Edit- Rick Tocchet Expected To Be Next Head Coach

[DSVII]

5 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It is not about the first round picks. It's the second, third, fourth and fifth round picks that Gillis routinely failed to capitalize on.

 

Forsling was a 5th round pick (different time period)

Edler was a 3rd round pick

Demko was a 2nd round pick

 

You don't just assume that the draft picks are junk because they're not a first round pick. We could've had some pretty good players in the later rounds, but drafting and development was CLEARLY an afterthought under Gillis.

Not first round, but first two rounds, picks in the top 100. More likely than not, your chances of finding a prospect who can play in the NHL lies at the top of the draft. You want picks in the top 100 otherwise your chance of whiffing it are much greater.

 

As for development, he identifed this as a weakness and created the Utica comets to give his team more control over player development, since under the Chicago Wolves he had no control over deployment of Canucks prospects. It was something he laid the groundwork for when he realized he wasn't getting enough at the draft. I wouldn't say it's accurate that it was an afterthought, but during our president's trophy teams the priority was getting the team over the hump to win it all. 

 

I think it's a bigger indictment of Benning that he had better infrastructure set up that Gillis never had in terms of scouting staff and control of the farm team, and he didn't graduate anyone from it other than Demko in eight years. ( i am still rooting for Lockwood though)

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by DSVII

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

LOL and COVID and the flat cap NEVER happened

Last I checked, 31 other teams in the league also had to deal with flat cap and very few bungled it as badly as we did in terms of lost assets.

 

[AnthonyG]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Why on earth are you looking for such ridiculous validation?

 

Your comment was simply that Benning did more for this org than Gillis.

 

Gillis had 5.5 years in charge of the most successful team we've ever had.

 

Benning drafted top 10 the majority of his 7+ years as GM.  Had one single year where he did not spend to the cap.  And side by side with Buffalo, Arizona, Columbus, Florida, NJ, Ottawa, Montreal, Carolina, NYR, Dallas, Chicago, Edmonton, Toronto and Philadelphia had got hands down the WORST draft record for success and development as well as one of the worst overall winning percentages over that time period compared to all of those teams.

 

To suggest that somehow, some way THAT is the metric for success so beyond ludacris.  The revisionist history here is astonishing in its ignorance 

 

Keep tagging other people all you'd like.  You're on an island alone here champ

Hmm weird, yea lets move the goal posts some more and talk about TOR and EDM who drafted generational talent... and that is it.

Lmfao yea TOR sure did draft better LOLOL

2021 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	57	2	Matthew Knies	L	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2021 Entry	153	5	Ty Voit	R	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2021 Entry	185	6	Vyacheslav Peksa	G	IRBIS KAZAN
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	15	1	Rodion Amirov	L	Ufa Salavat Yulayev [KHL]
2020 Entry	59	2	Roni Hirvonen	C	Assat Pori [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	64	3	Topi Niemela	D	Karpat [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	106	4	Artur Akhtyamov	G	Kazan Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	122	4	William Villeneuve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2020 Entry	137	5	Dmitry Ovchinnikov	L	Novosibirsk Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	168	6	Veeti Miettinen	R	Espoo Jrs. (Finland)
2020 Entry	177	6	Axel Rindell	D	Jukurit Mikkeli [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	180	6	Joe Miller	C	Blake School (Minn. H.S.)
2020 Entry	189	7	John Fusco	D	Dexter Southfield (Mass. H.S.)
2020 Entry	195	7	Wyatt Schingoethe	F	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]
2020 Entry	213	7	Ryan Tverberg	C	Toronto Jr. Canadiens [OJHL]
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	53	2	Nicholas Robertson	L	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	31	3	4	7	4
2019 Entry	84	3	Mikko Kokkonen	D	Jukurit Mikkeli [SM-liiga]
2019 Entry	115	4	Mikhail Abramov	C	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2019 Entry	124	4	Nick Abruzzese	C	Chicago Steel [USHL]	9	1	0	1	2
2019 Entry	146	5	Michael Koster	D	Chaska [Minn. H.S.]
2019 Entry	204	7	Kalle Loponen	D	Karpat [Finland Jrs.]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	29	1	Rasmus Sandin	D	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	128	9	34	43	29
2018 Entry	52	2	Sean Durzi	D	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	107	8	43	51	78
2018 Entry	76	3	Semyon Der-Arguchintsev	C	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2018 Entry	83	3	Riley Stotts	C	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2018 Entry	118	4	Mac Hollowell	D	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	6	0	2	2	2
2018 Entry	149	5	Filip Kral	D	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	2	0	0	0	2
2018 Entry	156	6	Pontus Holmberg	R	Vasteras (Sweden-3)	28	4	7	11	6
2018 Entry	209	7	Zachary Bouthillier	G	Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2018 Entry	211	7	Semyon Kizimov	R	Togliatti-2 (Russia Jrs.)
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	17	1	Timothy Liljegren	D	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	107	8	26	34	32
2017 Entry	59	2	Eemeli Rasanen	D	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2017 Entry	110	4	Ian Scott	G	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2017 Entry	124	4	Vladislav Kara	L	Kazan [Russia-Jrs]
2017 Entry	141	5	Fedor Gordeev	D	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2017 Entry	172	6	Ryan McGregor	C	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2017 Entry	203	7	Ryan O'Connell	D	St. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	1	1	Auston Matthews	C	Zurich SC [Swiss-A]	449	280	225	505	88
2016 Entry	31	2	Egor Korshkov	L	Yaroslavl Lokomotiv [KHL]	1	1	0	1	0
2016 Entry	57	2	Carl Grundstrom	R	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]	166	26	20	46	70
2016 Entry	62	3	Joseph Woll	G	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	4	0	0	0	2
2016 Entry	72	3	J.D. Greenway	D	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry	92	4	Adam Brooks	C	Regina Pats [WHL]	43	6	5	11	2
2016 Entry	101	4	Keaton Middleton	D	Saginaw Spirit [OHL]	3	0	0	0	4
2016 Entry	122	5	Vladimir Bobylev	L	Victoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry	152	6	Jack Walker	L	Victoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry	179	6	Nicolas Mattinen	D	London Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry	182	7	Nikolai Chebykin	L	MVD Jrs (Russia)
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	4	1	Mitch Marner	R	London Knights [OHL]	471	154	353	507	154
2015 Entry	34	2	Travis Dermott	D	Erie Otters [OHL]	275	14	41	55	102
2015 Entry	61	2	Jeremy Bracco	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2015 Entry	65	3	Andrew Nielsen	D	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]
2015 Entry	68	3	Martins Dzierkals	R	Riga Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	95	4	Jesper Lindgren	D	MODO Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	125	5	Dmytro Timashov	L	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	45	4	5	9	16
2015 Entry	155	6	Stephen Desrocher	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2015 Entry	185	7	Nikita Korostelev	R	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	8	1	William Nylander	R	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]	483	159	231	390	118
2014 Entry	68	3	Rinat Valiev	D	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	12	0	0	0	2
2014 Entry	103	4	J.J. Piccinich	R	Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]
2014 Entry	128	5	Dakota Joshua	C	Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]	81	10	8	18	66
2014 Entry	158	6	Nolan Vesey	F	South Shore Kings [USPHL-Pr]
2014 Entry	188	7	Pierre Engvall	L	Frolunda (Sweden Jrs.)	210	39	39	78	75

 

hahahahahahahhaha how far are you going to stretch the goal posts dude?

