[Proposal] This is how we clear cap space!

[HKSR]

35 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

Because they can get more value back for that cap space. If they're taking on 3 mil in cap space, they're getting a 2nd round pick back at the very least. Too many teams are up against the cap to expect ARZ to just wilfully take on money to make the cap floor. They won't be doing it for free, or for late round picks.

Cap space means squat for ARZ.  What matters to them is actual cash paid.

[Ted Lasso]

24 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

Because they can get more value back for that cap space. If they're taking on 3 mil in cap space, they're getting a 2nd round pick back at the very least. Too many teams are up against the cap to expect ARZ to just wilfully take on money to make the cap floor. They won't be doing it for free, or for late round picks.

agree on the valuation, and wonder if we could work a trade where the 3rd team provides the 2nd.  

 

 

[MattWN.]

9 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Cap space means squat for ARZ.  What matters to them is actual cash paid.

Doesn't matter if it means nothing to them, if there is value in taking on cap space, they won't be doing it for free. Last year the going rate was roughly a 2nd round pick for 2mil in cap dump. Why would they take money for free, when they can be paid to do it? That makes no sense. I understand they want to pay as little as possible for the max cap figure, but they can still do that while attaining assets. They aren't option A and option B. 

[MattWN.]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

agree on the valuation, and wonder if we could work a trade where the 3rd team provides the 2nd.  

 

 

We don't really have anything of value to add to the mix to get a team to take Myers, and another to pay the 2nd.

 

The best scenario here, is to wait until the TDL and retain 50% on Myers and hope the market dictates a decent haul. When you look at some of the prices teams are paying for dmen, Chariot comes to mind. I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Myers land a 1st round pick, or at least a 2nd and a B prospect. Myers for 3mil at the deadline will be peanuts against the cap, for a 6'7 RHD with the ability to skate and potentially play physical. He's the perfect addition to a contending team looking to shore up their bottom pair for a run.

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

Doesn't matter if it means nothing to them, if there is value in taking on cap space, they won't be doing it for free. Last year the going rate was roughly a 2nd round pick for 2mil in cap dump. Why would they take money for free, when they can be paid to do it? That makes no sense. I understand they want to pay as little as possible for the max cap figure, but they can still do that while attaining assets. They aren't option A and option B. 

As of today, theyll need likely $6m or so to reach the cap floor next year.  They can pay a player or players for $3m to move them closer to the cap floor, or they can pay $500k for that same $3m in cap hit.  The value is $2.5m in savings for the bank account.  Which is what matters most for them right now.  They'll likely have over $20m in cap space, so like I said, there's not a whole lot stopping them from taking on plenty of cap if they choose to.  This Myers deal wouldn't stop them from taking on a couple $8M cap hits if they want.

[MattWN.]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

As of today, theyll need likely $6m or so to reach the cap floor next year.  They can pay a player or players for $3m to move them closer to the cap floor, or they can pay $500k for that same $3m in cap hit.  The value is $2.5m in savings for the bank account.  Which is what matters most for them right now.  They'll likely have over $20m in cap space, so like I said, there's not a whole lot stopping them from taking on plenty of cap if they choose to.  This Myers deal wouldn't stop them from taking on a couple $8M cap hits if they want.

Ok but again, why would they not acquire assets to hit the cap floor?

It's not like Myers is the only player with an attractive signing bonus in his contract either.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this, I just don't understand why any team would pass up the opportunity to add assets, especially when so many teams are capped out, or above the cap. The cap space has never been more valuable.

[mll]

33 minutes ago, HKSR said:

As of today, theyll need likely $6m or so to reach the cap floor next year.  They can pay a player or players for $3m to move them closer to the cap floor, or they can pay $500k for that same $3m in cap hit.  The value is $2.5m in savings for the bank account.  Which is what matters most for them right now.  They'll likely have over $20m in cap space, so like I said, there's not a whole lot stopping them from taking on plenty of cap if they choose to.  This Myers deal wouldn't stop them from taking on a couple $8M cap hits if they want.

They are at over 55M with a roster of only 12 players.  They have RFAs to extend and league minimum is 775K.  

