Kevin Bieksa you are really...

[CANUCKLELION]

Are you talking about the same Alberts who Sexton blew right by last night. He didn't even have to make a move he simply skated past him and Alberts had a head start. I love your posts, whenever you and Tatoes come on here, the guys and I at work get a good laugh. Then they laugh at the stupidity of some of the Canucks fans. Saying he is not an NHL dman is simply stupidity at its best.

Nope, I was talking about the play Alberts caught Selanne on a partial breakaway and stopped him with a diving poke check, a few plays prior to that was when Selanne blew by Bieksa and set up a goal.

Nice try but if Albert's took the costly and untimely slashing penalty that Bieksa took, he wouldn't even be dressing for the next game, why do you give him a free pass?

[Wh!stler R!der]

<br />Nope, I was  talking about the play Alberts caught Selanne on a partial breakaway and stopped him with a diving poke check, a few plays prior to that was when Selanne blew by Bieksa and set up a goal.<br /><br />Nice try but if Albert's took the costly and untimely slashing penalty  that Bieksa took, he wouldn't even be dressing for the next game, why do you give him a free pass?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Good point, AA had a gread play last night, while Beiska took a penalty that cost us a goal. At least Juice wasn't a minus player as he always is at the end of the season(he is a career -19 btw) but if you scratch him that devalues him as a trade assest for when (if) salo comes back.

[Slegr]

Kevin Bieksa is a shadow of his former self.

He doesn't stick up for his teammates any more.

When was the last time he dropped the gloves?

He plays with no confidence.

Kevin Bieksa

is

the

smoke

monster.

[Erik Karlsson]

hahaha smoke monster, wtf slegr

[Sanford]

Haha Smoke Monster???

[malHOEtra]

I don't see what Bieksa would get us that would be of more value

[Buttock]

I don't see what Bieksa would get us that would be of more value

How about the cap space to put Sami Salo back on the active roster.

[لني]

How about the cap space to put Sami Salo back on the active roster.

That will be decided when the time comes.

It may be a wise move to move Bieksa and make space for Salo. Or it may not lest Salo gets yet another injury at an inopportine time such as a cup run.

[Buttock]

That will be decided when the time comes.

It may be a wise move to move Bieksa and make space for Salo. Or it may not lest Salo gets yet another injury at an inopportine time such as a cup run.

I really don't see us waiving our best defenseman just because he might get injured again. This defense misses Sami Salo something fierce. He may well get injured again. I honestly do believe we won't miss Bieksa at all though. Oh, he has an "A," so what. Does anyone honestly think Salo isn't getting an A when he comes back? Guess whose sweater he's taking it from.

You need look no further than last year, when Rome played many games during Bieksa's absence and did fairly well. Our defense got noticeably worse from the very game Bieksa returned. Some of us have been saying this for years: we would almost be better off just dressing five defensemen.

Oh yeah. He's that bad, Lonny.

Honestly, between Hamhuis, Ballard, Alberts and Ehrhoff, what does Bieksa provide for us that we still need? Quoting myself from earlier: it would be different if this were three years ago and our best options on the point were Ohlund, Krajicek and Morrison.

I honestly believe this is the reason MG went out and got Ballard. So he could ship out Bieksa. His points have been replaced. His toughness has been replaced. And when everyone is healthy his salary has been replaced as well.

And don't give me the "AV knows better than you, do you have a Jack Adams?" crap. That's a logic fail. Coaches make bad decisions all the time and are fired all the time, and new coaches come in and do things very differently all the time.

[Trippbe]

When has Kevin Bieksa EVER been projected to be a superstar???

He can't even pressure the puck carrier without overcommitting. I'm sorry, but NHL defensemen need to be able to be able to have a middle ground between collapsing and giving up the blueline, or going "all in." And that is a big problem with Kevin's game is he goes "all in" way, way too often. He gets a lot of takeaways that way. He also takes himself out of position a lot that way.

