[Proposal] This is how we clear cap space!

[24K PureCool]

The real way to clear cap space is clearly Aqua calling in the Italian mafia and making an offer OEL and Myers can't refuse.

/s

 

[mll]

7 hours ago, HKSR said:

That's fair.  Real cash cost on Myers after the bonus is $1M ($500k to ARZ or CHI).

 

Looks like that would be in the neighbourhood of a 3rd round pick: 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/2023-trade-deadline-countdown-which-teams-will-be-third-party-money-brokers

 

Still would be worthwhile if it just means our 3rd moves down to a 4th round pick to clear a full $6M in cap.

 

With Beauvillier, I guess it'd probably be just as easy to retain 25 to 50% on the 1 year to get something of good value in return.

 

Overall, the 2 trades would still save in the neighbourhood of $8M+ in cap space with minimal cost.

 

That's an indication for the TDL and not the full season.  Timing matters.

 

At the TDL it's use the cap space or lose it for nothing.  At the start of the season teams are still in roster construction mode.  

 

The cap hit is the more relevant factor as it's about building a competitive team while remaining cap compliant.  Without cap space a team can't make the changes they need to build the roster they want and teams with cap space know it.

 

At the start of the season every team got 82.5M for their regular roster.  If a 6M cap hit is on the roster for the full season he is going to use up 6M of the 82.5M.  If that player is added with only 25% of the season left he's not going to be using up 6M but only 1.5M of the 82.5M.  (In LTIR there's no banking of cap space or pro-rata and a 6M cap hit is a 6M cap hit whether at the TDL or the start of the season).

 

It's why teams who have avoided LTIR and started their season under the cap have quite a bit of cap space at the TDL.  Minnesota added for over 13M worth of contracts and even had room for more.  They would have never been able to add that much at the start of the season.

 

Here is this TDL with the pro-rated cap space ie the amount those contracts use up of the 82.5M those teams had available for the season.  

• 4th round pick to Minnesota for 55 days of O'Reilly.  74K in salary.  557K pro-rated cap hit.
• 5th round pick to Minnesota for 49 days of Orlov.  86K in salary.  337K pro-rated cap hit.
• 3rd round pick to Arizona for 44 days of Kane.  172K in salary.  624K pro-rated cap hit.

Myers not in the same ball-park even with retention.  Can't really use that TDL scale for him. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think these deals are possible. Personally at season's end I want to see Myers and Garland gone at a minimum. Maybe Beauvillier as well, but let's start with the hard ones.

 

I think a team will take Myers, Arizona is the common one here but there's a bunch of teams who might want a veteran RD. I think we'd have to give up a 3rd rounder to move him though but we've got two so I'd be happy to shed one of them. A 2nd is probably a bit much considering he has some value and just 1 year left. Doubt we get anything in return unless it's a cap dump which we don't want.

 

Garland is a tough one, I think he has a tiny bit of positive value. Maybe a 4th or 5th round pick in return. Again, there's a tonne of teams who could use him, most likely a young team thin on scoring. Montreal, Detroit, Philly, CBJ, Chicago, Anaheim, Arizona, SJS etc...because he just about fits with a rebuild. Of course it'd be nice to get something out of him (eg. Garland + Rathbone for Peeke?) but I doubt that happens so I'd be happy with a late round pick coming back. We might have to retain, I'd retain 1M max because we don't have much else dead cap.

 

Suddenly we've freed up 10-11M in cap space, we can work a lot with that. I'd be happy keeping Beauvillier and Boeser in that case.

 

We have 7M in extensions to pay and almost 4M in dead cap off the books, so in total, around 7-8M in cap space to play with when it's all said and done.

 

Our two priorities are acquire a 3C and top-4 defenceman to replace Myers. Easy.

 

Sign a 3C - Kampf, Suter, Sundqvist, Compher (bit expensive), Blueger - one of these guys will surely take 2-3M as a deal. I wouldn't go as high as 4M for the more expensive guys.

 

Sign a defenceman -  Graves, Gavrikov, Mayfield, Dumba, Severson (in that order) - doesn't matter which side, we need quality first. I'd go after Graves or Gavrikov, throw 5-6M at them, they're young and can help us for the next 5 years. Mayfield to pair with Quinn is tempting but I'd rather we get a solid guy to pair with Hronek and Hughes can suffer with whoever because he can really carry a pairing whereas I think Hronek can't and will get exposed.