 

Buffalo has had how many 1st overalls? 3 in the time JB was our GM?? Oh and 2 2nd overalls and a top 10 pick in every draft. One of those consolation prizes being Eichel.

But yea, keep moving the posts some more. Oh and.... Its funny you say Buffalo has done so much better than us.... Yet are 5pts ahead of us in the standings? lol

 

Edmonton.... Barely holding a playoff spot with McDavid and Draisaitl  carrying over 50% of their offense. Without either one of those players they are absolutely garbage. So yea, move to goal posts another couple feet. Whatever you need to help yourself feel like you are winning an argument. 

 

Montreal.... Lol seriously? How about that Sergachev trade eh? Or that Kotkaniemi selection? That all worked out great didnt it? Oh and we're tied with them... Remind me how they did so much better?

 

ARIZONA???? LOOOOOOOOOOL thats hilarious. How come ARZ is sh*ttier than us? If we are measuring the same time line of Bennings work vs those franchises you mention... Why arent they winning? 

 

CBJ...30th in the league and their drafting doesnt blow me away. PLD who they moved for Laine. Werenski... and thats about it that really stands out as top players. Which is probably why they are 30th in the league. 

 

 

Dallas??? Nothing in 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020. Sure they developed Hintz and Robertson, had a top 3 pick with Heiskanen and landed Oettinger. But other than that. Their drafting is the same if not worse. Benning has drafted and developed more NHLers overall. Sorry...

Robertson and Petterson have the same impact

Demko and Oettinger are quite comparable. As of right now I'd give the edge to Oettinger. 

Hughes and Heiskanen are much the same

 

New Jersey?? once again how many 1OAs?? Not only that but... 1 playoff appearance in 11 years??? They've been sh*t for soooooooooo long.

Also Pettersson>Hischier

 

FLORIDA??? did you do ANY research?? The majority of that team you are looking at was drafted previous to Bennings tenure. Plus Ekblad was 1OA. Oh look the goal posts keep moving.

 

LOL NYR this one might be my favourite

2021 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	16	1	Brennan Othmann	L	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2021 Entry	65	3	Jayden Grubbe	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
2021 Entry	75	3	Ryder Korczak	C	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2021 Entry	104	4	Brody Lamb	R	Dodge County [Wisc. H.S.]
2021 Entry	106	4	Kalle Vaisanen	R	TPS [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	112	4	Talyn Boyko	G	Tri-City Americans [WHL]
2021 Entry	144	5	Jaroslav Chmelar	R	Jokerit [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	208	7	Hank Kempf	D	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	1	1	Alexis Lafreniere	L	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]	177	36	34	70	57
2020 Entry	19	1	Braden Schneider	D	Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]	86	7	14	21	16
2020 Entry	60	2	Will Cuylle	L	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
2020 Entry	92	3	Oliver Tarnstrom	L	AIK Jrs. (Sweden)
2020 Entry	103	4	Dylan Garand	G	Kamloops Blazers [WHL]
2020 Entry	127	5	Evan Vierling	C	Barrie Colts [OHL]
2020 Entry	134	5	Brett Berard	F	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2020 Entry	165	6	Matthew Rempe	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2020 Entry	197	7	Hugo Ollas	G	Linkopings Jrs. (Sweden)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	2	1	Kaapo Kakko	R	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]	200	35	41	76	42
2019 Entry	49	2	Matthew Robertson	D	Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL]
2019 Entry	58	2	Karl Henriksson	C	Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	68	3	Zac Jones	D	Tri-City Storm [USHL]	38	1	7	8	6
2019 Entry	112	4	Hunter Skinner	D	Lincoln Stars [USHL]
2019 Entry	130	5	Leevi Aaltonen	F	Kalpa [Finland Jrs.]
2019 Entry	161	6	Adam Edstrom	C	Mora [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	205	7	Eric Ciccolini	R	Toronto Jr. Canadiens [OJHL]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	9	1	Vitali Kravtsov	R	Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL]	43	4	5	9	10
2018 Entry	22	1	K'Andre Miller	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	178	17	38	55	62
2018 Entry	28	1	Nils Lundkvist	D	Lulea HF [SweHL]	66	5	11	16	26
2018 Entry	39	2	Olof Lindbom	G	Djurgarden-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2018 Entry	70	3	Jakob Ragnarsson	D	Almtuna IS [Swe-1]
2018 Entry	88	3	Joey Keane	D	Barrie Colts [OHL]	2	0	0	0	2
2018 Entry	101	4	Nico Gross	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2018 Entry	132	5	Lauri Pajuniemi	R	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]
2018 Entry	163	6	Simon Kjellberg	D	Rogle-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2018 Entry	216	7	Riley Hughes	R	St. Sebastian (Mass. H.S.)
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	7	1	Lias Andersson	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	110	7	10	17	57
2017 Entry	21	1	Filip Chytil	C	Zlin ZPS HC [Czech]	288	54	61	115	70
2017 Entry	123	4	Brandon Crawley	D	London Knights [OHL]
2017 Entry	145	5	Calle Sjalin	D	Timra [Sweden-Jrs]
2017 Entry	157	6	Dominik Lakatos	R	Liberec Bili Tygri HC [Czech]
2017 Entry	174	6	Morgan Barron	C	St. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]	63	8	9	17	18
2017 Entry	207	7	Patrik Virta	L	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	81	3	Sean Day	D	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]	2	0	0	0	0
2016 Entry	98	4	Tarmo Reunanen	D	TPS Jrs (Finland)	4	0	1	1	0
2016 Entry	141	5	Tim Gettinger	L	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	16	0	1	1	0
2016 Entry	171	6	Gabriel Fontaine	C	Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL]
2016 Entry	174	6	Tyler Wall	G	Leamington (GOJHL)
2016 Entry	201	7	Ty Ronning	R	Vancouver Giants [WHL]
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	41	2	Ryan Gropp	L	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2015 Entry	62	3	Robin Kovacs	R	AIK [Swe-1]
2015 Entry	79	3	Sergey Zborovskiy	D	Regina Pats [WHL]
2015 Entry	89	3	Aleksi Saarela	C	Assat Pori [SM-liiga]	9	2	2	4	0
2015 Entry	113	4	Brad Morrison	C	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2015 Entry	119	4	Daniel Bernhardt	R	Djurgardens Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	184	7	Adam Huska	G	Slovakia U-18	1	0	0	0	0
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	59	2	Brandon Halverson	G	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2014 Entry	85	3	Keegan Iverson	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2014 Entry	104	4	Ryan Mantha	D	Indiana Ice [USHL]
2014 Entry	118	4	Igor Shesterkin	G	Spartak (Russia Jrs.)	132	0	1	1	2
2014 Entry	122	5	Richard Nejezchleb	R	Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]
2014 Entry	140	5	Daniel Walcott	L	Blainville-Boisbriand Armada [QMJHL]	1	0	0	0	5
2014 Entry	142	5	Tyler Nanne	D	Edina (Minn. H.S.)

