Jim Bennings legacy without the OEL trade. Grade him out of 10.

[Baggins]

40 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

You can get away with lack of skating ability (or even any defensive ability in the case of Jordan Subban, who actually was selected for a AHL allstar game like Clendening was as well) in the AHL. He was a losing scratch ticket moved for a unscratched ticket.  Horrible pro evaluation.

 

Failing to make the squad on a deep team (which the Canes did have back then - a deep blueline) is a far cry from sticking on a bad team (OJ for instance). 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this subject (if for no other reason, Forsling wasn't subject to waivers for several years when JB dealt him).  Given the empty prospect/farm system Benning inherited from Gillis, he couldn't afford to take short-cut solutions.  Or if he did, make sure that 'quick fix' is actually going to help the team.

When JB dealt him he was just a 5th round longshot without any guarantee. He was traded like 7 or 8 months after being drafted. If there was any certainty of Forsling becoming a top 4 d-man he would have been drafted long before the 5th round. He was a longshot years away and nothing more. Clendening was further along and at least had some NHL experience along with AHL success. The only real difference between Clendening and Forsling in Chicago was Clen was behind a contender D and barely had an NHL opportunity, while Forsling was behind a weaker Chicago team and had ample NHL opportunity to seize a regular spot. In the end both had run out of time in Chicago because of waiver elligibity. Personally I think it took Forsling being traded by Chicago and then claimed off waivers to finally have the penny drop and get it all together. Clendening was just another in a long list of players with AHL success that didn't translate to NHL success.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

When JB dealt him he was just a 5th round longshot without any guarantee. He was traded like 7 or 8 months after being drafted. If there was any certainty of Forsling becoming a top 4 d-man he would have been drafted long before the 5th round. He was a longshot years away and nothing more. Clendening was further along and at least had some NHL experience along with AHL success. The only real difference between Clendening and Forsling in Chicago was Clen was behind a contender D and barely had an NHL opportunity, while Forsling was behind a weaker Chicago team and had ample NHL opportunity to seize a regular spot. In the end both had run out of time in Chicago because of waiver elligibity. Personally I think it took Forsling being traded by Chicago and then claimed off waivers to finally have the penny drop and get it all together. Clendening was just another in a long list of players with AHL success that didn't translate to NHL success.

My POV, it took him being reunited with his head coach in Florida (same head coach in Chicago that gave him a chance at the NHL level...played like half a season each year there).

Edited July 4, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Bones and Hogs would both likely clear. Woo being a heavy bodied, young, lots of runway of development left, right shot D would for sure get claimed. 

So you're saying if you were the GM of one of the six bottom teams in the league you wouldn't take Hogs for free? You usually speak so highly of him. 

 

Rath and Woo are a coin toss but I don't see Hogs clearing. And Hogs has more competition to make the team than Rath and Woo have.

[Baggins]

52 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

My POV, it took him being reunited with his head coach in Florida (same head coach in Chicago that gave him a chance at the NHL level...played like half a season each year there).

His half seasons is why I said he had ample opportunity to succeed. Yet still failed to secure a spot. It just took him too long to figure out how to succeed in the NHL. Some are simply late bloomers that just take time to figure it out. Some never do figure out translating AHL success into NHL success. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

His half seasons is why I said he had ample opportunity to succeed. Yet still failed to secure a spot. It just took him too long to figure out how to succeed in the NHL. Some are simply late bloomers that just take time to figure it out. Some never do figure out translating AHL success into NHL success. 

I think we were all spoiled from Edler.  He was a freak of nature developmental wise.  From beer league, drafted in the 3rd round, to the NHL in a few years.  

[whysoserious]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

When JB dealt him he was just a 5th round longshot without any guarantee. He was traded like 7 or 8 months after being drafted. If there was any certainty of Forsling becoming a top 4 d-man he would have been drafted long before the 5th round. He was a longshot years away and nothing more. Clendening was further along and at least had some NHL experience along with AHL success. The only real difference between Clendening and Forsling in Chicago was Clen was behind a contender D and barely had an NHL opportunity, while Forsling was behind a weaker Chicago team and had ample NHL opportunity to seize a regular spot. In the end both had run out of time in Chicago because of waiver elligibity. Personally I think it took Forsling being traded by Chicago and then claimed off waivers to finally have the penny drop and get it all together. Clendening was just another in a long list of players with AHL success that didn't translate to NHL success.

When Gustav Forsling was traded he was playing regular minutes in the SEL and coming off a strong world junior tournament. He was trending up as a prospect and easily would have gone 2nd round in a redraft. Clendening on the other hand was in his draft +4 season and on the brink of becoming waiver fodder because he couldn't skate. 

[canuck73_3]

6 minutes ago, whysoserious said:

When Gustav Forsling was traded he was playing regular minutes in the SEL and coming off a strong world junior tournament. He was trending up as a prospect and easily would have gone 2nd round in a redraft. Clendening on the other hand was in his draft +4 season and on the brink of becoming waiver fodder because he couldn't skate. 

Not sure where “he couldn’t skate” comes from.  
 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by canuck73_3

[NewbieCanuckFan]

25 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not sure where “he couldn’t skate” comes from.  
 

 

I actually saw a few Comets games involving the Canucks AHL affiliate and Rockford (Adam's team).  He, to me, was noticably bad in that department (skating). So I'm not sure what happened to him from that pre-draft scouting report until that season in the AHL where I saw him.  Injuries?  I have no idea.

 

The scouting report was right about his offensive skills (reason why he was able to stick despite that glaring weakness).  Wasn't there a former Canuck player (*think* the acronym to his name was something like "M.A.B."?) was pretty much awful at everything but had a legit NHL skill level shot from the point.  Able to eke out a bit of a NHL career despite those weaknessess because of the skill.  He played around the time Gillis was GM I think?