 

As long time beat writer Craig Morgan puts it after adding Weber's contract:  "Finally, teams can no longer use the Coyotes’ need to get to the cap floor as leverage in trade scenarios. It helps the Coyotes from a negotiating standpoint."

 

Armstrong has been repeating ever since taking over about how they intend to leverage their cap space to gain additional assets.  Myers bonus being paid so late gives them even more leverage.  They'll know how much cap space Vancouver needs to clear to be cap compliant to start the season.  Can't just bury 6M worth of contracts in the AHL given roster minimum limits.  It's also not like there are many teams willing/able to give up cap space.

 

[Ted Lasso]

28 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

We don't really have anything of value to add to the mix to get a team to take Myers, and another to pay the 2nd.

 

The best scenario here, is to wait until the TDL and retain 50% on Myers and hope the market dictates a decent haul. When you look at some of the prices teams are paying for dmen, Chariot comes to mind. I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Myers land a 1st round pick, or at least a 2nd and a B prospect. Myers for 3mil at the deadline will be peanuts against the cap, for a 6'7 RHD with the ability to skate and potentially play physical. He's the perfect addition to a contending team looking to shore up their bottom pair for a run.

I guess we have to consider the value of Myers at $3M AAV, and $500k real dollars to the team that receives him.  in September there will be teams who lost out on the few available UFA’s who need a budget 2RD.That team will also get the benefit of flipping him at the deadline for an asset. Sounds like a good move for a bubble team that is somewhat price conscious.

Not making any predictions, but it does seem plausible.

 

 

 

[mll]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Myers may not waive to go to Arizona, but they would love his contract (after the bonus is paid). The get to count 6 on their cap while only paying 1 in real cash. Plus, they can trade him at the 2024 TDL as an expiring contract, right shot, big bodied D.

Arizona will easily make the floor - they really don't need Myers.  Armstrong also looking to exploit teams that need to dump cap - it's part of their strategy to gain draft picks and accelerate their rebuild.  

 

The only team that could be at risk of not hitting the floor is Chicago.  Teams are likely going to try and dump their LTIR contracts on Chicago.  

[MattWN.]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

I guess we have to consider the value of Myers at $3M AAV, and $500k real dollars to the team that receives him.  in September there will be teams who lost out on the few available UFA’s who need a budget 2RD.That team will also get the benefit of flipping him at the deadline for an asset. Sounds like a good move for a bubble team that is somewhat price conscious.

Not making any predictions, but it does seem plausible.

 

 

 

So are we retaining the extra 3 mil then? 

 

I'm not sure I'm following here. 

 

For shits and giggles, lets pretend this makes sense for cap reasons..

 

To Vancouver

3rd round pick

 

To ARZ

3mil of Myers contract

Vancouvers 2nd round pick

 

To Boston

Myers at 50% retained

 

I think any way you look at it, if it's any other team retaining money on Myers contract, it's going to outweigh any return we're getting for the player.

That being said, it's a fairly cheap price (pick wise) to shed 3 million of cap. However, you'd be missing out on a better return at the deadline by retaining the money yourself. 

 

To me, you're not replacing Myers for anything under 4-5 million on the market anyways, so I'd hold steady and move him at the TDL

[HKSR]

56 minutes ago, mll said:

They are at over 55M with a roster of only 12 players.  They have RFAs to extend and league minimum is 775K.  

 

As long time beat writer Craig Morgan puts it after adding Weber's contract:  "Finally, teams can no longer use the Coyotes’ need to get to the cap floor as leverage in trade scenarios. It helps the Coyotes from a negotiating standpoint."

 

Armstrong has been repeating ever since taking over about how they intend to leverage their cap space to gain additional assets.  Myers bonus being paid so late gives them even more leverage.  They'll know how much cap space Vancouver needs to clear to be cap compliant to start the season.  Can't just bury 6M worth of contracts in the AHL given roster minimum limits.  It's also not like there are many teams willing/able to give up cap space.

 

 

48 minutes ago, mll said:

Arizona will easily make the floor - they really don't need Myers.  Armstrong also looking to exploit teams that need to dump cap - it's part of their strategy to gain draft picks and accelerate their rebuild.  