 

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. LOL DUDE STOP EMBARASSING YOURSELF. The NYR team is mainly constructed from prior to 2014. Why couldnt Gillis do that?

Especially when you take a look at their "draft capital" @DSVII

2013 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2013 Entry	65	3	Adam Tambellini	L	Surrey Eagles [BCHL]
2013 Entry	75	3	Pavel Buchnevich	L	Cherepovets Jrs. (Russia)	409	124	184	308	160
2013 Entry	80	3	Anthony Duclair	L	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	470	120	132	252	163
2013 Entry	110	4	Ryan Graves	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]	264	24	65	89	140
2013 Entry	170	6	Mackenzie Skapski	G	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	2	0	0	0	0
2012 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	28	1	Brady Skjei	D	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	490	46	136	182	268
2012 Entry	59	2	Cristoval "Boo" Nieves	C	Kent School [Conn. H.S.]	76	5	14	19	24
2012 Entry	119	4	Calle Andersson	D	Farjestads Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2012 Entry	142	5	Thomas Spelling	R	Herning Blue Fox [Denmark]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	15	1	J.T. Miller	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	679	185	306	491	357
2011 Entry	72	3	Steven Fogarty	C	Edina H.S. (Minn.)	31	1	2	3	12
2011 Entry	106	4	Michael St. Croix	C	Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL]
2011 Entry	134	5	Shane McColgan	C	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]
2011 Entry	136	5	Samuel Noreau	D	Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	172	6	Peter Ceresnak	D	Trencin Jr. (Slovakia)
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	10	1	Dylan McIlrath	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]	66	3	2	5	121
2010 Entry	40	2	Christian Thomas	L	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	27	1	2	3	9
2010 Entry	100	4	Andrew Yogan	L	Erie Otters [OHL]
2010 Entry	130	5	Jason Wilson	L	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2010 Entry	157	6	Jesper Fast	R	HV71 Jr. [Swe-Jr]	591	80	136	216	140
2010 Entry	190	7	Randy McNaught	R	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	19	1	Chris Kreider	L	Andover H.S. (Mass.)	696	248	205	453	513
2009 Entry	47	2	Ethan Werek	C	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2009 Entry	80	3	Ryan Bourque	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	1	0	0	0	0
2009 Entry	127	5	Roman Horak	C	Ceske Budejovice Jrs. [Czech.]	84	6	13	19	16
2009 Entry	140	5	Scott Stajcer	G	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2009 Entry	170	6	Daniel Maggio	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
2009 Entry	200	7	Mikhail Pashnin	D	Mechel [Russia]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	20	1	Michael Del Zotto	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	736	63	199	262	284
2008 Entry	51	2	Derek Stepan	C	Shattuck St. Mary's (Minn)	855	181	329	510	214
2008 Entry	75	3	Evgeny Grachev	L	Yaroslavl Jrs. (Russia)	34	1	3	4	2
2008 Entry	90	3	Tomas Kundratek	D	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]	30	1	6	7	10
2008 Entry	111	4	Dale Weise	R	Swift Current Broncos [WHL]	513	55	70	125	355
2008 Entry	141	5	Chris Doyle	L	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2008 Entry	171	6	Mitch Gaulton	D	Erie Otters [OHL]

 

 

Very few picks, but high NHL production. due to...... DEVELOPMENT... Everyone say it with me. Duh-VEL-up-MENT

Pretty much all of them spent 2-4 years developing and this is the PERFECT example of why the NYR are successful today and we are not. They were able to draft and develop players while STILL being a very competitive team without tons of draft capital or high picks. Those players they developed are the reason they are a winning team today. 

Gillis sh*t the bed during that time and it was a massive set back for us. When will you figure that out?

 

Philly is absolute dogsh*t and their drafting supports my statement. Along with their record and the direction they are headed. Also once again... Pettersson>Patrick lol. 

 

Can you pick more teams with cores formed pre-Benning era and more 1st overalls and 2nd overalls to stretch the goal posts to the sun?

 

Also Sh*tcago...Saved them for last. 

Schmaltz is in ARZ, Dach is in MTL, DeBrincat is in OTT, Jokiharju is in CBJ... Lol almost every single NHLer they drafted is not even in their organization anymore. Lmfao so to say Sh*tcago did way better is one of the funniest things ive ever heard. They only won games because they had some of their core from their cup winning teams still playing. They dont have a single NHLer other than Kurashev whoever the f*** he is, playing for them. WELCOME TO THE DARK DAYS CHICAGO. Its going to be a very long stay. 

 

 

Thanks for the laughs dude, it was great. 

 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Master Mind said:

Saying "Gillass" is bringing something of value to a conversation?

 

Gillis was the GM of the most successful team in our franchise's history. Funny enough, his teams were the ones Kesler was most productive in, who you made a big deal about earlier.

 

His drafting was poor but that's no reason to hate on him. That 2011 run was fantastic and no amount of good drafting can top that unless it leads to a cup.

The whole argument was that his failures of drafting and developing are what set us so far back when Benning took over. Like how do you guys not see that or understand that?

Also its pretty easy to walk into an organization with players at their peak level and win and be successful. Chiarelli is living proof of that. Took over a Boston team who was in their prime or just about to enter their prime and won a cup. Have been one of the most dominant teams the least 15 years. Tim Thomas was the best goalie during his time. His numbers are far superior to anyone else and consistently. 

 

I made a point that Gillis did nothing other than add some sprinkles to the cake that was already baked and layered with icing. 

[AnthonyG]

18 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Last I checked, 31 other teams in the league also had to deal with flat cap and very few bungled it as badly as we did in terms of lost assets.

