The NHL’s 10 Worst Contracts of the 2023-24 Season

[canuck73_3]

Nurse only at 10 is staggering  brutal deal. 

[wai_lai416]

12 hours ago, timberz21 said:

FYI, already discrimination based on age since contracts for 35+ are treated differently, but pointless to argue with a know-it-all anyways.

All I suggested what to change the terms limits, something that already exist in the current CBA and something the NHL actually proposed during the last lockout, or non-guaranteed contract something that exists in other sports, you know… facts.  All You’ve brought to the discussion what a bunch a random, non-sense, hypothetical numbers and doomsday scenario, that is only related to the Canucks point of view.  Guess what there are 31 others teams in the NHL.  I wasn’t suggesting from a Canucks point of view but league wide.

 

So You can keep spending on your “balanced” team, your buyouts and trade pick to get rid of bad contracts, worked wonders the last 10 years for us… huh wait.

The only sports that doesn’t have guaranteed contract is what? NFL? Where most players in majority of the position will make as much as a nhl star player? And players will sit out hold out on final years to avoid injuries until they get an pextension? Plenty of teams have bad contracts buy out penalty etc and still make the playoff Minnesota have 10+ in buyout penalty and they still make the playoffs loui wasnt the sole reason we miss the playoff nor was OEL. Bad management grabbing incompatible players building bad chemistry did. Non guaranteed contracts you might as well have no hitting hockey. Who’s going to lay their body to block a shot? Who’s going to make a hit? If they land on IR they don’t even get paid the full amount just like the nfl for the non guaranteed contracts. Imagine training in the off season and gets an injury. The only reason nfl have non guaranteed contract is because it’s the most injured sports out there.. and most injury will cost minimum 25% of the season.. it wasn’t there so you can cut players for your mistake. Look at how many season injury in preseason and week 1? The insurance just to cover those guaranteed contract would be massive 

 

also cutting those players most still have signing bonus and even guaranteed money left.. those still counts against the cap. So essentially it’s kinda like a buyout. Let say if a players negotiated 50% signing bonus/salary spread over 5 years for 8mil the other part is non guaranteed.. if u cut the player say 3 years in.. there’s still 12 mil worth of dead cap spread over the remaining 3 years don’t see how that helps team get out of bad contract.. it’s even worse since it’s not spread out over double.  Unless you are making league minimum most players will have some sort of signing bonus or partial guaranteed.. it only hurts the player and the only benefit the team gains is not having to pay

Edited September 13, 2023 by wai_lai416

[timberz21]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

The only sports that doesn’t have guaranteed contract is what? NFL? Where most players in majority of the position will make as much as a nhl star player? And players will sit out hold out on final years to avoid injuries until they get an pextension? Plenty of teams have bad contracts buy out penalty etc and still make the playoff Minnesota have 10+ in buyout penalty and they still make the playoffs loui wasnt the sole reason we miss the playoff nor was OEL. Bad management grabbing incompatible players building bad chemistry did. Non guaranteed contracts you might as well have no hitting hockey. Who’s going to lay their body to block a shot? Who’s going to make a hit? If they land on IR they don’t even get paid the full amount just like the nfl for the non guaranteed contracts. Imagine training in the off season and gets an injury. The only reason nfl have non guaranteed contract is because it’s the most injured sports out there.. and most injury will cost minimum 25% of the season.. it wasn’t there so you can cut players for your mistake. Look at how many season injury in preseason and week 1? The insurance just to cover those guaranteed contract would be massive 

 

also cutting those players most still have signing bonus and even guaranteed money left.. those still counts against the cap. So essentially it’s kinda like a buyout. Let say if a players negotiated 50% signing bonus/salary spread over 5 years for 8mil the other part is non guaranteed.. if u cut the player say 3 years in.. there’s still 12 mil worth of dead cap spread over the remaining 3 years don’t see how that helps team get out of bad contract.. it’s even worse since it’s not spread out over double.  Unless you are making league minimum most players will have some sort of signing bonus or partial guaranteed.. it only hurts the player and the only benefit the team gains is not having to pay

So your reasoning is :

- The only sports with non-guaranteed contract is the NFL, because it's a contact sports and lots of injury.

- But if hockey introduces it, then it will become a non-contact sports and players will stop playing hard.  

 That make sense...

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/breakdowns/guaranteed-money-structure/

Most NFL player contracts are fully guaranteed, but if not fully guaranteed, then guaranteed for injury only, meaning if a player is cut for skill or cap reasons they will not receive this money; they would only receive the money if they suffered a football related injury and could not play and/or were cut.

 

There is a bunch a rules regarding non-guaranteed contract.  Can't just cut a player any day and void the deal.  Most are fully guaranteed if not a good chunk is, can't just cut a player after 1 year and not pay him.  Some contract have deadlines when teams need to make a decision if they want to get out now or fully guarantee the contract until the end. 

