Guest Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) Edit: double post Edited March 13, 2023 by VancouverHabitant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 hours ago, RomanP said: However, there's one thing that is different between us and the other teams at the bottom of the prospects ranking - the average age of the NHL team. We are one of the youngest teams in the NHL because so many of our top prospects graduates to the big club. The other teams at the bottom of the prospect ranking (Boston, Tampa, etc.) are all on the older side of the average age in NHL. All that has to be taken into account, not just pure prospects ranking. Where do you get that we are one of the youngest teams? We are middle of the pack. The other teams at the bottom of the bottom prospect ranking are there because they have been really good teams for a long time so trade away all their picks. That is more damning than anything else, so not what you think as some sort of mitigating factor. The teams with top prospects pools are also much younger than the Canucks with plenty of prospects who have graduated to the big club (hence why they are young) AND still have high end guys in the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: What are you basing this on? Is everyone using the Corey Pronman rankings as the de facto authority on the league rankings? If so, then I welcome someone to list the middle (16th and 17th) teams and let's compare the prospects between the two franchises and the Canucks. Might be an interesting exercise. Based on every single list out there… https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/ https://theathletic.com/3923067/2023/01/09/nhl-prospect-rankings-2023/?amp=1 You seem to be too lazy to do a simple Google, yet you have “tasked” other people to do a bunch of work to prove some random invented point you have picked out of your ass. Do a little work yourself and add something productive rather than just griping that objective relative doesn’t fit your worldview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Provost said: Based on every single list out there… https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/ https://theathletic.com/3923067/2023/01/09/nhl-prospect-rankings-2023/?amp=1 You seem to be too lazy to do a simple Google, yet you have “tasked” other people to do a bunch of work to prove some random invented point you have picked out of your ass. Do a little work yourself and add something productive rather than just griping that objective relative doesn’t fit your worldview. 1. I do not have The Athletic subscription, and that's why I asked for Pronman's rankings. 2. I did not "task" anyone with anything, simply asked for the 16th and 17th ranked teams on their lists. I was gonna do some comparisons myself. 3. You're being rude, maybe you misread my post or else you need to chill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RomanP Posted March 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Provost said: Where do you get that we are one of the youngest teams? We are middle of the pack. The other teams at the bottom of the bottom prospect ranking are there because they have been really good teams for a long time so trade away all their picks. That is more damning than anything else, so not what you think as some sort of mitigating factor. The teams with top prospects pools are also much younger than the Canucks with plenty of prospects who have graduated to the big club (hence why they are young) AND still have high end guys in the pipeline. Oh, that sweet moment when I can bring the actual fact into an argument in which the other side is just saying something out of their … 2 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 5 hours ago, RomanP said: Oh, that sweet moment when I can bring the actual fact into an argument in which the other side is just saying something out of their … That certainly is satisfying. It would be more so of course if the poster you are responding to would admit that they were wrong. But posters like that who make up drivel for the purpose of crapping on our team are seldom willing to be honest. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, RomanP said: Oh, that sweet moment when I can bring the actual fact into an argument in which the other side is just saying something out of their … That was a snapshot of the opening day roster excluding Myers and Mikheyev who were on injured reserve, but including Klimovich who was on the active roster (in the press box) and Hoglander. It took you some work to ignore all the other google results to find a cherry picked one... The snapshot average age of the Canucks today even with all the changes getting a little younger with the deadline moves and including a guy like Kravtsov and removing Schenn is 26.59.https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/77/vancouver-canucks The results change daily, and in the end are calculated at the end of the season.https://www.flyersinsider.com/Top-10-Youngest-NHL-Teams-2022-23-145534https://leftwinglock.com/teams/biometrics/https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/10/12/23383386/average-height-weight-age-32-nhl-teams-2022-2023-seasonhttps://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2023.html Edited March 13, 2023 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Provost said: That was a snapshot of the opening day roster excluding Myers and Mikheyev who were on injured reserve, but including Klimovich who was on the active roster (in the press box) and Hoglander. It took you some work to ignore all the other google results to find a cherry picked one... The