 

Yea lets take on more cap and re-sign Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli and then try to figure out how to get around the Demko, Hughes, Petey, Boeser contracts. Brilliant. Lets risk taking on more cap instead of shedding anything we can to preserve our youth on the roster and risk not being able to afford a deal or match an offer sheet.

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

I breezed through your hard work and found it hilarious when I read this, well there is a couple things I found hilarious. 1) I dont need the last 20 years of history when I already know it. 2) This was Benning vs Gillis not Benning vs Gillis, Burke and Nonis. Why are we talking about Burke and Nonis when I have clearly stated many times on these forums the work that they did and how crucial their drafting and the development of our prospects were in relation to the success of the Canucks, especially in that 2010-11 run and the 2012 back-to-back Presidents trophy winners. 

 

Gillis "successfully drafted"

Cody Hodgson

Schroeder

Connauton

Gaunce

and Hutton

 

More like Gillis UNSUCCESSFULLY  drafted Hodgson, Schroeder, Connauton, Gaunce

sort of successfully drafted Hutton and successfully drafted Horvat

 

FTFY

 

In bold.

You want to talk about moving goal posts????

JUST off the top of my head, Burke "only drafted" THE F***ING SEDINS?????? LOLOLOL Umm KESLER???? BIEKSA?????? 

 

You probably should have stopped talking a long time ago.

hahaaha so cute. I can tell who you're asking to be your valentine. You upset bro? I guess development never clicked for you did it?

 

Lets see every single cup winning team has one major thing in common. 

YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT

 STL, TBL, PIT, WSH, DET

Go do some research, go take a look at how many of their key players spent 2-4 years developing, BEFORE getting called up and making an impact. 

1986 Entry

245

12

Sean Williams

C

Oshawa Generals [OHL]

2

0

0

0

4

 

 

Seems to me like they really "capitalized" on draft capital and produced almost nothing. Thats just 7 years too.

 

Draft capital can suck it, if there is no development path in place. IT DOES NOTHING. 

 

Show me your draft capital that actually drafted QUALITY NHL talent that didnt need development. Please I'd LOVE to see that. 

 

Try and make an argument without using CAPS and mass copy pasta'ing HockeyDB challenge [Impossible]

 

Quote

More like Gillis UNSUCCESSFULLY  drafted Hodgson, Schroeder, Connauton, Gaunce

But in your reality, draft capital is nonsense and it's all about development. What are you going on about 'unsuccessfully' drafting. If they go into the system, it's a success no? All that's left is to develop them.

 

Quote

Show me your draft capital that actually drafted QUALITY NHL talent that didnt need development. Please I'd LOVE to see that. 

For a guy that spends most of his arguments copying and pasting Hockey DB tables and thinking that's a slam dunk argument, you've overlooked a lot of them. Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, MacKinnon, Mathews, Ekblad, Eichel, Dahlin, Svechnikov, Heiskanen, Both Tkachuks, Provorov, Werenski, Jack Hughes. Almost all of these draft picks made the NHL almost immediately straight from the draft.

 

Most notable in our own team. Quinn Hughes wasn't developed by us, neither was Petey, neither touched Utica.

 

Those are High draft capital prospects that didn't even touch our own farm system and are paraded around as proof that annoint Benning is a drafting god. The fact of the matter is, the higher up you draft, the higher chance you have of getting NHL ready players right away that can hide the fact that you can't develop.

 

The fact that you're trying to discredit draft capital and instead try and focus on development isn't helping your boy Benning as much as you think.

 

Here's how we compare with farm system graduations since 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AnthonyG]

24 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I think it's a bigger indictment of Benning that he had better infrastructure set up that Gillis never had in terms of scouting staff and control of the farm team, and he didn't graduate anyone from it other than Demko in eight years. ( i am still rooting for Lockwood though)

 

Umm maybe thats because JB's players where NHL impact players right away, taking over for the declining aged out roster with no value that Gillis left behind. JV, McCann, Boeser, Horvat (Gillis guy i know), Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander.. All these young inexeperienced players were able to make the team their 1st year... Why? Because the roster was so weak and "stale" as Torts said. We filled an NHL club first before the farm. They also earned their spots and there was no argument about it either. Hogs struggled, Podz was struggling and they've been sent to the minors for development. Something we can finally do and know that they will be in a good environment for their paths forward. 

 

How do you still argue this. 

We had no prospects

a roster well past its best before date

and somehow you and all these fans, seem to continuously complain about the prospect pool and the team. Like how many NHLers are you expecting to realistically be drafted and thrown into the NHL and become winners right away and then somehow also fill the farm system in under 8 years?

[DSVII]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Yea lets take on more cap and re-sign Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli and then try to figure out how to get around the Demko, Hughes, Petey, Boeser contracts. Brilliant. Lets risk taking on more cap instead of shedding anything we can to preserve our youth on the roster and risk not being able to afford a deal or match an offer sheet.

Again, including Markstrom is red herring when I've already told you before that it was reasonable to let him walk. It just wasn't reasonable to lose all three.

 

Just like how you parade Schmidt as a deft acquisition by Benning when in reality Vegas called Benning up because they smelled blood in the water. He didn't initiate that trade.

Similar with Florida shopping Gudbranson off to us for high picks and McCann, fellow GMs knew a sucker when they see one.

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

 

Try and make an argument without using CAPS and mass copy pasta'ing HockeyDB challenge [Impossible]

 

But in your reality, draft capital is nonsense and it's all about development. What are you going on about 'unsuccessfully' drafting. If they go into the system, it's a success no? All that's left is to develop them.

 

For a guy that spends most of his arguments copying and pasting Hockey DB tables and thinking that's a slam dunk argument, you've overlooked a lot of them. Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, MacKinnon, Mathews, Ekblad, Eichel, Dahlin, Svechnikov, Heiskanen, Both Tkachuks, Provorov, Werenski, Jack Hughes. Almost all of these draft picks made the NHL almost immediately straight from the draft.

 

Most notable in our own team. Quinn Hughes wasn't developed by us, neither was Petey, neither touched Utica.

 

Those are High draft capital prospects that didn't even touch our own farm system and are paraded around as proof that annoint Benning is a drafting god. The fact of the matter is, the higher up you draft, the higher chance you have of getting NHL ready players right away that can hide the fact that you can't develop.

 

The fact that you're trying to discredit draft capital and instead try and focus on development isn't helping your boy Benning as much as you think.

 

Here's how we compare with farm system graduations since 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for posting this. This is lovely. Now go back and do Vancouver from 2005-2013. Lol Tell me where the new core was drafted?