 

edit:  I neglected to mention that I had no idea who the **** Gustav Forsling was at the time of the trade nor followed his time with the Hawks (I just assumed that part of the reason for him 'getting it' was due his head coach on the Black Hawks & Panthers [Coach Q]).

Edited July 5, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[whysoserious]

49 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not sure where “he couldn’t skate” comes from.  
 

 

If you watched him play it would have been abundantly clear

Edited July 5, 2023 by whysoserious

[canuck73_3]

20 minutes ago, whysoserious said:

If you watched him play it would have been abundantly clear

I did, his skating wasn’t the issue, his defensive awareness was lacking and he didn’t put up points near enough a level to make up for that at the NHL level. 

[whysoserious]

21 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I did, his skating wasn’t the issue, his defensive awareness was lacking and he didn’t put up points near enough a level to make up for that at the NHL level. 

Of course him being poor defensively was also an issue. But, I don't know what to tell you if don't think his skating was an issue.

[Baggins]

12 hours ago, whysoserious said:

When Gustav Forsling was traded he was playing regular minutes in the SEL and coming off a strong world junior tournament. He was trending up as a prospect and easily would have gone 2nd round in a redraft. Clendening on the other hand was in his draft +4 season and on the brink of becoming waiver fodder because he couldn't skate. 

still... a... longshot...

[Ghostsof1915]

-1000000000000000000000000000000

 

Because he drafted and let go of Tryamkin.

 

Well that's what I heard.....

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

still... a... longshot...

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:20 PM, Baggins said:

Forsling took too long to get to where he needed to be for a full time NHL spot. That goes ignored around here. Chicago traded him to the Canes as he hadn't made the team as a regular and he was waiver elligible. The fools. Then was claimed off waivers by Florida from the Canes when they tried to send him to the AHL. I guess the Canes are also fools. I'd say it's highly likely the same result would have occured here. Forsling wasn't a homerun pick. That would be a 5th rounder that secured a top four spot before hitting waiver elligibilty. He was a homerun waiver pickup, a late bloomer. When a borderline prospect doesn't make the grade before becoming waiver elligible, it's unlikely to happen with his first team. Spin it any way you want but Clendening actually had pretty good AHL numbers along with size. Chicago moved him for the same reason they moved Forsling. They were waiver ellibigle, too good to clear, on the NHL fringe, and they had better options.

 

This fall Hogs, Rathbone, and Woo all face waivers. Roll the dice or look to move them? That's the problem GM's face. Prospects only get so long before you either move them or risk losing them for nothing. Unless of course you're willing to gift a player a spot he hasn't earned while having better options available. 

This is a fair post even though I kinda still disagree with what happened. If a player you drafted even has a 20% chance yet of being an NHL player , you hold onto him. They should live and die as NHL'ers on your watch. Just keeping waiting. Till you know. We waited this long with Rathbone and Woo. Let's wait a couple more years 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:50 PM, whysoserious said:

Of course him being poor defensively was also an issue. But, I don't know what to tell you if don't think his skating was an issue.

Yeah, while there are definitely a few pre-draft reports that mention Clendening being a “good skater,” if you Google “Adam Clendening skating,” you’ll get a bunch of hits with quotes about him needing to improve his skating. Even the Blackhawks team website has a quote around six months post-draft where Stan Bowman says “his skating is something that we’d like him to continue to improve.”

 

I think a player like Clendening probably looked quicker than he really was, to some eyes, when he was skating against NCAA competition. And also his puck skills and stickhandling would make him look faster than his pure skating level. But once in the pros, with higher pace and measured against much faster average skaters, he looked a step behind, and it was pretty clear that Clendening needed to really work on his skating, or else it would continue to limit his effectiveness at the highest level.

Edited July 9, 2023 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[Qwags]

I don't think you can rate Benning's legacy without his worst move. It's funny to think that without Eriksson, Benning probably doesn't acquire OEL.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Qwags said:

I don't think you can rate Benning's legacy without his worst move. It's funny to think that without Eriksson, Benning probably doesn't acquire OEL.

It's neither of those two guys.  It's that in 7 years JB couldn't hire a NHL head coach.  Dave freaking Nonis didn't take long.

[MichaelPeca]

Even without the OEL trade JB was terrible. Say no more than Tyler Toffoli. JB trades a second round pick and a decent prospect and publicly states that the trade is great assuming Toffoli can be signed. Toffoli then states he wants to stay in Vancouver but JB makes him zero offers and let's him walk, only to sign a much less than anticipated deal with MTL. Toffoli then lights up the Canucks at will. Just a brutal GM. 

[Kevin Biestra]

9 minutes ago, MichaelPeca said:

Even without the OEL trade JB was terrible. Say no more than Tyler Toffoli. JB trades a second round pick and a decent prospect and publicly states that the trade is great assuming Toffoli can be signed. Toffoli then states he wants to stay in Vancouver but JB makes him zero offers and let's him walk, only to sign a much less than anticipated deal with MTL. Toffoli then lights up the Canucks at will. Just a brutal GM. 

 

Jim Benning was crap but this is one of the moves I give him a pass on.  He was filling a hole due to Boeser's injury in acquiring Toffoli and then he had no reason to expect COVID to come in and create a flat cap.

 

That said...I'm generally not big on trading anything for rentals...2nd rounders etc. for guys who are UFA at the end of that year.  I've seen too much of it over the years.  Derek Roy, Eric Weinrich and so on.  But nonetheless it is common practice and with the information Benning had at the time...that one was one of his...forgivable errors in my opinion.