How quickly we forget. Superstar may have been an ambitious label, but his course for sure was plotted to be that of a strong top four offensive defensemen. An offensive defensemen who plays with grit, something that is highly valued in today's NHL.

He does go "all in" far too off. Like you said, he gets a lot of take aways that way, but he by far gives up far more genuine goal scoring opportunities than he gains that way. That is the weak spot of his game. Other than that, and perhaps a tendency to panic and get twitchy when the pucks stuck somewhere around his skates not by his design, he is a pretty dynamic defender. Perhaps with the mentor of an intelligent defender (Did someone say Hamhuis? Gee, someone in the management might have a plan), Bieksa can learn to emulate the smart decision making and fill the gaping hole in his game. He'd make an amazing asset if he could, especially at around 3m. (fair guesstimate for next years contract, no?)

on a side note, look around the league, get a feel for how valuable offensive defensemen are right now.

[لني]

Long winded response with lots of irrelevant statements.

I'm not too concerned about saying AV is a Jack Adams winner and you're not. It pretty self evident.

And yes you are correct that coaches make mistakes all the time, even the best ones. But they don't make nearly as many mistakes as the armchair coaches and GMs do.

Is the defense missing Salo somethig fierce? No not really.

D has been fine it's been our inability to capitalize on scoring chances in the Panthers game that cost us. Laregly due to a 2nd line that hasn't really got going. The D helped create a lot of those chances.

The issue of whether Salo gets injured again is an issue. A D on the IR is of no use to the team and unless you can point out who would fill bieksas role better then please do. And no Rome is not the answer. He may have played alright in you mind for the few games he did play but over the stretch is a whole different ball game.

Like I've said before I have zero issues with trading Bieksa or any Canuck for that matter, as king as it benefits the nucks.

I just don't have any emotional attachment to the players good or bad. My emotional health is not dependent who is dressed in a nucks jersey.

The Obrien issue is a case in point. Obrien is a waste. Not because he's an AHLer or anything but because his skills are mediocre but his attitude is crap. MG parlayed that perfectly into a player who has a lot more upside. MG took a player who had topped out and had repeatedly become a distraction to the team as well as himself and gt a younger player who has SCF experience and who most likely wasn't given the chance to develop properly. Time will tell.

Even with that people were still up in arms about "losing" such an "asset".

Like said Gillis and Co will have to make that decisin when the time comes. That time hasn't come so for now Bieksa is a non issue. At least for those of us who aren't emotionally attached to some sort of outcome.

I really don't see us waiving our best defenseman just because he might get injured again. This defense misses Sami Salo something fierce. He may well get injured again. I honestly do believe we won't miss Bieksa at all though. Oh, he has an "A," so what. Does anyone honestly think Salo isn't getting an A when he comes back? Guess whose sweater he's taking it from.

You need look no further than last year, when Rome played many games during Bieksa's absence and did fairly well. Our defense got noticeably worse from the very game Bieksa returned. Some of us have been saying this for years: we would almost be better off just dressing five defensemen.

Oh yeah. He's that bad, Lonny.

Honestly, between Hamhuis, Ballard, Alberts and Ehrhoff, what does Bieksa provide for us that we still need? Quoting myself from earlier: it would be different if this were three years ago and our best options on the point were Ohlund, Krajicek and Morrison.

I honestly believe this is the reason MG went out and got Ballard. So he could ship out Bieksa. His points have been replaced. His toughness has been replaced. And when everyone is healthy his salary has been replaced as well.

And don't give me the "AV knows better than you, do you have a Jack Adams?" crap. That's a logic fail. Coaches make bad decisions all the time and are fired all the time, and new coaches come in and do things very differently all the time.

[Barry_Wilkins]

Long winded response with lots of irrelevant statements.

I'm not too concerned about saying AV is a Jack Adams winner and you're not. It pretty self evident.

And yes you are correct that coaches make mistakes all the time, even the best ones. But they don't make nearly as many mistakes as the armchair coaches and GMs do.