[Master Mind]

15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

The whole argument was that his failures of drafting and developing are what set us so far back when Benning took over. Like how do you guys not see that or understand that?

Also its pretty easy to walk into an organization with players at their peak level and win and be successful. Chiarelli is living proof of that. Took over a Boston team who was in their prime or just about to enter their prime and won a cup. Have been one of the most dominant teams the least 15 years. Tim Thomas was the best goalie during his time. His numbers are far superior to anyone else and consistently. 

 

I made a point that Gillis did nothing other than add some sprinkles to the cake that was already baked and layered with icing. 

I'm not saying that Gillis' drafting/developing didn't make it harder for Benning. But Benning compounded his problems by horrible decision making at every level.

 

You're really undermining Gillis' work if that's all you think he did. Very disingenuous argument.

[AnthonyG]

Just now, DSVII said:

Again, including Markstrom is red herring when I've already told you before that it was reasonable to let him walk. It just wasn't reasonable to lose all three.

 

Just like how you parade Schmidt as a deft acquisition by Benning when in reality Vegas called Benning up because they smelled blood in the water. He didn't initiate that trade.

Similar with Florida shopping Gudbranson off to us for high picks and McCann, fellow GMs knew a sucker when they see one.

 

 

Feb. 1, 2019

Florida Panthers Acquire: Derick Brassard · $3,000,000 Riley Sheahan · $2,100,000 2019 2nd round pick (PIT - #52 - Vladislav Kolyachonok) 2019 4th round pick (PIT - #114 - Dmitri Voronkov) 2019 4th round pick (MIN - #104 - Eric Hjorth)   Sum: $5,100,000 Change: -$250,000

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire: Nick Bjugstad · $4,100,000 Jared McCann · $1,250,000   Sum: $5,350,000 Change: +$250,000

 

 

Whos the bigger sucker? Or POHO gave up a ton for McCann... McCann's value went from Gudbranson a former 3rd overall pick, to some vets plus 3 picks, to a prospect and a 7th... to given away for free. Lol seems to me like there was an issue with McCann and didnt have a whole lot of value at all. 

[DSVII]

37 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Thank you for posting this. This is lovely. Now go back and do Vancouver from 2005-2013. Lol Tell me where the new core was drafted?

Off the top of my head, and going by the parameters of that graph (must be developed in AHL (25 games), +100 NHL games) probably Chris Tanev and Cody Hodgson. Cory Schneider and Jannick Hansen if you include 2004. 

 

That's how low a bar is needed to pass Benning's record.

 

That's all I'm gonna put in since you clearly have no argument. Continue posting Hockey DB drafts like it means something.

 

Quote

How do you still argue this. 

We had no prospects

a roster well past its best before date

and somehow you and all these fans, seem to continuously complain about the prospect pool and the team. Like how many NHLers are you expecting to realistically be drafted and thrown into the NHL and become winners right away and then somehow also fill the farm system in under 8 years?

How do you argue that draft capital means nothing while at the same time parading the fact that Petey and Hughes who were drafted with high draft capital became instant impact players?

 

How do you explain that Benning, who also drafted in the 3-7th rounds where you claim we can find Gems as long as we develop them correctly, have less graduations from those rounds than shittier drafting Gillis?

Edited January 16, 2023 by DSVII

[Warhippy]

43 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Hmm weird, yea lets move the goal posts some more and talk about TOR and EDM who drafted generational talent... and that is it.

Lmfao yea TOR sure did draft better LOLOL

2021 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	57	2	Matthew Knies	L	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2021 Entry	153	5	Ty Voit	R	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2021 Entry	185	6	Vyacheslav Peksa	G	IRBIS KAZAN
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	15	1	Rodion Amirov	L	Ufa Salavat Yulayev [KHL]
2020 Entry	59	2	Roni Hirvonen	C	Assat Pori [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	64	3	Topi Niemela	D	Karpat [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	106	4	Artur Akhtyamov	G	Kazan Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	122	4	William Villeneuve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2020 Entry	137	5	Dmitry Ovchinnikov	L	Novosibirsk Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	168	6	Veeti Miettinen	R	Espoo Jrs. (Finland)
2020 Entry	177	6	Axel Rindell	D	Jukurit Mikkeli [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	180	6	Joe Miller	C	Blake School (Minn. H.S.)
2020 Entry	189	7	John Fusco	D	Dexter Southfield (Mass. H.S.)
2020 Entry	195	7	Wyatt Schingoethe	F	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]
2020 Entry	213	7	Ryan Tverberg	C	Toronto Jr. Canadiens [OJHL]
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	53	2	Nicholas Robertson	L	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	31	3	4	7	4
2019 Entry	84	3	Mikko Kokkonen	D	Jukurit Mikkeli [SM-liiga]
2019 Entry	115	4	Mikhail Abramov	C	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2019 Entry	124	4	Nick Abruzzese	C	Chicago Steel [USHL]	9	1	0	1	2
2019 Entry	146	5	Michael Koster	D	Chaska [Minn. H.S.]
2019 Entry	204	7	Kalle Loponen	D	Karpat [Finland Jrs.]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	29	1	Rasmus Sandin	D	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	128	9	34	43	29
2018 Entry	52	2	Sean Durzi	D	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	107	8	43	51	78
2018 Entry	76	3	Semyon Der-Arguchintsev	C	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2018 Entry	83	3	Riley Stotts	C	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2018 Entry	118	4	Mac Hollowell	D	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	6	0	2	2	2
2018 Entry	149	5	Filip Kral	D	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	2	0	0	0	2
2018 Entry	156	6	Pontus Holmberg	R	Vasteras (Sweden-3)	28	4	7	11	6
2018 Entry	209	7	Zachary Bouthillier	G	Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2018 Entry	211	7	Semyon Kizimov	R	Togliatti-2 (Russia Jrs.)
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	17	1	Timothy Liljegren	D	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	107	8	26	34	32
2017 Entry	59	2	Eemeli Rasanen	D	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2017 Entry	110	4	Ian Scott	G	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2017 Entry	124	4	Vladislav Kara	L	Kazan [Russia-Jrs]
2017 Entry	141	5	Fedor Gordeev	D	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2017 Entry	172	6	Ryan McGregor	C	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2017 Entry	203	7	Ryan O'Connell	D	St. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	1	1	Auston Matthews	C	Zurich SC [Swiss-A]	449	280	225	505	88
2016 Entry	31	2	Egor Korshkov	L	Yaroslavl Lokomotiv [KHL]	1	1	0	1	0
2016 Entry	57	2	Carl Grundstrom	R	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]	166	26	20	46	70
2016 Entry	62	3	Joseph Woll	G	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	4	0	0	0	2
2016 Entry	72	3	J.D. Greenway	D	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2016 Entry	92	4	Adam Brooks	C	Regina Pats [WHL]	43	6	5	11	2
2016 Entry	101	4	Keaton Middleton	D	Saginaw Spirit [OHL]	3	0	0	0	4
2016 Entry	122	5	Vladimir Bobylev	L	Victoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry	152	6	Jack Walker	L	Victoria Royals [WHL]
2016 Entry	179	6	Nicolas Mattinen	D	London Knights [OHL]
2016 Entry	182	7	Nikolai Chebykin	L	MVD Jrs (Russia)
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	4	1	Mitch Marner	R	London Knights [OHL]	471	154	353	507	154
2015 Entry	34	2	Travis Dermott	D	Erie Otters [OHL]	275	14	41	55	102
2015 Entry	61	2	Jeremy Bracco	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2015 Entry	65	3	Andrew Nielsen	D	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]
2015 Entry	68	3	Martins Dzierkals	R	Riga Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	95	4	Jesper Lindgren	D	MODO Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	125	5	Dmytro Timashov	L	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	45	4	5	9	16
2015 Entry	155	6	Stephen Desrocher	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2015 Entry	185	7	Nikita Korostelev	R	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	8	1	William Nylander	R	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]	483	159	231	390	118
2014 Entry	68	3	Rinat Valiev	D	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	12	0	0	0	2
2014 Entry	103	4	J.J. Piccinich	R	Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]
2014 Entry	128	5	Dakota Joshua	C	Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]	81	10	8	18	66
2014 Entry	158	6	Nolan Vesey	F	South Shore Kings [USPHL-Pr]
2014 Entry	188	7	Pierre Engvall	L	Frolunda (Sweden Jrs.)	210	39	39	78	75