snapshot average age of the Canucks today even with all the changes getting a little younger with the deadline moves and including a guy like Kravtsov and removing Schenn is 26.59.https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/77/vancouver-canucks The results change daily, and in the end are calculated at the end of the season.https://www.flyersinsider.com/Top-10-Youngest-NHL-Teams-2022-23-145534https://leftwinglock.com/teams/biometrics/https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/10/12/23383386/average-height-weight-age-32-nhl-teams-2022-2023-seasonhttps://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2023.html Ok, as of today we are on the 8-9th spots. Far from your claimed “middle of the road” 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, RomanP said: Ok, as of today we are on the 8-9th spots. Far from your claimed “middle of the road” It depends on the list and the exact day of who is on the roster. We have been as high as 6th youngest and as low as the middle teens depending on the day and who is on the roster this year. Definitely middle of the pack. Amazing what happens when you swap out Schenn at 33 year old and Kravtsov at a decade younger. The difference between all the middle of the pack teams is a few months difference in average age. If you have Podkolzin and Kravtsov back in the minors, the team likely moves to the older half of the league in average age. It is a meaningless distinction due to almost no variation between all the middle of the pack teams... and most definitely not supporting your argument that somehow it is good a good thing to be younger and have no good prospects at the same time. We have one of the worst performing rosters in the league, and have for a significant number of years. We have a couple elite young players who are just approaching their primes. We have no blue chip prospects in the minors, and a bulk of our roster on expensive veterans who are on bad contracts. Those don't add up to something great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 3/13/2023 at 8:23 AM, Provost said: That was a snapshot of the opening day roster excluding Myers and Mikheyev who were on injured reserve, but including Klimovich who was on the active roster (in the press box) and Hoglander. It took you some work to ignore all the other google results to find a cherry picked one... The snapshot average age of the Canucks today even with all the changes getting a little younger with the deadline moves and including a guy like Kravtsov and removing Schenn is 26.59.https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/77/vancouver-canucks The results change daily, and in the end are calculated at the end of the season.https://www.flyersinsider.com/Top-10-Youngest-NHL-Teams-2022-23-145534https://leftwinglock.com/teams/biometrics/https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2022/10/12/23383386/average-height-weight-age-32-nhl-teams-2022-2023-seasonhttps://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2023.html You’re not looking at active players though. Old timers Tanner Pearson & Tucker Poolman who haven’t played much is LTIR and likely will be the same next season. Next season will also change with Tyler Myers likely being traded to Arizona OEL is the only other older player left and it’s looking like he might be bought out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 30 minutes ago, grandmaster said: You’re not looking at active players though. Old timers Tanner Pearson & Tucker Poolman who haven’t played much is LTIR and likely will be the same next season. Next season will also change with Tyler Myers likely being traded to Arizona OEL is the only other older player left and it’s looking like he might be bought out. It depends on how you define it, and they are part of the team and on contracts… especially in terms of the discussion that was being had about how the age of our team excused how poor the prospect pool is. Most of the other teams with bad prospect pools are amongst the oldest average age. They also, not coincidentally, have been the top teams in the league over the last decade and have won Stanley Cups recently. The point that our bad prospect pool is forgiven because we are a young team doesn’t make sense whether we end up 6th youngest or 16th youngest by the end of the year. That was a complete red herring thrown out by the poster. The fact that our team has been bad, and is still bad… AND has a bad prospect pool is the concerning part. Being bad for a long stretch shooed correlate with a strong prospect pool. Being good for a long stretch like Tampa, forgives having a bad prospect pool… the relative ages of the teams is largely meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 3/10/2023 at 3:11 PM, Sharpshooter said: Because you won’t let us have nice things. And also because the team doesn’t burn an ELC year this year. Managing contracts, cap, and development like this (letting him play tons of minutes and dominate, and then slowly but surely work his way up) is a good way to change my opinion on drafting and development. Right now there's not much on the top shelf for the Canucks pipeline but digging deep and putting in good polish might create some diamonds out of nothing. Heck, even if he turns into a reliable 5/6 that's actually reliable, with some actual skill, with three years of entry level contract, even if it's in a few years, is a win. And if I have to endure three more years of reclamation project of the year for the backend, if I see an improvement on the way getting bigger and stronger working his way up the system, I might even get some hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 58 minutes ago, grandmaster said: You’re not looking at active players though. Old timers Tanner Pearson & Tucker Poolman who haven’t played much is LTIR and likely will be the same next season. Next season will also change with Tyler Myers likely being traded to Arizona OEL is the only other older player left and it’s looking like he might be bought out. If you trade Myers, which why does Arizona want to do this in the first place?, just drops us a Right D, no matter what you think of him. OEL needs a few more years to mature in the press box before we buy him out. Were loosing a forward unfortunately. This signing ads long term potential depth. Great. No do more of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, ronthecivil said: If you trade Myers, which why does Arizona want to do this in the first place?, just drops us a Right D, no matter what you think of him. OEL needs a few more years to mature in the press box before we buy him out. Were loosing a forward unfortunately. This signing ads long term potential depth. Great. No do more of that. ARZ would be paying 1mill salary on a 6mill cap hit. They don't have money to spend and Myers helps them reach cap floor saving 5 mill in actual dollars. Myers at 1 mill salary is a real good player. Only teams that wouldn't want him are the cap ceiling teams who are trying to win now because they want a better player at 6mill cap hit. We're cap strapped. We can get rid Myers' 6 mill cap and get a better player via trade or UFA signing. Edited March 15, 2023 by WHL rocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, ronthecivil said: If you trade Myers, which why does Arizona want to do this in the first place?, just drops us a Right D, no matter what you think of him. OEL needs a few more years to mature in the press box before we buy him out. Were loosing a forward unfortunately. This signing ads long term potential depth. Great. No do more of that. Arizona is cash strapped. They eat players with higher hits and lower actual payments out of necessity. They need to reach the Cap floor to exist. The Coyotes are a joke of a franchise that has gone through financial problems for decades now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 hours ago, grandmaster said: Arizona is cash strapped. They eat players with higher hits and lower actual payments out of necessity. They need to reach the Cap floor to exist. The Coyotes are a joke of a franchise that has gone through financial problems for decades now. Fine and dandy perspective, but it MIGHT happen, but don't COUNT on it happening. And as said, maybe Myers is overpaid, but he's still a right D, a weakness on the team. What do you replace him with. The depth problem will rear it's ugly head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 10 hours ago, Provost said: It depends on how you define it, and they are part of the team and on contracts… especially in terms of the discussion that was being had about how the age of our team excused how poor the prospect pool is. Most of the other teams with bad prospect pools are amongst the oldest average age. They also, not coincidentally, have been the top teams in the league over the last decade and have won Stanley Cups recently. The point that our bad prospect pool is forgiven because we are a young team doesn’t make sense whether we end up 6th youngest or 16th youngest by the end of the year. That was a complete red herring thrown out by the poster. The fact that our team has been bad, and is still bad… AND has a bad prospect pool is the concerning part. Being bad for a long stretch shooed correlate with a strong prospect pool. Being good for a long stretch like Tampa, forgives having a bad prospect pool… the relative ages of the teams is largely meaningless. I simply stopped arguing with someone who only sees their own point of view and completely not only ignores anything that’s doesn’t fit the narrative but actively changes the subject to ignore the facts. Keep in talking to the mirror with conviction of having a discussion with the smartest man alive… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick29willkillyou Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWN. Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 3/12/2023 at 6:00 PM, VancouverHabitant said: What are you basing this on? Is everyone using the Corey Pronman rankings as the de facto authority on the league rankings? If so, then I welcome someone to list the middle (16th and 17th) teams and let's compare the prospects between the two franchises and the Canucks. Might be an interesting exercise. Every single hockey expect with a prospect pool list has us firmly in the bottom 5. 30/32 - The Hockey Writers - https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/ 28/32 - The Athletic - https://theathletic.com/3923067/2023/01/09/nhl-prospect-rankings-2023/ 28/32 - Rinkside - https://eprinkside.com/category/prospect-pool-rankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, MattWN. said: Every single hockey expect with a prospect pool list has us firmly in the bottom 5. 30/32 - The Hockey Writers - https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/ 28/32 - The Athletic - https://theathletic.com/3923067/2023/01/09/nhl-prospect-rankings-2023/ 28/32 - Rinkside - https://eprinkside.com/category/prospect-pool-rankings Thank you, I will pick the middle teams from those lists later this week and compare prospects. Not sure why the other guy came at me with personal attacks for asking for the rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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