Is the defense missing Salo somethig fierce? No not really.

D has been fine it's been our inability to capitalize on scoring chances in the Panthers game that cost us. Laregly due to a 2nd line that hasn't really got going. The D helped create a lot of those chances.

The issue of whether Salo gets injured again is an issue. A D on the IR is of no use to the team and unless you can point out who would fill bieksas role better then please do. And no Rome is not the answer. He may have played alright in you mind for the few games he did play but over the stretch is a whole different ball game.

Like I've said before I have zero issues with trading Bieksa or any Canuck for that matter, as king as it benefits the nucks.

I just don't have any emotional attachment to the players good or bad. My emotional health is not dependent who is dressed in a nucks jersey.

The Obrien issue is a case in point. Obrien is a waste. Not because he's an AHLer or anything but because his skills are mediocre but his attitude is crap. MG parlayed that perfectly into a player who has a lot more upside. MG took a player who had topped out and had repeatedly become a distraction to the team as well as himself and gt a younger player who has SCF experience and who most likely wasn't given the chance to develop properly. Time will tell.

Even with that people were still up in arms about "losing" such an "asset".

Like said Gillis and Co will have to make that decisin when the time comes. That time hasn't come so for now Bieksa is a non issue. At least for those of us who aren't emotionally attached to some sort of outcome.

The "shut up, you're an armchair GM" argument is facile and silly. We're all armchair GMs here, including you. Just because someone has the title of manager or coach doesn't mean they get an automatic pass on every single thing they do. Remember Jack Gordon? And the stellar career of Bill LaForge? I happen to like AV, but I don't blindly bow down to his every decision as if it were a case of Father Knows Best. Playing Bieksa big minutes is only excusable if he -- along with management strategy -- is showcasing him for the trade that is inevitable when Salo is healthy.

The defense isn't missing Salo? You can confidently say that after 3 games? When Salo is in the lineup, and when we don't have other injuries to the D, the Canucks' back end is smooth, effective, and panic-free, even to a degree with Bieksa in it, which goes to show what a steadying influence Salo has been since his decade-long tenure here.

The issue of Salo getting hurt or not is hilarious coming from a Bieksa supporter. Take a look at the games played scenario for both of them the past few years. Yeah, yeah, poor Bieksa's injuries were freakish in nature. (Not all of them, either, btw.) So what? Salo got hit in the face by an Edler shot. Hey, Sopel stepped on a cracker! (Ha) Sh!t happens. The fact is that Salo's played 60 + games a year for us consistently. Not the rock of Gibralter, but not a fixture at the infirmary, either.

Rome played capably for quite a while towards our stretch run last year, a far different scenario than your skewed, glib drive-by of "all right in a few games". What the Canucks need in their bottom pairing is precisely a player like Rome or Alberts, or before, them, O'Brien-- limited offense, but steady with few blunders, and most importantly, a low cap hit.

Powerhouse teams ride their best players -- it's never been winning by committee. Especially the D men, who routinely get 25 + minutes a night. It's great during the season to pare the minutes down somewhat for playoff preservation, but when the serious games start, and using the current line-up as reality then, I'd want Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Ehrhoff to be logging over 20 minutes a game, with Bieksa a distant 5th in TOI. Yeah, a different decision than AV. But a lot of armchair GMs can think for themselves without resorting to the logical fallacy of the "call to authority".

The time may not seem "to have come" yet regarding a decision to you, but do you really think that Gillis is still pondering what to do when Salo's healthy? If so, I'd think he was a boob, not only because the answer is obvious, but because he would be showing classic reactive behaviour. A GM has to be pro-active, with a plan, and working on making it happen ahead of time, if necessary. When Salo is healthy, league rules stipulate that we have to immediately be cap compliant. Trading Boo Boo then is obviously dealing from a position of futility, not just weakness. I'm sure he's been bending the ear of a lot of GMs, and it's interesting to speculate on what the offers (if any) have been for this defenseless defenseman. I've maintained for a long time that's it's not a matter of who we get for Bieksa, that often a trade is valuable for the simple fact of who you lose. Unfortunately, rival GMs seem to be more intelligent these days, but all it takes is one of them to overpay by sending us a 2nd round draft pick and a prospect.