 

Fits out budget perfectly. Long story short:
OUT: Myers + 3rd + Garland

IN: 4th + Bleuger + Graves

 

Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko

PDG - Miller - Boeser

Beauvillier - Bleuger - Hoglander

Joshua - Aman - Podkolzin

 

Graves - Hronek

Hughes - Bear

OEL - Burroughs

Hirose

Rathbone

[wai_lai416]

13 hours ago, MattWN. said:

100% the biggest issue moving forward.

 

If I'm the coach/gm and Christmas rolls around and OEL is still shitting the bed, he's heading to Abbotsford to the remainder of the season to ride the bus. Take the 1mil in cap savings, and pretend he doesn't exist. Wait and see how long he sticks it out there.

how are you planning to send him to abbotsford to ride the bus with a full NMC?

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, MattWN. said:

100% the biggest issue moving forward.

 

If I'm the coach/gm and Christmas rolls around and OEL is still shitting the bed, he's heading to Abbotsford to the remainder of the season to ride the bus. Take the 1mil in cap savings, and pretend he doesn't exist. Wait and see how long he sticks it out there.

The Wade Redden treatment, think it was NYR a who did this.   

[IBatch]

50 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

how are you planning to send him to abbotsford to ride the bus with a full NMC?

Yes.    OEL was playing off this year ... for all our sakes let's hope it was his ankle/injury.   Coach doesn't have to actually play him though, could ride the pine here.    

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think these deals are possible. Personally at season's end I want to see Myers and Garland gone at a minimum. Maybe Beauvillier as well, but let's start with the hard ones.

 

I think a team will take Myers, Arizona is the common one here but there's a bunch of teams who might want a veteran RD. I think we'd have to give up a 3rd rounder to move him though but we've got two so I'd be happy to shed one of them. A 2nd is probably a bit much considering he has some value and just 1 year left. Doubt we get anything in return unless it's a cap dump which we don't want.

 

Garland is a tough one, I think he has a tiny bit of positive value. Maybe a 4th or 5th round pick in return. Again, there's a tonne of teams who could use him, most likely a young team thin on scoring. Montreal, Detroit, Philly, CBJ, Chicago, Anaheim, Arizona, SJS etc...because he just about fits with a rebuild. Of course it'd be nice to get something out of him (eg. Garland + Rathbone for Peeke?) but I doubt that happens so I'd be happy with a late round pick coming back. We might have to retain, I'd retain 1M max because we don't have much else dead cap.

 

Suddenly we've freed up 10-11M in cap space, we can work a lot with that. I'd be happy keeping Beauvillier and Boeser in that case.

 

We have 7M in extensions to pay and almost 4M in dead cap off the books, so in total, around 7-8M in cap space to play with when it's all said and done.

 

Our two priorities are acquire a 3C and top-4 defenceman to replace Myers. Easy.

 

Sign a 3C - Kampf, Suter, Sundqvist, Compher (bit expensive), Blueger - one of these guys will surely take 2-3M as a deal. I wouldn't go as high as 4M for the more expensive guys.

 

Sign a defenceman -  Graves, Gavrikov, Mayfield, Dumba, Severson (in that order) - doesn't matter which side, we need quality first. I'd go after Graves or Gavrikov, throw 5-6M at them, they're young and can help us for the next 5 years. Mayfield to pair with Quinn is tempting but I'd rather we get a solid guy to pair with Hronek and Hughes can suffer with whoever because he can really carry a pairing whereas I think Hronek can't and will get exposed.

 

Fits out budget perfectly. Long story short:
OUT: Myers + 3rd + Garland

IN: 4th + Bleuger + Graves

 

Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko

PDG - Miller - Boeser

Beauvillier - Bleuger - Hoglander

Joshua - Aman - Podkolzin

 

Graves - Hronek

Hughes - Bear

OEL - Burroughs

Hirose

Rathbone

Only thing with Myers, likely if a team takes him, there won't be anything left to pick up via free agency.    Team would have to risk going way over the cap in July to find a solid replacement, and then hope they can sell him for cheap in September.    Not impossible, however it's unlikely.    Personally think we have him on our opening night roster.    Maybe we sell him with retention during the season. 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.    OEL was playing off this year ... for all our sakes let's hope it was his ankle/injury.   Coach doesn't have to actually play him though, could ride the pine here.    

