[Discussion] Canucks Development Success From 2006/2022

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No matter where our guys develop we need to get them to learn how to play a hard to play against style.  And, if they have it in them, to learn how to fight. We are way too easy to play against, especially in our top minute guys.  Sure would have liked to keep McEwen and Gadjovic.   

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

If Mtl can find one ( Arber Xhekaj ) then why not us. He's 21, 6'4"/238 and will go with any one and has sited up for 20 games so far this season. Why ??? it's recogniziing the need IMO

 

Glad that some recognize this is still an organizational need.   

[Fred65]

On 11/27/2022 at 11:09 PM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

 

EDIT: I realize I didn’t mention MG or really critique his record. And certainly drafting (as well as overall pick volume) and player development were major issues under that regime. I suppose I give them a bit of a pass since they were clearly “all in” on winning and very nearly delivered a Cup. Of course, MG should have done a much better job (drafting and developing) but he was pretty effective on his main goal, which was to put together a contender in Vancouver. 

Yeah most forget MG was on a hard hard push for the SC and I think we had a geat opportunity other than losing Hamhuis, Erhoff sperated shoulder, Edler broken hand and Rome suspended by Boston for the last 4 games. However he on the other hand  did make some good trades, UFO signings etc which filled in with the likes of Tanev  and trading for Markstrom, both home runs and eqquivalent to first round picks

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Yeah most forget MG was on a hard hard push for the SC and I think we had a geat opportunity other than losing Hamhuis, Erhoff sperated shoulder, Edler broken hand and Rome suspended by Boston for the last 4 games. However he on the other hand  did make some good trades, UFO signings etc which filled in with the likes of Tanev  and trading for Markstrom, both home runs and eqquivalent to first round picks

[Warhippy]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Did you take into account, that the Canucks won more games then any team except Detroit and SJ from 2000-2015?   That's important too. 

 

 

There is a better way to demonstrate our relative ineffectiveness to draft and develop players.    THN did this for about a decade but recently stopped (very very unfortunate - stupid ribbons for everyone now ... new owner and he's sucking badly).   They did something called ADP.  Average draft position.   Then ranked all the 21 and unders (still do but now it's just a letter grade - stupid because no comparisons anymore - everyone gets a participation trophy more or less) ... Then ranked each team using 10 NHL scouts.   Then factored in where they drafted over a four year period.   And arrived at a number.   JB was usually around plus 4.   In other words, when we sucked sucked (rebuild that was never called that), we averaged around 7th but picked like we had four years of 3rd overalls.   That's currently represented on the team with Demko, EP,  QHs and Brock.   Used to have rapey JV too.   
 

Agree we suck though.   And Burke also blew his 4th on Allen.   Quin whiffed two years in a row with Stajonov and Antoski.  But did draft Aucion,  Ohlund and Sopel.  And Bure, Linden and Nedved.  Plus others.  Burke was his right hand man back then too. 

 

One thing is for certain, each draft GMs expect one roster player and hope for two.  Nonis and Gillis left us with an 8 year gap which is unfortunate.   Hutton, Coho ... yikes!.  RIP Bourdon though. 

 

JB first draft was very decent.   Just like Nonis's (our last great draft really).  

 

If you want to see a good period of drafting, check out what Milford managed.   But don't cry when you see who else we could have had instead either lol.    Canucks have created a gap between QHs now.   That's going to hurt us. 

 

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

You need to forget about how many picks we've had past the 3rd round.   On average 12.5% of those picks combined - collectively - don't play 100 NHL games.   In other words, you don't get a Hansen often - or a Gaudette or a whomever.  Every 8 years maybe a Gaudette.  That's average. 

 

50% of second rounders though play 100 games.   About the exact same as picks 22 overall to the end of the second round.   Lind and Gads likely make that bar.    

 

If you want guys to play 200 games - then draft 15 and above.   That's important.   

Not about the draft specifically.  Any proper development program should at least chrun out a smattering of players by basic statistical averages.  but the Canucks just...didn't

 

I'm actually shocked looking at the numbers and comparables.  

[iceman64]

23 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I dunno.  Being a Canucks prospect these days is pretty hard

Really?! Try watching this team since absolute day one, first season don lever was captain, heard my first game in the back of a station wagon, there's no way a prospect is old enough to endure this sort of torture.. 

 Second, is enduring the sell the farm for a depthless roster year after year after year after year.. omfg!! Especially since it's never worked, you would think you'd get it at some point, no matter how close we got a few times, in the end we still got _hit..  

 And unless we farm like crazy for ELC'S to balance out the cap and quality ones, that whole scenario is never going to change. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

8 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Really?! Try watching this team since absolute day one, first season don lever was captain, heard my first game in the back of a station wagon, there's no way a prospect is old enough to endure this sort of torture.. 

 Second, is enduring the sell the farm for a depthless roster year after year after year after year.. omfg!! Especially since it's never worked, you would think you'd get it at some point, no matter how close we got a few times, in the end we still got _hit..  

 And unless we farm like crazy for ELC'S to balance out the cap and quality ones, that whole scenario is never going to change. 

 

 

That's about the sum of it eh

[J-23]

Brutal

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

Brutal

Isn't it?

 

The prospects thread is littered with the corpses of endlessly hyped prospects that literally never went anywhere.  So many of them

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Isn't it?

 

The prospects thread is littered with the corpses of endlessly hyped prospects that literally never went anywhere.  So many of them

Well that's the nature of it no?  Unless your name is McDavid or something, picks and prospects are crapshoots at best. 

 The NHL being the fastest, best league in the hockey world, it takes a full skillset to get in but you can't know how someone is going to perform when they get there, pretty sure the best that it gets is a educated guess.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Well that's the nature of it no?  Unless your name is McDavid or something, picks and prospects are crapshoots at best. 

 The NHL being the fastest, best league in the hockey world, it takes a full skillset to get in but you can't know how someone is going to perform when they get there, pretty sure the best that it gets is a educated guess.

While I'd normally agree, the fact remains that somehow; someway with the finest scouting in the world we have managed to produce numerous instances where we've either abandoned, given up on or just outright refused to develop players and have almost nobody to showcase that can be called a developed and viable NHL player since 2006.  They mostly stepped right in to the league as 1st round players or stayed in the NCAA/Europe meaning we held little control at all over their development.

 

It's a shocking statistic