 

BTW, team options (and to an an extent, players options too) are type of non-guaranteed contracts and most league has them.  While there are small buyout fees to not exercise team option, the amount are usually insignificant.  Plus, if you introduce a significant change like non-guaranteed contract (whatever form) they will need to be tailored to the NHL reality and not just copy the NFL.  Of course there are going to be special provisions (accounting and legal babble way above my paygrade) to deal with the salary cap accounting, you can't keep current model and introduce something like that.  But I didn't think I needed to explain that, it was not the purpose of my proposal.

 

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

So your reasoning is :

- The only sports with non-guaranteed contract is the NFL, because it's a contact sports and lots of injury.

- But if hockey introduces it, then it will become a non-contact sports and players will stop playing hard.  

 That make sense...

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/breakdowns/guaranteed-money-structure/

Most NFL player contracts are fully guaranteed, but if not fully guaranteed, then guaranteed for injury only, meaning if a player is cut for skill or cap reasons they will not receive this money; they would only receive the money if they suffered a football related injury and could not play and/or were cut.

 

There is a bunch a rules regarding non-guaranteed contract.  Can't just cut a player any day and void the deal.  Most are fully guaranteed if not a good chunk is, can't just cut a player after 1 year and not pay him.  Some contract have deadlines when teams need to make a decision if they want to get out now or fully guarantee the contract until the end. 

 

BTW, team options (and to an an extent, players options too) are type of non-guaranteed contracts and most league has them.  While there are small buyout fees to not exercise team option, the amount are usually insignificant.  Plus, if you introduce a significant change like non-guaranteed contract (whatever form) they will need to be tailored to the NHL reality and not just copy the NFL.  Of course there are going to be special provisions (accounting and legal babble way above my paygrade) to deal with the salary cap accounting, you can't keep current model and introduce something like that.  But I didn't think I needed to explain that, it was not the purpose of my proposal.

 

lol a lot of nfl contracts are not fully guaranteed.. less than 10% of the players in nfl have a fully guaranteed nfl contracts.. and a lot of them do not have a fully guaranteed contract for injury... hamlin for example got a 45% paycut for IR pay when he had the cadiac arrest.. unless you are a star player with leverage it's hard to get a full injury guaranteed contract.. most have partial guaranteed where if they are cut or released while injured they will be paid the partial guaranteed amount. 

 

basically you want a get out of jail card for free and allow the GMs to be even more ridiculous with the contracts because you are proposing ways to to limit or get out of bad contracts that were the teams/gm fault in the first place. no one forced the gms to sign players at the tail end of their prime to long term contracts. the GM decides to sign them to long term so they can spread out the cap.. you think a player will say no to say a 10mil x 6 vs a 8mil x 8? but GM obviously would prefer the 8x8 even if it means the last 4 years of the contract is negative value because it allows them to sign an extra 2mil player during that 4 years of peak performance

 

i dunno how you interpet team option/player option s a non guaranteed contract. it's an optional year for either side.. they either option for an extra year or they don't.. there's no buyout fee if the team decides to not exercise the option.. it's an OPTION.. and if the player opts in then they are stuck with the full cap hit/salary unless they negotiate a buyout. even if nhl have team option or player option.. doubt you can get any established players to sign a "team option" instead of giving them the extra year.. team options are usually for young players that you are overpaying for potential.. like the ones ottawa are throwing out there.

 

it doesn't matter how you tailor the non guaranteed contract to the nhl.. it'll never happen.. just like it'll never happen in the nba or mlb

[timberz21]

56 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol a lot of nfl contracts are not fully guaranteed.. less than 10% of the players in nfl have a fully guaranteed nfl contracts.. and a lot of them do not have a fully guaranteed contract for injury... hamlin for example got a 45% paycut for IR pay when he had the cadiac arrest.. unless you are a star player with leverage it's hard to get a full injury guaranteed contract.. most have partial guaranteed where if they are cut or released while injured they will be paid the partial guaranteed amount. 

 

basically you want a get out of jail card for free and allow the GMs to be even more ridiculous with the contracts because you are proposing ways to to limit or get out of bad contracts that were the teams/gm fault in the first place. no one forced the gms to sign players at the tail end of their prime to long term contracts. the GM decides to sign them to long term so they can spread out the cap.. you think a player will say no to say a 10mil x 6 vs a 8mil x 8? but GM obviously would prefer the 8x8 even if it means the last 4 years of the contract is negative value because it allows them to sign an extra 2mil player during that 4 years of peak performance

 

i dunno how you interpet team option/player option s a non guaranteed contract. it's an optional year for either side.. they either option for an extra year or they don't.. there's no buyout fee if the team decides to not exercise the option.. it's an OPTION.. and if the player opts in then they are stuck with the full cap hit/salary unless they negotiate a buyout. even if nhl have team option or player option.. doubt you can get any established players to sign a "team option" instead of giving them the extra year.. team options are usually for young players that you are overpaying for potential.. like the ones ottawa are throwing out there.