If OEL is a healthy scratch then we are allocating 8 mil to a bottom six D spot. 

[HKSR]

7 hours ago, mll said:

 

That's an indication for the TDL and not the full season.  Timing matters.

 

At the TDL it's use the cap space or lose it for nothing.  At the start of the season teams are still in roster construction mode.  

 

The cap hit is the more relevant factor as it's about building a competitive team while remaining cap compliant.  Without cap space a team can't make the changes they need to build the roster they want and teams with cap space know it.

 

At the start of the season every team got 82.5M for their regular roster.  If a 6M cap hit is on the roster for the full season he is going to use up 6M of the 82.5M.  If that player is added with only 25% of the season left he's not going to be using up 6M but only 1.5M of the 82.5M.  (In LTIR there's no banking of cap space or pro-rata and a 6M cap hit is a 6M cap hit whether at the TDL or the start of the season).

 

It's why teams who have avoided LTIR and started their season under the cap have quite a bit of cap space at the TDL.  Minnesota added for over 13M worth of contracts and even had room for more.  They would have never been able to add that much at the start of the season.

 

Here is this TDL with the pro-rated cap space ie the amount those contracts use up of the 82.5M those teams had available for the season.  

• 4th round pick to Minnesota for 55 days of O'Reilly.  74K in salary.  557K pro-rated cap hit.
• 5th round pick to Minnesota for 49 days of Orlov.  86K in salary.  337K pro-rated cap hit.
• 3rd round pick to Arizona for 44 days of Kane.  172K in salary.  624K pro-rated cap hit.

Myers not in the same ball-park even with retention.  Can't really use that TDL scale for him. 

Yes, but at the same time, the NHL has also spoken about teams trying to hit cap floors with players on LTIR being scrutinized more heavily moving forward.  So the use of insured contracts to hit cap floors SHOULD be a thing of the past.  The 3rd party broker transactions like this Myers one is a fantastic way of adding cap with low actual dollars being paid.  Could be the next big thing for franchises like ARZ or CHI.

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If OEL is a healthy scratch then we are allocating 8 mil to a bottom six D spot. 

Yes.   I'm sure OEL can play ... better than Stillman lol.    One sure would hope.    

[spook007]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Only thing with Myers, likely if a team takes him, there won't be anything left to pick up via free agency.    Team would have to risk going way over the cap in July to find a solid replacement, and then hope they can sell him for cheap in September.    Not impossible, however it's unlikely.    Personally think we have him on our opening night roster.    Maybe we sell him with retention during the season. 

Most likely.... 

[mll]

54 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yes, but at the same time, the NHL has also spoken about teams trying to hit cap floors with players on LTIR being scrutinized more heavily moving forward.  So the use of insured contracts to hit cap floors SHOULD be a thing of the past.  The 3rd party broker transactions like this Myers one is a fantastic way of adding cap with low actual dollars being paid.  Could be the next big thing for franchises like ARZ or CHI.

Doesn't sound like it's going to be addressed any time soon.  Would require a rule change.  So till then teams can use LTIR to hit the floor.  

 

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes.    OEL was playing off this year ... for all our sakes let's hope it was his ankle/injury.   Coach doesn't have to actually play him though, could ride the pine here.    

yes of coz but the poster was probably want to force him into riding the bus so he would waive his no trade so we could actually even attempt to move him

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, mll said:

Doesn't sound like it's going to be addressed any time soon.  Would require a rule change.  So till then teams can use LTIR to hit the floor.  

 

Myers may not waive to go to Arizona, but they would love his contract (after the bonus is paid). The get to count 6 on their cap while only paying 1 in real cash. Plus, they can trade him at the 2024 TDL as an expiring contract, right shot, big bodied D.