[لني]

Lol

I guess if what you say claims to be true you can claim to be right.

The "shut up, you're an armchair GM" argument is facile and silly. We're all armchair GMs here, including you. Just because someone has the title of manager or coach doesn't mean they get an automatic pass on every single thing they do. Remember Jack Gordon? And the stellar career of Bill LaForge? I happen to like AV, but I don't blindly bow down to his every decision as if it were a case of Father Knows Best. Playing Bieksa big minutes is only excusable if he -- along with management strategy -- is showcasing him for the trade that is inevitable when Salo is healthy.

The defense isn't missing Salo? You can confidently say that after 3 games? When Salo is in the lineup, and when we don't have other injuries to the D, the Canucks' back end is smooth, effective, and panic-free, even to a degree with Bieksa in it, which goes to show what a steadying influence Salo has been since his decade-long tenure here.

The issue of Salo getting hurt or not is hilarious coming from a Bieksa supporter. Take a look at the games played scenario for both of them the past few years. Yeah, yeah, poor Bieksa's injuries were freakish in nature. (Not all of them, either, btw.) So what? Salo got hit in the face by an Edler shot. Hey, Sopel stepped on a cracker! (Ha) Sh!t happens. The fact is that Salo's played 60 + games a year for us consistently. Not the rock of Gibralter, but not a fixture at the infirmary, either.

Rome played capably for quite a while towards our stretch run last year, a far different scenario than your skewed, glib drive-by of "all right in a few games". What the Canucks need in their bottom pairing is precisely a player like Rome or Alberts, or before, them, O'Brien-- limited offense, but steady with few blunders, and most importantly, a low cap hit.

Powerhouse teams ride their best players -- it's never been winning by committee. Especially the D men, who routinely get 25 + minutes a night. It's great during the season to pare the minutes down somewhat for playoff preservation, but when the serious games start, and using the current line-up as reality then, I'd want Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Ehrhoff to be logging over 20 minutes a game, with Bieksa a distant 5th in TOI. Yeah, a different decision than AV. But a lot of armchair GMs can think for themselves without resorting to the logical fallacy of the "call to authority".

The time may not seem "to have come" yet regarding a decision to you, but do you really think that Gillis is still pondering what to do when Salo's healthy? If so, I'd think he was a boob, not only because the answer is obvious, but because he would be showing classic reactive behaviour. A GM has to be pro-active, with a plan, and working on making it happen ahead of time, if necessary. When Salo is healthy, league rules stipulate that we have to immediately be cap compliant. Trading Boo Boo then is obviously dealing from a position of futility, not just weakness. I'm sure he's been bending the ear of a lot of GMs, and it's interesting to speculate on what the offers (if any) have been for this defenseless defenseman. I've maintained for a long time that's it's not a matter of who we get for Bieksa, that often a trade is valuable for the simple fact of who you lose. Unfortunately, rival GMs seem to be more intelligent these days, but all it takes is one of them to overpay by sending us a 2nd round draft pick and a prospect.

[vannuck1]

Bieksa is on his way out period its a cap world and its just about high noon trade or waivers it doesn't matter to me hmmmmm i think that was a song or maybe a movie

[vannuck1]

Who thought we would get anything for the OBrian trade, hense Parent who would of thunk it.

[RUPERTKBD]

That's not true at all, there are both Bieksa lovers and Bieksa haters and they both have blinders on for him. There are a lot of haters in this thread that will knit pick everything he does. But there are also a lot of lovers in this thread that brushes off his mistakes, no matter how big they are.