 

The only team that could be at risk of not hitting the floor is Chicago.  Teams are likely going to try and dump their LTIR contracts on Chicago.  

This is all assuming ARZ doesn't decide to move anybody out.  There's a real possibility a player or players like Schmaltz, Kassian, etc are moved out for more futures that align with their youth movement, in which case they would love to add back some cap with a low cash payment and adding additional resources.  Think bigger man.  Not everything is black and white.

[MattWN.]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

This is all assuming ARZ doesn't decide to move anybody out.  There's a real possibility a player or players like Schmaltz, Kassian, etc are moved out for more futures that align with their youth movement, in which case they would love to add back some cap with a low cash payment and adding additional resources.  Think bigger man.  Not everything is black and white.

100%

 

And when/if that happens, they'll be adding more assets to take contracts back.

[Ted Lasso]

2 hours ago, MattWN. said:

So are we retaining the extra 3 mil then? 

 

I'm not sure I'm following here. 

 

For shits and giggles, lets pretend this makes sense for cap reasons..

 

To Vancouver

3rd round pick

 

To ARZ

3mil of Myers contract

Vancouvers 2nd round pick

 

To Boston

Myers at 50% retained

 

I think any way you look at it, if it's any other team retaining money on Myers contract, it's going to outweigh any return we're getting for the player.

That being said, it's a fairly cheap price (pick wise) to shed 3 million of cap. However, you'd be missing out on a better return at the deadline by retaining the money yourself. 

 

To me, you're not replacing Myers for anything under 4-5 million on the market anyways, so I'd hold steady and move him at the TDL

Maybe something like 

 

to OTT: Myers (50% retained) - the $2.5M cash savings appeals to them to be more attractive to potential buyers (which was mentioned at the TDL).  They also know they can flip Myers at the deadline to recoup the pick if needed.

 

to ARZ: OTT 2nd, $3M salary retention (for $500k cash)

 

to VAN: future considerations

 

 

[IBatch]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:27 PM, Provost said:

I don't think it will be that easy to ditch Myers unfortunately.  He has a 10 team no trade list, and having been in Buffalo and escaped I suspect he won't want to go back there. His bonus is also not due to get paid out until Sept 1st which means no one will take him on until then at the earliest.

It is Beauvillier, Garland, and Boeser that we have a chance of moving... but with a flat cap expect little in return except the cap space.


 

I think this needs to be pinned ontop of the trade proposal forum - with a little broader explanation so folks really get it. 

 

Ten teams.    If Myers wants to stay, him and his agent can easily identify the couple teams that can afford his full cap hit, and axe them off the top (ARI/CHI etc), then strategize the remaining 8 teams in descending order.    Not sure if a team can be a third party involved with a team on a NTC list, but that could also impact things.    
 

September.    By then all the good and decent UFAs will be long, long gone.   So Myers cap isn't going to help us upgrade that position that way.   And most trades will already be done as well.   Teams rosters are set by then, most for a month already.    Other than minor tweaks.  And this isn't a minor tweak.   If we found a suitor,  that cap space isn't going to help us entering the season anyways, although for sure having some for later helps and there could still be a team or two trying to fit everyone under it.   It's not impossible, but sure seems very unlikely.   And definitely not an easy trade to arrange.  Unless this happens: 

 

Buyouts.   It's possible the league allows one this summer with so many teams in cap trouble.   Including the leagues/Betttmans, favourite Owner/Boston.    If that occurs Myers isn't at all priority, but yes maybe then enough space overall would make a trade like this easier to do.   Decent odds he's the guy we buyout though.   Not sure the owners want to swallow OELs massive deal. 

 

IF the team throws caution to the wind, and buys Graves or something like that, goes 10% over their cap space which is allowed with hopes of trading Myers later, the cost goes way way up.    Not a good way to build a team, total JB move.   

 

We have other more reasonable  methods to gain cap space.   As Provost pointed out.   Garland/Beau/Brock.  And doubt we save a lot of cap space this year by doing that, but just enough to make our cap work this season - so Garland and Brock are likely candidates because their deals have more term attached.    With those trades, like Dickies, probably have someone back with one year left.   