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

yes of coz but the poster was probably want to force him into riding the bus so he would waive his no trade so we could actually even attempt to move him

Yes exactly the intent.   Why i used Wade Redden as an example.   He was the first team that tried to hide cap in the minors because he was way way underperforming (about the same cap hit OEL has now, but didn't have a NMC which means a player can't be dealt with in this way - or exposed if their is an expansion draft etc).   My point was kind of the same thing, if OEL plays so bad he should be riding the pine, then let him ride the pine.    Also as an aside, found the timing of Tochetts hiring, and OEL going on the LTIR interesting.   OEL talked about Tochett, said the right things, and in that also included he knew what to expect from him as a coach.   They had some history of clashing in ARI, and a little surprised the media hasn't brought that up (yet).     Blocking shots, finishing checks,  playing hard against your man etc, all the time, plus using the gym and other training available to the players will be constantly worked on.     No cheating.   OEL was nothing like his first year with us,  it seems reasonable, it was his ankle and he backed off the chippy physical stuff to a degree because he was protecting himself which makes some sense.   Hope he spends the four months doing exactly what Tochett expects.   And also hope that his leash is fair.    OEL/Hronek is the pairing I think they go with.    QHs Bear/Schenn ??.     

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Myers may not waive to go to Arizona, but they would love his contract (after the bonus is paid). The get to count 6 on their cap while only paying 1 in real cash. Plus, they can trade him at the 2024 TDL as an expiring contract, right shot, big bodied D.

And Myers says no thanks.   Plus there are loads of other players, that don't have the same trade protection, that ARI can consider instead.    They won't be filling their roster with these guys, maybe one or two out of a pool of probably 50 contracts and 20 teams looking to work with them.   Is it impossible?  No.  But it sure doesn't seem very probable either.   Not sure why Myers wouldn't pick a team that has a shot at the playoffs.   Might as well just stay here and have his shot with the place he wants to be.    Won't be too hard for him and his agent to figure out which teams have some cap space even on a two way retention deal, and cross them off the list.    The only way I see Myers going is if we pay a healthy sum to get it done, and it would be before his bonus is paid.    Clearing his cap space at say the draft, makes a lot more sense then mid September.   All the good or ok or risky guys will have had deals well before then.    Love it if we got a big fish this off-season, to compliment and help complete our d-core.    Would be good for the team.    

 

 

Thing is, i'm pretty sure Myers salary is already slotted to go to Hronek and EPs raise.    Yes we could trade Beau or Garland.    Or Brock.    We'd have to do both really to add a Graves.    That's what i see them doing if we are going to commit to another free agent this summer.    Then Myers deal is over at the end of the year, he's either offered pennie's on the dollar to stay as a 3rd pairing D or they part ways.    If we trade him at the deadline, we are probably out of the playoffs. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by IBatch

[HKSR]

55 minutes ago, mll said:

Doesn't sound like it's going to be addressed any time soon.  Would require a rule change.  So till then teams can use LTIR to hit the floor.  

 

It was also legal when the Canucks signed Luongo to that extended contract. 

[HKSR]

38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Myers may not waive to go to Arizona, but they would love his contract (after the bonus is paid). The get to count 6 on their cap while only paying 1 in real cash. Plus, they can trade him at the 2024 TDL as an expiring contract, right shot, big bodied D.

Exactly.  Even if Myers doesn't waive to go there, ARZ can still pickup half the contract to pay a measly $500k and throw $3M towards their cap.  They even get a draft pick out of it.  I see no reason why ARZ wouldn't love that arrangement.

[Ted Lasso]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Exactly.  Even if Myers doesn't waive to go there, ARZ can still pickup half the contract to pay a measly $500k and throw $3M towards their cap.  They even get a draft pick out of it.  I see no reason why ARZ wouldn't love that arrangement.

Firstly, great idea in the OP.  Agree with @mll that the prices will be higher to take on that cap for the entire season (vs. TDL prices). 

 

As for the 3 way deal with ARZ, that seems to have the unique potential to be a win/win/win. 

 

[MattWN.]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Exactly.  Even if Myers doesn't waive to go there, ARZ can still pickup half the contract to pay a measly $500k and throw $3M towards their cap.  They even get a draft pick out of it.  I see no reason why ARZ wouldn't love that arrangement.

Because they can get more value back for that cap space. If they're taking on 3 mil in cap space, they're getting a 2nd round pick back at the very least. Too many teams are up against the cap to expect ARZ to just wilfully take on money to make the cap floor. They won't be doing it for free, or for late round picks.