that the agreement with Utica specifies X number of players sent from the canucks to Utica, Who are the rest? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, lmm said: so you are assuming that there will be an AHL seaon If that is the case, what does that roster look like? you have 5 forwards and 3 d in Utica I imaging that the agreement with Utica specifies X number of players sent from the canucks to Utica, Who are the rest? Utica will have to sign players if there is a season there. The NHL won’t give a second thought whether a bunch of lower league players have to fill rosters in the AHL. Nor would there be any rationale for them to have the sort of minimum player loan agreement that you “imagine” to be the case as your argument. It is literally the opposite... there are rules about having too many NHL players clogging up the AHL a big chunk of the ECHL has opted out of playing next season so there are a ton of players available for AHL rosters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) Something that hasn't been mentioned but which I believe deserves consideration is, would DiPietro be sent straight to Utica? If that's the case would we also sign another goalie for the taxi squad? Since with back-to-backs it only makes sense that injuries would happen, if only from overuse. Hope we could sign someone like Ryan Miller for the taxi squad (if he's not picked up by a team like Chicago). Edited December 15, 2020 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Provost said: Utica will have to sign players if there is a season there. The NHL won’t give a second thought whether a bunch of lower league players have to fill rosters in the AHL. Nor would there be any rationale for them to have the sort of minimum player loan agreement that you “imagine” to be the case as your argument. It is literally the opposite... there are rules about having too many NHL players clogging up the AHL a big chunk of the ECHL has opted out of playing next season so there are a ton of players available for AHL rosters. I thought that the agreement between the Canucks and Comets would have a number of how many players Vancouver would supply to Utica. You have suggested that Vancouver holds 7 players on the taxi squad. If all 31 teams do that then the AHL will be short 241 players That would be a pretty big hit to the Quality of AHL talent Also many Euro players have stayed home to play rather than coming to America to play, further diluting the talent. Do you still think it is useful to have Canuck top prospects playing in an unglorified ECHL setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 my question was, Are the Canucks obligated by their agreement with Utica to supply a set number of players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I'm definitely taking Graovac over Eriksson for the taxi squad; he actually looked decent last camp, puts in an honest effort, and can play center. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just now, lmm said: my question was, Are the Canucks obligated by their agreement with Utica to supply a set number of players? Canucks own Utica outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just now, King Heffy said: Canucks own Utica outright. right, I forgot about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I'm definitely taking Graovac over Eriksson for the taxi squad; he actually looked decent last camp, puts in an honest effort, and can play center. I would too... but Benning’s recent comments suggest the “good defensive” player isn’t going to be on the farm all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Provost said: The details will come out in the next day or two, but with travel restrictions it is almost certain we will have a taxi squad/extended roster. This is good news for us as it likely means we can shave some cap off by only carrying a 20 man official roster that counts towards the cap and just call up guys same day if we need them due to injury. The really interesting conundrum is who you have on the taxi squad. It may not be some of our top prospects because we want them developing and not sitting in the press box for long stretches. To me that gives a leg up to the older guys with lower ceilings who will lose less by not playing. To me our prospects will end up as: At forward it is easier because we have too many vets. Hoglander is the most interesting decision because they may feel that being with the team under their control for strength training may be more beneficial than playing minutes. It is not like his skill is going to develop a lot more in Sweden... it is the transition to our game and skating that will be most important. I don’t see him staying in the AHL long term though. Hoglander - AHL for 2 weeks then Rogle Baertschi - Taxi Squad McEwan - Roster/Taxi Squad Graovac - AHL Lind -AHL Bailey - Taxi Squad Hawyrluk - Taxi Squad Lockwood - AHL Gadjovich - AHL Eriksson - I wish AHL, but Taxi Squad Defence. This is where I think age will make the most difference. It makes more sense for Rathbone and Woo to be playing huge minutes in the AHL as a top pairing than being with the big club in the press box. Juolevi - Roster Rathbone -AHL Rafferty - Taxi Squad Chatfield - Taxi Squad Brisebois - Taxi Squad Woo - AHL Sautner - Taxi Squad Teves - AHL how close to the capdo you envision the 20 man roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, Provost said: I would too... but Benning’s recent comments suggest the “good defensive” player isn’t going to be on the farm all season. Suspect he's probably trying to spin it hoping someone takes him off our hands. There's no excuse for even inviting that useless bum to camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 9 hours ago, lmm said: I thought that the agreement between the Canucks and Comets would have a number of how many players Vancouver would supply to Utica. You have suggested that Vancouver holds 7 players on the taxi squad. If all 31 teams do that then the AHL will be short 241 players That would be a pretty big hit to the Quality of AHL talent Also many Euro players have stayed home to play rather than coming to America to play, further diluting the talent. Do you still think it is useful to have Canuck top prospects playing in an unglorified ECHL setting? That is 6, not 7 extra players. As per the post, carrying 20 guys on the active roster instead of 31 to save cap