 

hahahahahahahhaha how far are you going to stretch the goal posts dude?

 

Buffalo has had how many 1st overalls? 3 in the time JB was our GM?? Oh and 2 2nd overalls and a top 10 pick in every draft. One of those consolation prizes being Eichel.

But yea, keep moving the posts some more. Oh and.... Its funny you say Buffalo has done so much better than us.... Yet are 5pts ahead of us in the standings? lol

 

Edmonton.... Barely holding a playoff spot with McDavid and Draisaitl  carrying over 50% of their offense. Without either one of those players they are absolutely garbage. So yea, move to goal posts another couple feet. Whatever you need to help yourself feel like you are winning an argument. 

 

Montreal.... Lol seriously? How about that Sergachev trade eh? Or that Kotkaniemi selection? That all worked out great didnt it? Oh and we're tied with them... Remind me how they did so much better?

 

ARIZONA???? LOOOOOOOOOOL thats hilarious. How come ARZ is sh*ttier than us? If we are measuring the same time line of Bennings work vs those franchises you mention... Why arent they winning? 

 

CBJ...30th in the league and their drafting doesnt blow me away. PLD who they moved for Laine. Werenski... and thats about it that really stands out as top players. Which is probably why they are 30th in the league. 

 

 

Dallas??? Nothing in 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020. Sure they developed Hintz and Robertson, had a top 3 pick with Heiskanen and landed Oettinger. But other than that. Their drafting is the same if not worse. Benning has drafted and developed more NHLers overall. Sorry...

Robertson and Petterson have the same impact

Demko and Oettinger are quite comparable. As of right now I'd give the edge to Oettinger. 

Hughes and Heiskanen are much the same

 

New Jersey?? once again how many 1OAs?? Not only that but... 1 playoff appearance in 11 years??? They've been sh*t for soooooooooo long.

Also Pettersson>Hischier

 

FLORIDA??? did you do ANY research?? The majority of that team you are looking at was drafted previous to Bennings tenure. Plus Ekblad was 1OA. Oh look the goal posts keep moving.

 

LOL NYR this one might be my favourite

2021 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	16	1	Brennan Othmann	L	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2021 Entry	65	3	Jayden Grubbe	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
2021 Entry	75	3	Ryder Korczak	C	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2021 Entry	104	4	Brody Lamb	R	Dodge County [Wisc. H.S.]
2021 Entry	106	4	Kalle Vaisanen	R	TPS [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	112	4	Talyn Boyko	G	Tri-City Americans [WHL]
2021 Entry	144	5	Jaroslav Chmelar	R	Jokerit [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	208	7	Hank Kempf	D	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	1	1	Alexis Lafreniere	L	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]	177	36	34	70	57
2020 Entry	19	1	Braden Schneider	D	Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]	86	7	14	21	16
2020 Entry	60	2	Will Cuylle	L	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
2020 Entry	92	3	Oliver Tarnstrom	L	AIK Jrs. (Sweden)
2020 Entry	103	4	Dylan Garand	G	Kamloops Blazers [WHL]
2020 Entry	127	5	Evan Vierling	C	Barrie Colts [OHL]
2020 Entry	134	5	Brett Berard	F	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2020 Entry	165	6	Matthew Rempe	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2020 Entry	197	7	Hugo Ollas	G	Linkopings Jrs. (Sweden)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	2	1	Kaapo Kakko	R	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]	200	35	41	76	42
2019 Entry	49	2	Matthew Robertson	D	Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL]
2019 Entry	58	2	Karl Henriksson	C	Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	68	3	Zac Jones	D	Tri-City Storm [USHL]	38	1	7	8	6
2019 Entry	112	4	Hunter Skinner	D	Lincoln Stars [USHL]
2019 Entry	130	5	Leevi Aaltonen	F	Kalpa [Finland Jrs.]
2019 Entry	161	6	Adam Edstrom	C	Mora [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	205	7	Eric Ciccolini	R	Toronto Jr. Canadiens [OJHL]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	9	1	Vitali Kravtsov	R	Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL]	43	4	5	9	10
2018 Entry	22	1	K'Andre Miller	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	178	17	38	55	62
2018 Entry	28	1	Nils Lundkvist	D	Lulea HF [SweHL]	66	5	11	16	26
2018 Entry	39	2	Olof Lindbom	G	Djurgarden-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2018 Entry	70	3	Jakob Ragnarsson	D	Almtuna IS [Swe-1]
2018 Entry	88	3	Joey Keane	D	Barrie Colts [OHL]	2	0	0	0	2
2018 Entry	101	4	Nico Gross	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2018 Entry	132	5	Lauri Pajuniemi	R	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]
2018 Entry	163	6	Simon Kjellberg	D	Rogle-2 (Sweden Jrs.)
2018 Entry	216	7	Riley Hughes	R	St. Sebastian (Mass. H.S.)
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	7	1	Lias Andersson	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	110	7	10	17	57
2017 Entry	21	1	Filip Chytil	C	Zlin ZPS HC [Czech]	288	54	61	115	70
2017 Entry	123	4	Brandon Crawley	D	London Knights [OHL]
2017 Entry	145	5	Calle Sjalin	D	Timra [Sweden-Jrs]
2017 Entry	157	6	Dominik Lakatos	R	Liberec Bili Tygri HC [Czech]
2017 Entry	174	6	Morgan Barron	C	St. Andrews [Ont. H.S.]	63	8	9	17	18
2017 Entry	207	7	Patrik Virta	L	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	81	3	Sean Day	D	Mississauga Steelheads [OHL]	2	0	0	0	0
2016 Entry	98	4	Tarmo Reunanen	D	TPS Jrs (Finland)	4	0	1	1	0
2016 Entry	141	5	Tim Gettinger	L	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	16	0	1	1	0
2016 Entry	171	6	Gabriel Fontaine	C	Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL]
2016 Entry	174	6	Tyler Wall	G	Leamington (GOJHL)
2016 Entry	201	7	Ty Ronning	R	Vancouver Giants [WHL]
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	41	2	Ryan Gropp	L	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2015 Entry	62	3	Robin Kovacs	R	AIK [Swe-1]
2015 Entry	79	3	Sergey Zborovskiy	D	Regina Pats [WHL]
2015 Entry	89	3	Aleksi Saarela	C	Assat Pori [SM-liiga]	9	2	2	4	0
2015 Entry	113	4	Brad Morrison	C	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2015 Entry	119	4	Daniel Bernhardt	R	Djurgardens Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	184	7	Adam Huska	G	Slovakia U-18	1	0	0	0	0
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	59	2	Brandon Halverson	G	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2014 Entry	85	3	Keegan Iverson	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2014 Entry	104	4	Ryan Mantha	D	Indiana Ice [USHL]
2014 Entry	118	4	Igor Shesterkin	G	Spartak (Russia Jrs.)	132	0	1	1	2
2014 Entry	122	5	Richard Nejezchleb	R	Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]
2014 Entry	140	5	Daniel Walcott	L	Blainville-Boisbriand Armada [QMJHL]	1	0	0	0	5
2014 Entry	142	5	Tyler Nanne	D	Edina (Minn. H.S.)

