ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, Alflives said: 1 / I think your 1 is wrong. 2/ I think your 2 is wrong. Hey Alf...haven't chatted for awhile. I explained why I put the values as I did, why do you place them where you do? (ie/ Miller worth more, Boeser worth less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: 33 goals and 82 points is a cap dump? Yes. He was craperolla in the TBay series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, ABNuck said: Hey Alf...haven't chatted for awhile. I explained why I put the values as I did, why do you place them where you do? (ie/ Miller worth more, Boeser worth less) Miller is very good player, who is on a great contract for a one season (and playoff) rental. Boeser is an okay player, who has a nasty QO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Yes. He was craperolla in the TBay series. Brah he was better than pettersson and makes less... is petey a cap dump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, Alflives said: It could be a bigger trade than we think. Miller + Myers for Marino + Kapanen We must get Rust... either rights or through F/A. If they give up Kap, they'll do all they can to keep Rust (so he'd be priced out of our market)...Rust is the key to a deal with the Pens. Marino + rights to Rust (pre-arranged signing with VAN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Miller is very good player, who is on a great contract for a one season (and playoff) rental. Boeser is an okay player, who has a nasty QO. Miller's future (age / contract) is a big killer to maximizing his return...if he was 2 years younger or had an additional year at the same cap hit as current then we could get the moon for him. Boeser's QO is meaningless...he can negotiate any deal he wants. If the deal to NJ is pre-arranged, he could sign there for 5-6x6mil and fit their compete window perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ABNuck said: We must get Rust... either rights or through F/A. If they give up Kap, they'll do all they can to keep Rust (so he'd be priced out of our market)...Rust is the key to a deal with the Pens. Marino + rights to Rust (pre-arranged signing with VAN). He already signed a new contract with pit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: He already signed a new contract with pit Yup, you're right. Dang, and at a pretty good contract for his age. Oh well...on to the next F/A...Forsberg anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, ABNuck said: Miller's future (age / contract) is a big killer to maximizing his return...if he was 2 years younger or had an additional year at the same cap hit as current then we could get the moon for him. Boeser's QO is meaningless...he can negotiate any deal he wants. If the deal to NJ is pre-arranged, he could sign there for 5-6x6mil and fit their compete window perfectly. Miller is worth a lot as a rental. Big body centre/wing who is skilled and nasty to play against and puts up over a ppg. Excellent rental. Boeser hasn't signed a new contract yet though, so his value is as of right now. QO is crazy high for him. Lowers his value a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 25 minutes ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said: Maybe florida would be willing to trade Reinhart to fix cap issues. To Van: Sam Reinhart Denisenko Michael Benning To Fla: Jt miller 50% retained Might seem weird at first but gives them cap savings of 2.6 mil for this year which will be huge for them and they arguably get the better player. Why are you retaining on one of the best players in the league??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 36 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I mean, I have certainly pushed the Miller to NJ for the 2nd but....wtf? Miller is a poor fit for NJ...doesn't fit their compete window. If they give up a good future prospect (the #2 this year), all they are guaranteed is 1 year of JT at a decent cap hit. After that the salary to production scale will not make sense once some of their other prospects need to get paid. They would effectively be giving up a current prospect (whoever they would pick at #2) + a future prospect (whoever they can't sign down the road and must move on from due to JT's anchor contract that he'd be due next year)...not a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Me_ said: Why are you retaining on one of the best players in the league??? retaining on Miller opens up the trade potential to nearly every team. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: Miller is worth a lot as a rental. Big body centre/wing who is skilled and nasty to play against and puts up over a ppg. Excellent rental. Boeser hasn't signed a new contract yet though, so his value is as of right now. QO is crazy high for him. Lowers his value a lot. That's exactly my point...he's a rental. The only teams that rent players are ones whose compete window is now. Teams who are looking at the future do not waste resources on rentals. It makes his market very narrow and as such, stunts his return. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: retaining on Miller opens up the trade potential to nearly every team. Absolutely no need to retain on JT...his contract next year to a contending team is worth it...it's the following years that will be a problem (the team that signs him may need to retain if they want to move him in his early thirties). No retention, his market is current contenders. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ABNuck said: That's exactly my point...he's a rental. The only teams that rent players are ones whose compete window is now. Teams who are looking at the future do not waste resources on rentals. It makes his market very narrow and as such, stunts his return. Miller is worth a lot as a 1C/2C for the Canucks. We don’t have another player like him. Careful what you wish for guys… this is not the best move out there. Re-signing Miller and fining other ways to create cap space is best. Edited May 30, 2022 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ABNuck said: That's exactly my point...he's a rental. The only teams that rent players are ones whose compete window is now. Teams who are looking at the future do not waste resources on rentals. It makes his market very narrow and as such, stunts his return. I totally agree. Miller's highest value was as a two playoff rental, so the last TDL. But he's still worth a lot as a one season (one playoff) rental. More than Boeser is worth, considering Brock's contract QO. I see Miller as returning Marino and Kapanen. I see Brock as maybe getting a second rounder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Me_ said: Miller is worth a lot as a 1C/2C for the Canucks. We don’t have another player like him. Careful what you wish for guys… this is not the best move out there. Re-signing Miller and fining other ways to create cap space is best. I do think we will re-sign Miller. It's going to be 7.75 x 7 years. But if we don't ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ABNuck said: Absolutely no need to retain on JT...his contract next year to a contending team is worth it...it's the following years that will be a problem (the team that signs him may need to retain if they want to move him in his early thirties). No retention, his market is current contenders. Depends on the trading partner. Just for e.g., take Vegas who is currently 200k over the cap for next season, but year after they have 17 mil open. If we retain, it makes it pretty easy for them to bring Miller aboard now, and have space for him in 2 seasons. Similar deal with Boston. Edited May 30, 2022 by JM_ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just now, Me_ said: Miller is worth a lot as a 1C/2C for the Canucks. We don’t have another player like him. Agree...but we also can't sign him beyond this year (age / contract value)...so we're kinda stuck (and other GM's know it). He is potentially a future OEL...still produces, but not at his contract value. To put it all into perspective, if JT Miller had exactly the same year he had, but on another team, what would you be willing to give up to get him for one year knowing that: 1/ His next contract could be a killer (anchor) for years to come, and 2/ Your team's compete window is still 2 years out so you won't have the player you traded for (Miller) at a decent contract when the window opens up. How much do you give up now for him? That is where I think his value tanks a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 minute ago, ABNuck said: Agree...but we also can't sign him beyond this year (age / contract value)...so we're kinda stuck (and other GM's know it). He is potentially a future OEL...still produces, but not at his contract value. To put it all into perspective, if JT Miller had exactly the same year he had, but on another team, what would you be willing to give up to get him for one year knowing that: 1/ His next contract could be a killer (anchor) for years to come, and 2/ Your team's compete window is still 2 years out so you won't have the player you traded for (Miller) at a decent contract when the window opens up. How much do you give up now for him? That is where I think his value tanks a bit. And your post is why Miller, if traded, will be going to Pittsburgh, or Boston. Two teams that are in closing windows. They can afford to give up guys in the middle of their careers because they will be rebuilding in a couple. So Marino and Carlo types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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