space. Petterson, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Boeser, Gaudette, Roussel, Motte, Sutter, Beagle, Virtanen as the "lock" forwards. McEwan as the fringe 12th guy. On a full 23 man roster you carry 1 extra forward at least... so make that Eriksson as the "normal" extra guy. That means the taxi squad of forwards adds Baertschi, Hawyrluk, and Bailey On defence Hughes, Schmidt, Edler, Myers, Benn as "locks" Then probably Juolevi as the 6th. On a full 23 man roster you carry 2 extra D, so add in Rafferty and Chatfield as "normal" depth roster players. That means an extra taxi squad of Rafferty, Sautner, and Brisebois 3 extra forwards and 3 extra D. That is 6 taxi squad guys compared to a normal 23 man roster. It doesn't get multiplied by 31 because only a few teams will be forced to do it because of cross border travel. I suspect all teams will be given the choice, to ensure no one complains about a competitive advantage... but the teams with farm clubs in the same country (or even city in many cases) would far prefer those guys to actually be playing minutes rather than mostly practicing for an entire season. Even if every team DID carry an extra 7 players ...again, do you think the NHL with billions of dollars of revenue at stake cares even slightly about the level of the competition in the AHL when they are scraping by trying to find solutions for their own league? Especially since there may not even be an AHL season in the end, at least one that is recognizable. They don't have the money to operate without fans and with the extra costs due to Covid. Most of the Euro leagues will be finishing their seasons as the AHL gets going. The KHL and SHL end just after the tentative start of the AHL season. So as the seasons goes, there will be a ton of available players who could be added to AHL rosters who wouldn't normally be available, that is a decision for the AHL and nothing to do with the NHL... they could delay the start of their season by another month to hope there will be more arenas that can have fans as vaccines roll out. They would then have amazing competition level taking on players from Euro leagues for almost the entire season. NHL teams would probably be onboard for that as their prospects are getting to play and may be nearby for possible adds to playoff rosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 My thought on the subject is that the Canucks young guns should be getting lots of ice time, so that either means, the big club full time or Utica full time. There is absolutely no reason this year to put any of these kids on a taxi squad, as there are enough veterans floating around that can be signed at 1 million dollars, that and the kids do not have to be used. That being said, the question is, who does not need development time? Who doesn't fit in to the Canucks long term plans? IMO, Eriksson, Baertschi, Graovac, Hawyrluk, Bailey, Rafferty, Kielly, and Benn should be considered for the taxi squad...the first reason is that Eriksson, Baertschi and Benn, will give you 3+ Million in cap relief, while still having them near by, the second reason would be that in the case of those 3, they are all winding down their careers, so the lack of playing time does not have the same impact on their development. The remaining players named, are all 4th line players, with little upside, therefore, not impacting their development in any large way. In the case of Rafferty and Kielly, we are looking at a fringe NHLers that are already 25 or almost 25, and Rafferty having a May 28th birthday and Kielly having a September birthday, meaning to me, that they only have a very little chance of surpassing their current ceilings or making a large impact at the NHL level. For those players not mentioned......Lind, Hoglander, Jasek, Lockwood, Brisebois, Chatfield, Sautner, and DiPietro, they should all be down in Utica getting meaningful minutes, if not playing fulltime on the big Club. So out of Eriksson, Baertschi, Graovac, Hawrluk, Bailey, Rafferty, and Kielly............pick your poison...........one or two will be left in Utica, but the 3 older ones, go on the Taxi squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Provost said: That is 6, not 7 extra players. As per the post, carrying 20 guys on the active roster instead of 31 to save cap space. Petterson, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Boeser, Gaudette, Roussel, Motte, Sutter, Beagle, Virtanen as the "lock" forwards. McEwan as the fringe 12th guy. On a full 23 man roster you carry 1 extra forward at least... so make that Eriksson as the "normal" extra guy. That means the taxi squad of forwards adds Baertschi, Hawyrluk, and Bailey On defence Hughes, Schmidt, Edler, Myers, Benn as "locks" Then probably Juolevi as the 6th. On a full 23 man roster you carry 2 extra D, so add in Rafferty and Chatfield as "normal" depth roster players. That means an extra taxi squad of Rafferty, Sautner, and Brisebois 3 extra forwards and 3 extra D. That is 6 taxi squad guys compared to a normal 23 man roster. It doesn't get multiplied by 31 because only a few teams will be forced to do it because of cross border travel. I suspect all teams will be given the choice, to ensure no one complains about a competitive advantage... but the teams with farm clubs in the same country (or even city in many cases) would far prefer those guys to actually be playing minutes rather than mostly practicing for an entire season. Even if every team DID carry an extra 7 players ...again, do you think the NHL with billions of dollars of revenue at stake cares even slightly about the level of the competition in the AHL when they are scraping by trying to find solutions for their own league? Especially since there may not even be an AHL season in the end, at least one that is recognizable. They don't have the money to operate without fans and with the extra costs due to Covid. Most of the Euro leagues will be finishing their seasons as the AHL gets going. The KHL and SHL end just after the tentative start of the AHL season. So as the seasons goes, there will be a ton of available players who could be added to AHL rosters who wouldn't normally be available, that is a decision for the AHL and nothing to do with the NHL... they could delay the start of their season by another month to hope there will be more arenas that can have fans as vaccines roll out. They would then have amazing competition level taking on