 

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. LOL DUDE STOP EMBARASSING YOURSELF. The NYR team is mainly constructed from prior to 2014. Why couldnt Gillis do that?

Especially when you take a look at their "draft capital" @DSVII

2013 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2013 Entry	65	3	Adam Tambellini	L	Surrey Eagles [BCHL]
2013 Entry	75	3	Pavel Buchnevich	L	Cherepovets Jrs. (Russia)	409	124	184	308	160
2013 Entry	80	3	Anthony Duclair	L	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	470	120	132	252	163
2013 Entry	110	4	Ryan Graves	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]	264	24	65	89	140
2013 Entry	170	6	Mackenzie Skapski	G	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	2	0	0	0	0
2012 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	28	1	Brady Skjei	D	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	490	46	136	182	268
2012 Entry	59	2	Cristoval "Boo" Nieves	C	Kent School [Conn. H.S.]	76	5	14	19	24
2012 Entry	119	4	Calle Andersson	D	Farjestads Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2012 Entry	142	5	Thomas Spelling	R	Herning Blue Fox [Denmark]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	15	1	J.T. Miller	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	679	185	306	491	357
2011 Entry	72	3	Steven Fogarty	C	Edina H.S. (Minn.)	31	1	2	3	12
2011 Entry	106	4	Michael St. Croix	C	Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL]
2011 Entry	134	5	Shane McColgan	C	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]
2011 Entry	136	5	Samuel Noreau	D	Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	172	6	Peter Ceresnak	D	Trencin Jr. (Slovakia)
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	10	1	Dylan McIlrath	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]	66	3	2	5	121
2010 Entry	40	2	Christian Thomas	L	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	27	1	2	3	9
2010 Entry	100	4	Andrew Yogan	L	Erie Otters [OHL]
2010 Entry	130	5	Jason Wilson	L	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2010 Entry	157	6	Jesper Fast	R	HV71 Jr. [Swe-Jr]	591	80	136	216	140
2010 Entry	190	7	Randy McNaught	R	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	19	1	Chris Kreider	L	Andover H.S. (Mass.)	696	248	205	453	513
2009 Entry	47	2	Ethan Werek	C	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2009 Entry	80	3	Ryan Bourque	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	1	0	0	0	0
2009 Entry	127	5	Roman Horak	C	Ceske Budejovice Jrs. [Czech.]	84	6	13	19	16
2009 Entry	140	5	Scott Stajcer	G	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2009 Entry	170	6	Daniel Maggio	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
2009 Entry	200	7	Mikhail Pashnin	D	Mechel [Russia]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	20	1	Michael Del Zotto	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	736	63	199	262	284
2008 Entry	51	2	Derek Stepan	C	Shattuck St. Mary's (Minn)	855	181	329	510	214
2008 Entry	75	3	Evgeny Grachev	L	Yaroslavl Jrs. (Russia)	34	1	3	4	2
2008 Entry	90	3	Tomas Kundratek	D	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]	30	1	6	7	10
2008 Entry	111	4	Dale Weise	R	Swift Current Broncos [WHL]	513	55	70	125	355
2008 Entry	141	5	Chris Doyle	L	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2008 Entry	171	6	Mitch Gaulton	D	Erie Otters [OHL]

 

 

Very few picks, but high NHL production. due to...... DEVELOPMENT... Everyone say it with me. Duh-VEL-up-MENT

Pretty much all of them spent 2-4 years developing and this is the PERFECT example of why the NYR are successful today and we are not. They were able to draft and develop players while STILL being a very competitive team without tons of draft capital or high picks. Those players they developed are the reason they are a winning team today. 

Gillis sh*t the bed during that time and it was a massive set back for us. When will you figure that out?

 

Philly is absolute dogsh*t and their drafting supports my statement. Along with their record and the direction they are headed. Also once again... Pettersson>Patrick lol. 

 

Can you pick more teams with cores formed pre-Benning era and more 1st overalls and 2nd overalls to stretch the goal posts to the sun?

 

Also Sh*tcago...Saved them for last. 

Schmaltz is in ARZ, Dach is in MTL, DeBrincat is in OTT, Jokiharju is in CBJ... Lol almost every single NHLer they drafted is not even in their organization anymore. Lmfao so to say Sh*tcago did way better is one of the funniest things ive ever heard. They only won games because they had some of their core from their cup winning teams still playing. They dont have a single NHLer other than Kurashev whoever the f*** he is, playing for them. WELCOME TO THE DARK DAYS CHICAGO. Its going to be a very long stay. 