Bieksa has made mistakes all 3 games, but he has made some really good plays all 3 games. The lovers will not say he has made mistakes or they brush off his mistakes saying "So and so made this mistake so why not rag on him" Or "Sure he made that mistake but he also did this and this and this". While the haters will just point out his mistakes, lots of them are little mistakes that change absolutely nothing and aren't a big deal.

So yes, there is Bieksa haters and lovers.

Then there are those of us who realize he has flaws in his game, but don't believe that every goal scored against is his fault just because he happened to be on the ice.

There are definitely people who can't seem to see what's wrong with the way this guy plays defense. His gap control is just awful, he can't defend the crease to save his life, and he often seems completely unaware - of where his teammates are, where the opposing players are, where the puck is, or worst of all, whether it's a good idea to take an offensive chance at any particular point in the game (like, when we're up by a goal). He telegraphs everything he does worse than anybody else on the team. These aspects of his game are definitely below NHL caliber. He also is not a good shooter at all - his shooting percentage is consistently among the worst on the team, as is his ratio of missed shots to shots on goal. He needs his teammates to make everything easy for him. He is not really good at making a breakout pass, though he can make a tape to tape pass, he will often put the puck to where he thinks somebody will be, instead of putting it on somebody's stick, and he never seems to want to just make the easy first pass. No vision or awareness at all. He often needs his partner to throw a pick for him when he goes back to collect the puck, as Tatoes mentioned, all of this having a draining effect on the whole team. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Kind of amazing that an NHL GM and his coaching staff have failed to see so many deficiencies that are so obvious to you.

[sampy]

Then there are those of us who realize he has flaws in his game, but don't believe that every goal scored against is his fault just because he happened to be on the ice.

Kind of amazing that an NHL GM and his coaching staff have failed to see so many deficiencies that are so obvious to you.

+1 I agree nobody has said Bieksa is the next Niedermayer, he's just not as bad as some people like Buttock post and I'd rather keep our depth. It seems appropriate that his sign in name is Buttock as he acts like an a@@.

[canuckrelevantname]

I just hope he finds his game fast. As annoying as it is to watch him compromise our ability to win (through some of his bad penalties), Captain Henrik has faith and that is good enough for me.

There is a lot of pressure for him to preform (and rightfully so), and I have faith that he will prove worthy.

Just my opinion. (ps. this is my first post--so hello CDC world, it's nice to be here)

[SuperReverb2]

Then there are those of us who realize he has flaws in his game, but don't believe that every goal scored against is his fault just because he happened to be on the ice.

True, but on the go ahead goal against the Ducks he looked terrible and did absolutely NOTHING to prevent that goal. Unless of course you think running around like a chicken with your head cut off looking for god knows what is what the Canucks are paying him to do? I think his bigger problem are the poor decisions he makes regarding penalties. Of late he has taken some really bonehead penalties that have cost the Canucks dearly in goals against and missed opportunities because they are (obviously) playing shorthanded in critical situations. Other players, (SOB and Alberts come to mind here) have ridden the pine or the press box for the same type of stupid penalties, yet Bieksa seems to get rewarded for such behaviour with a top line pairing and huge ice time minutes. (??)

Kind of amazing that an NHL GM and his coaching staff have failed to see so many deficiencies that are so obvious to you.

I'm pretty sure Gillis is VERY aware of his deficiencies and is waiting to see what happens with Salo and his projected return. I'm also pretty sure that had Salo not been injured that Bielsa would have been traded this past summer. I don't think Bieksa was in the Canucks plans this year and I think the Salo injury forced them to use him when they didn't really want to. Hopefully that will soon be rectified as he has shown absolutely no improvement over his poor season last year.

[hank&dan]

Kevin Bieksa is a shadow of his former self.

He doesn't stick up for his teammates any more.

When was the last time he dropped the gloves?

He plays with no confidence.

Kevin Bieksa

is

the

smoke

monster.

Where's the +1 when you need it

awesome post