 

it doesn't matter how you tailor the non guaranteed contract to the nhl.. it'll never happen.. just like it'll never happen in the nba or mlb

Ffs you're arguing for the sake of arguing.   To use your word  "ITS AN OPTION", meaning there is a choice to be made.  Guarantee = no choice.  Team option meaning the team has all the leverage and Player option meaning the player has the leverage.  But there is still a choice to be made.  

 

Yes there are buyout fees:

 

"The release left the Blue Jays on the hook for the remaining $38-million on Tulowitzki’s contract: $20-million in 2019, $14-million in 2020, and a $4-million buyout on his 2021 team option."

 

"Kevin Kiermaier, OF, Rays
$13 million club option ($2.5 million buyout)
Kiermaier remains a stellar defender in center field, but the Rays are unlikely to pay this price for a 32-year-old who has played more than 129 games in a season only once in his career (2015) and owns an 88 OPS+ since the beginning of 2018. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)

 

Evan Longoria, 3B, Giants
$13 million club option ($5 million buyout)
Longoria still had five years left on his six-year, $100 million contract when the Rays traded him to the Giants after the 2017 season. He ended up recording a 103 OPS+ with 6.9 WAR in 477 games for San Francisco over the past five seasons. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)

 

Wil Myers, OF, Padres
$20 million club option ($1 million buyout)
San Diego signed Myers to a six-year, $83 million contract extension after he made the 2016 NL All-Star team and finished that season with 28 homers, 28 steals and 3.5 WAR. The right-handed slugger had a 112 OPS+ with 7.6 WAR during the lifespan of the deal. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)"

 

 

You're right about one thing though....it'll never happen in the NBA, because IT ALREADY EXIST!!!
https://www.spotrac.com/news/projecting-2022-nba-non-guaranteed-contracts-1508/

 

 

[wai_lai416]

7 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Ffs you're arguing for the sake of arguing.   To use your word  "ITS AN OPTION", meaning there is a choice to be made.  Guarantee = no choice.  Team option meaning the team has all the leverage and Player option meaning the player has the leverage.  But there is still a choice to be made.  

 

Yes there are buyout fees:

 

"The release left the Blue Jays on the hook for the remaining $38-million on Tulowitzki’s contract: $20-million in 2019, $14-million in 2020, and a $4-million buyout on his 2021 team option."

 

"Kevin Kiermaier, OF, Rays
$13 million club option ($2.5 million buyout)
Kiermaier remains a stellar defender in center field, but the Rays are unlikely to pay this price for a 32-year-old who has played more than 129 games in a season only once in his career (2015) and owns an 88 OPS+ since the beginning of 2018. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)

 

Evan Longoria, 3B, Giants
$13 million club option ($5 million buyout)
Longoria still had five years left on his six-year, $100 million contract when the Rays traded him to the Giants after the 2017 season. He ended up recording a 103 OPS+ with 6.9 WAR in 477 games for San Francisco over the past five seasons. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)

 

Wil Myers, OF, Padres
$20 million club option ($1 million buyout)
San Diego signed Myers to a six-year, $83 million contract extension after he made the 2016 NL All-Star team and finished that season with 28 homers, 28 steals and 3.5 WAR. The right-handed slugger had a 112 OPS+ with 7.6 WAR during the lifespan of the deal. (UPDATE: OPTION DECLINED)"

 

 

You're right about one thing though....it'll never happen in the NBA, because IT ALREADY EXIST!!!
https://www.spotrac.com/news/projecting-2022-nba-non-guaranteed-contracts-1508/

 

 

Ok I stand corrected on the nba. So what does team option or player options have to do with a guaranteed non guaranteed contract? So if a player signs for 10 years with an extra option for 1 year player or team it’s irrelevant and doesn’t even affect his 10 years? So if you say add team option for nhl contracts you don’t think the players are going to push for higher cap on their guaranteed years to compensate? The cap is fine the way it is sucks some team have advantage with taxes but bad contracts or player declining over the contract or doesn’t live up to it is the teams problem. They take a gamble they lose. No one held a gun to their head to give out those contracts. Carolina seems to be doing just fine not giving out long term contracts to players in their late 20s just like they ain’t planning on keeping pesce beyond the season most likely. Most teams have bad contracts some are worse than others most of those teams manage to stay competitive Vancouver couldn’t. It’s not the bad contract that sinks this team it’s the bad team composition that sinks this team. Replace a loui we are a playoff team? Replace a OEL only this is a playoff team? Gimme a break stop making excuse using bad contract as the reason this team sucked for years.

[Comeback_Kings]

Hope we never see lockdown/strike action again.  The current nhl salary cap structure has worked well for the most part apart from the cap not going up in recent years and gm's not planning for or doing enough with that scenario and gm's just signing some dumb contracts. 

 

Allvin showed if you don't like the contract, best to trade the player (Horvat).  That said, he could have done better with the Boeser contract.