 

Back to Myers.   I'd be surprised if he's not on our opening night roster.  

[MattWN.]

17 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Maybe something like 

 

to OTT: Myers (50% retained) - the $2.5M cash savings appeals to them to be more attractive to potential buyers (which was mentioned at the TDL).  They also know they can flip Myers at the deadline to recoup the pick if needed.

 

to ARZ: OTT 2nd, $3M salary retention (for $500k cash)

 

to VAN: future considerations

 

 

Possible to see that be the case. Not sure if Myers would have OTT on his list, but they have spots to fill.

 

For me personally, I'd still rather hold onto Myers and recoup the assets ourselves at the deadline. 

There aren't any defensemen on the market I would want to pay free agency prices and term on right now.

Keep Myers and kick the can down the road until next year. I also want to see what this team currently has.

If they shit the bed again, there is no point in adding more pieces to this core. 

 

[86Viking]

On 4/27/2023 at 2:33 PM, MattWN. said:

100%

 

Myers isn't accepting a trade anywhere that isn't immediately ready to compete for a cup. The same teams who are capped out. 

Sadly Myers only has a 10 team list so will he list bottom feeders sure but he is NOT able to force the Canucks to trade him to a cup contender especially given his cap hit. Maybe we can send Myers to Seattle, they might not retain Soucy and if they acquire him in September for next to nothing maybe Francis will bite (one could only hope!)

 

 

[86Viking]

On 4/27/2023 at 2:57 PM, HKSR said:

Didn't see your post.  Was replying to MattWN's...

 

But here's a few possibilities:

 

Pittsburgh has $21M in cap space next year.  Yes, they need to fill in a lot of their roster, but other than Jarry, most of the key guys are already locked in. 

Florida has $9M in cap space next year.  They need 2 bottom 6 forwards and 2 bottom pair defence.  Could easily see Myers fitting in there.

NJD maybe?  Depending on what happens with Severson and Nemec.  Could be in the market for a 3rd pair guy.

COL?  Erik Johnson's deal is done.  Could be a decent replacement at half the cost on the 3rd pair.

Florida with 9m in cap space would be willing to tie 6m of that up to fill 1 bottom pair D spot...I think not unless there is retention or a deal happens at tdl

[86Viking]

On 4/28/2023 at 12:08 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think these deals are possible. Personally at season's end I want to see Myers and Garland gone at a minimum. Maybe Beauvillier as well, but let's start with the hard ones.

 

I think a team will take Myers, Arizona is the common one here but there's a bunch of teams who might want a veteran RD.

You think a veteran NHL D man with a partial NTC is going to waive to play for that sad sack franchise in a University arena?!? Arizona would likely be the top team he does NOT want to go to imo. Unless, he doesn't care about winning and plays out part of a year in the hopes of being dealt to a contender at the TDL but that will be happening regardless since its his last year of his contract and Canucks are better WITHOUT him and his 6m cap hit!

[86Viking]

On 4/28/2023 at 5:19 AM, IBatch said:

Yes.    OEL was playing off this year ... for all our sakes let's hope it was his ankle/injury.   Coach doesn't have to actually play him though, could ride the pine here.    

Fingers crossed! That is the hurdle with allowing players to go represent their National team. Sweden doesn't pay OEL his hefty contract Vancouver does. If the injury he sustained playing for Sweden impacted his play then the player should own up to it and keep his loyalty to the team paying him millions per year. Go play for Sweden when you retire, cause an injury that makes you look terrible playing in the NHL the following year at a high cap hit does not look good at all on the player!

[MattWN.]

40 minutes ago, Neutral said:

Sadly Myers only has a 10 team list so will he list bottom feeders sure but he is NOT able to force the Canucks to trade him to a cup contender especially given his cap hit. Maybe we can send Myers to Seattle, they might not retain Soucy and if they acquire him in September for next to nothing maybe Francis will bite (one could only hope!)

 

 

No, but he can certainly look at the cap space teams have, and turn that 10 team list into 20. If he nixes the 10 teams with the most cap space, and the rest of the teams are capped out, it's going to limit our options even further. I think there will be more strategic planning done by Myers agent than just listing the 10 teams he doesn't want to play for.