players from Euro leagues for almost the entire season. NHL teams would probably be onboard for that as their prospects are getting to play and may be nearby for possible adds to playoff rosters. I am having difficulty following along here, So, question 1. is this whole conversation about running a 20 man team and having all spares on the taxi squad? If that is true, Question 2. What is the cap hit of your 20 man roster? I see how you got to 6 instead of 7 saying Loui would be with the big club either way. As would Rafferty and Chatfield. So I am with yoiu there. After that things get blurry because the NHL has said they will start play in 1 month, but have not ironed out a schedule, Canadian Division, re-aligned American divisions, taxi squad, ( number or cap inplications), the border, Bubble or home arenas. Out door arenas has been rumoured in 4 American cities The AHL has said they will start, but moved their start date back to Feb 1. They have similar questions to answer. 4 Canadian teams have Canadian AHL teams. That is a lot of work to do to start 2 leagues in 6 weeks. This is not a shot at you, but this all sounds like pie in the sky to me. So lets assume the NHL and AHL iron all that out in the next 4-6 weeks. Back to Q2. What is the Canucks cap hit with a 20 man roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lmm said: Back to Q2. What is the Canucks cap hit with a 20 man roster? Hey, I will take a stab at that................. Bartschi, Benn, and Eriksson on the Taxi Squad Ferland on LTIR Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Virtanen Rousell Gaudette Sutter Motte Beagle McEwen Hughes Hamonic (signed $1.5 M) Edler Schmidt Juolevi Myers Demko Holtby Eriksson..............................................................................$5,000,000 can not be burried Barrtschi..............................................................................$2,500,000 can not be burried Benn....................................................................................$1,000,000 can not be burried Luongo................................................................................$3,000,000 Spooner...............................................................................$1,000,000 All the Utica guys (Taxi Squad, are deemed as if in Utica unless used on the Canucks dues to injury) Edited December 16, 2020 by janisahockeynut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Not sure what I did above. I made a team on capfriendly exactly the same and it cap out with $3,500,000 cap to spend............so approx. 78,000,000 and that is with Sutter still here. Bonuses not paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Not sure what I did above. I made a team on capfriendly exactly the same and it cap out with $3,500,000 cap to spend............so approx. 78,000,000 and that is with Sutter still here. Bonuses not paid Ya... that is exactly the type of roster I think would happen if we have a taxi squad. It will also mean a huge trade boom between now and Christmas since teams who thought they were cap strapped could afford to add another fairly cheap player. If they don't really have to carry spares because they have taxi squad guys right there, that saves $2.1-3.2 million in money you can bury and use the player literally for the game if needed and then send back down. It isn't completely clear, but it doesn't seem to include the $1.7 million in overages we owe... so I think that 20 man roster leaves us a shade over $2 million with Hamonic signed. It is all LTIR, so we can't bank it for future bonuses owed... but it is enough to call up injury players and sign a guy with bonuses like Podkolzin when he is done his season. Edited December 16, 2020 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Provost said: Ya... that is exactly the type of roster I think would happen if we have a taxi squad. It will also mean a huge trade boom between now and Christmas since teams who thought they were cap strapped could afford to add another fairly cheap player. If they don't really have to carry spares because they have taxi squad guys right there, that saves $2.1-3.2 million in money you can bury and use the player literally for the game if needed and then send back down. It isn't completely clear, but it doesn't seem to include the $1.7 million in overages we owe... so I think that 20 man roster leaves us a shade over $2 million with Hamonic signed. It is all LTIR, so we can't bank it for future bonuses owed... but it is enough to call up injury players and sign a guy with bonuses like Podkolzin when he is done his season. There could be a limit on regular recalls from the taxi squad similar to the TDL. After the TDL teams can only make 4 regular recalls. Emergency recalls are unlimited. Teams have to first use their regular roster players before having recourse to the taxi squad. Under that scenario if a team is at 20 players, they won't be able to easily alternate players because of the recall limits. They could also introduce a minimum regular roster size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 Just now, mll said: There could be a limit on regular recalls from the taxi squad similar to the TDL. After the TDL teams can only make 4 regular recalls. Emergency recalls are unlimited. Teams have to first use their regular roster players before having recourse to the taxi squad. Under that scenario if a team is at 20 players, they won't be able to easily alternate players because of the recall limits. They could also introduce a minimum regular roster size. They "could" do any of that but I don't see any motivation for doing so. They would be adding the taxi squad so players are available in case of injury. Making it a competitive disadvantage by making it impossible for a team with injury trouble to recall players doesn't seem like it would make any sense. They just have to make sure all the team have a level playing field. There are also teams that have already said they plan on running a really slim roster already due to cap issues. The teams with a farm team co-located can do this easily. The CBA says a minimum 20 man roster, so they would have to open that up for negotiation to change it and make it more... again for no discernable reason aside from undoing what they are trying to fix with taxi squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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