 

 

Thanks for the laughs dude, it was great. 

 

You're so tragically desperate for a win that you will completely ignore basic facts and common sense without even mentioning the original statements you made just to try to continue arguing.

 

Benning had everything going for him and failed to do anything. Gillis had a championship team and none of the benefits Bening had. The only thing Gillis had that bening didn't was a winning team

[DSVII]

30 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

Whos the bigger sucker? Or POHO gave up a ton for McCann... McCann's value went from Gudbranson a former 3rd overall pick, to some vets plus 3 picks, to a prospect and a 7th... to given away for free. Lol seems to me like there was an issue with McCann and didnt have a whole lot of value at all. 

My god so you do believe in value of draft position after all! Just admit it

 

Also, considering the advanced stats of Gudbranson at the time, and the fact that Benning foolishly didn't spend time developing McCann (0 games in the AHL) and rushed him for a quick PR win, stunting his growth. We gave up way more. Also considering that 2nd round pick was at the top of the round, we were in a position to draft Alex Debrincat who our scouting staff was high on, we gave up two potential top six pieces for an overrated, overpaid depth defenseman who couldn't move the puck.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by DSVII

[Warhippy]

41 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

Try and make an argument without using CAPS and mass copy pasta'ing HockeyDB challenge [Impossible]

 

But in your reality, draft capital is nonsense and it's all about development. What are you going on about 'unsuccessfully' drafting. If they go into the system, it's a success no? All that's left is to develop them.

 

For a guy that spends most of his arguments copying and pasting Hockey DB tables and thinking that's a slam dunk argument, you've overlooked a lot of them. Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, MacKinnon, Mathews, Ekblad, Eichel, Dahlin, Svechnikov, Heiskanen, Both Tkachuks, Provorov, Werenski, Jack Hughes. Almost all of these draft picks made the NHL almost immediately straight from the draft.

 

Most notable in our own team. Quinn Hughes wasn't developed by us, neither was Petey, neither touched Utica.

 

Those are High draft capital prospects that didn't even touch our own farm system and are paraded around as proof that annoint Benning is a drafting god. The fact of the matter is, the higher up you draft, the higher chance you have of getting NHL ready players right away that can hide the fact that you can't develop.

 

The fact that you're trying to discredit draft capital and instead try and focus on development isn't helping your boy Benning as much as you think.

 

Here's how we compare with farm system graduations since 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Big applause here 

 

Where'd you find this table??

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, DSVII said:

My god so you do believe in value of draft position after all!

 

Also, considering the advanced stats of Gudbranson at the time, and the fact that Benning foolishly didn't spend time developing McCann (0 games in the AHL) and rushed him for a quick PR win, stunting his growth. We gave up way more. Also considering that 2nd round pick was at the top of the round, we were in a position to draft Alex Debrincat who our scouting staff was high on, we gave up two potential top six pieces for an overrated, overpaid depth defenseman who couldn't move the puck.

 

 

Ok so to summarize.  Draft position IS important?

 

But Gillis while drafting at an average of 26th failed in his 5 total drafts while Benning in his 7  total drafts while drafting at an average of 9th was successful?

 

Tell me.  Who failed more.

 

Gillis for Hodgson** at 10 Gaunce at 26, Jensen at 29, Schroeder at 22, Horvat at 9, Shinkaruk at 24

 

Or

 

Benning for Virtanen at 6, McCann at 24, Boeser at 23, Juolevi at 5, Pettersson at 5, Hughes at 7, Podkolzin at 10.

 

Tell me, based on "draft position" who is the bigger failure at drafting?  We will skip development because of all the aforementioned players the only one truly developed was Shinkaruk as he never really left the AHL

[Sell.the.team]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Saying "Gillass" is bringing something of value to a conversation?

 

Gillis was the GM of the most successful team in our franchise's history. Funny enough, his teams were the ones Kesler was most productive in, who you made a big deal about earlier.

 

His drafting was poor but that's no reason to hate on him. That 2011 run was fantastic and no amount of good drafting can top that unless it leads to a cup.

Gillis inherited that entire core with a few relatively small exceptions.  He did some good but a lot of bad too and the absolutely piss poor drafting screwed this team for years.

[RinkonRenfrew]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Ok so to summarize.  Draft position IS important?

 

But Gillis while drafting at an average of 26th failed in his 5 total drafts while Benning in his 7  total drafts while drafting at an average of 9th was successful?

 

Tell me.  Who failed more.

 

Gillis for Hodgson** at 10 Gaunce at 26, Jensen at 29, Schroeder at 22, Horvat at 9, Shinkaruk at 24

 

Or

 

Benning for Virtanen at 6, McCann at 24, Boeser at 23, Juolevi at 5, Pettersson at 5, Hughes at 7, Podkolzin at 10.

 

Tell me, based on "draft position" who is the bigger failure at drafting?  We will skip development because of all the aforementioned players the only one truly developed was Shinkaruk as he never really left the AHL

Gillis wasn’t a draft guy. Horvat and Hodgson ( if not for his health problems) were good picks in the top 10. Benning did great with late first- early second round (demko, hoglander, and hopefully klimovich) picks. I don’t think Benning was a great draft guy, but I think subjectively better than Gillis.
 

If Gillis was given the chance to rebuild as he wanted, I would bet the focus of the org would be on drafting and development and his record would have improved. He is a smart guy, and clearly prioritized short term success during the winning years. I wouldn’t bet against him succeeding if his goal was a rebuild though. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Not first round, but first two rounds, picks in the top 100. More likely than not, your chances of finding a prospect who can play in the NHL lies at the top of the draft. You want picks in the top 100 otherwise your chance of whiffing it are much greater.

 

As for development, he identifed this as a weakness and created the Utica comets to give his team more control over player development, since under the Chicago Wolves he had no control over deployment of Canucks prospects. It was something he laid the groundwork for when he realized he wasn't getting enough at the draft. I wouldn't say it's accurate that it was an afterthought, but during our president's trophy teams the priority was getting the team over the hump to win it all. 

 

I think it's a bigger indictment of Benning that he had better infrastructure set up that Gillis never had in terms of scouting staff and control of the farm team, and he didn't graduate anyone from it other than Demko in eight years. ( i am still rooting for Lockwood though)

 

Many teams have had much better picks in a shorter period of time, but yeah, it's not Gillis' fault for making horrible picks. Gotcha.

[RinkonRenfrew]

32 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Many teams have had much better picks in a shorter period of time, but yeah, it's not Gillis' fault for making horrible picks. Gotcha.

Yeah, such bad drafting. i bet Horvat doesn’t even score 60 goals this year.