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Kevin Bieksa you are really...


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#5221 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:45 AM

Another out-of-the box suggestion...

When Salo is healthy...place him on waivers. NYI picks him up and plays him until Trade Deadline. At Trade Deadline...trade a 2nd round pick for Salo. Trade Deadline is Feb 28th. There will be 19 games remaining for the Canucks. Salo's contract is worth only $810k ($3.5M/82x19=$0.81M) for 19 games. Waive Parent ($900k) and add Salo back into the lineup.

Not sure if this can work...needs the resident CDC capologist to take a look.
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#5222 hank&dan

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:03 AM

Another out-of-the box suggestion...

When Salo is healthy...place him on waivers. NYI picks him up and plays him until Trade Deadline. At Trade Deadline...trade a 2nd round pick for Salo. Trade Deadline is Feb 28th. There will be 19 games remaining for the Canucks. Salo's contract is worth only $810k ($3.5M/82x19=$0.81M) for 19 games. Waive Parent ($900k) and add Salo back into the lineup.

Not sure if this can work...needs the resident CDC capologist to take a look.



If only it were that easy...
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View PostBarry_Wilkins, on 13 December 2010 - 08:10 PM, said:

But as usual, Bieksa makes the routine defensive play a hair-raising adventure.


#5223 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:05 AM

If only it were that easy...

I laughed so hard at this I farted.

Christ I hope it's a fart.
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#5224 CANUCKLELION

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:18 AM

Me too Man - It is almost inevitable that KB is going to get moved, but as you say the ppl that call him a bum don't know what they are talking about.

They live inside a bubble where reason and common sense cannot enter, only stubbornness and negativity can.

Its absolutley asinine!!


Frankly if Bxa was a mil /yr player this thread would not have even made it to 3 pages and would have been done months ago, where there is smoke there is fire.
The guy is a bum.
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#5225 لني

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:22 AM

I laughed so hard at this I farted.

Christ I hope it's a fart.

I've been walking the wire on this the last few days.

This post almost smelled disaster for me.
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View Postnhlconspiracy, on 21 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.

Logic at its finest.

#5226 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:49 AM

and in your opinion how can that be done? Spitball some idears with me on this.


There are really only a couple of ways it can be done, imo:

1. Salo does not return until the end of the season. Considering he is already starting to skate, how likely is that scenario?

2. Another dman, even Bieksa himself, gets injured and is out until the playoffs. That is a variable that cannot be relied upon though.

Other than that, Bieksa is the best choice to go when it comes time to shed salary for Salo to return. I see no other solution that is easier and better than trading Bieksa for the reasons I have suggested before. To summarize:

1. Trading Edler (best overall D with the most potential) or Hamhuis (NTC) should not even be on the table.
2. Waiving Salo (NTC) is disrespectful to him and a huge waste of an asset when Bieksa could be traded for a return of some kind.
3. Trading Ehrhoff amounts to ditching a true offensive threat and PP quarterback.
4. Trading Ballard (limited NTC) means a loss of the punishing hitting and shot blocking this team always seems to lack in the playoffs. Plus, he is showing there is some offensive upside there as well. He also has a limited NTC as I said, limiting the available trade options.
5. Samuelsson + someone else not only depletes depth but there is really no decent replacement available for what Sammy brings. Whether he plays on the 2nd or 3rd line, I see no one in the system or who could fit in cap wise from a trade that would be guaranteed to bring what Sammy does. Especially the proven ability to step up in the playoffs. A similar argument about replacements could be put forward for any other forward (Raymond, Torres, etc.). Who replaces them?
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#5227 CANUCKLELION

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:50 AM

I laughed so hard at this I farted.

Christ I hope it's a fart.


Just give it a wipe and call it a Bieksa.lol
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#5228 Zach Morris

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:26 AM

Just give it a wipe and call it a Bieksa.lol


LOL

U can't leave it alone.

I bet you actually like Bieksa, and you are just trying to piss us all off. Well its working hahahaha
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#5229 The Big Luongo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 12:12 PM

Frankly if Bxa was a mil /yr player this thread would not have even made it to 3 pages and would have been done months ago, where there is smoke there is fire.
The guy is a bum.


Your pathetic dude get a life!

- Bieksa is an assistant captain on a Stanley Cup contending team given to him by one off the classiest players to ever play the game.
- Bieksa is respected by great Canadian fans and true canuck fans that know the game when they see it(unlike you)
- Bieksa is well respected and appreciated by teammates that professionals and know the game more then any computer geek who is obsessed with hating someone and makes a fool of himself constantly.
- Bieksa is respected and appreciated by the GM and coaches of a top elite organization who are better educated then anyone to recognize talent and know what they are doing.
- Bieksa makes lot's of deserved money being a world class athlete despite brutal injuries working his a$$ off to comeback doing what he loves to do and what he has worked at all his life to become good at and is seen as a very solid teammate and player in this league.

I have a lot of praise to a warrior like Bieksa and feel we are lucky to have such a great player who loves playing for this city, for his teammates and wants to win more then anyone.

Even if trading Bieksa is the only move we can make to stay within the cap and i hope this doesn't happen i wish nothing but the best for Bieksa in the future.

Bieksa has more then earned my respect over the years, he has been great and given his all to this organization and the city of Vancouver.

Your a guy who sits on the computer like a loser ranting and raving making stuff up if it fits your foolish cause lol

Your really the useless bum definitely not Bieksa.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 14 December 2010 - 12:25 PM.

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#5230 RogersArena

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 12:50 PM

Who would rather see Hamhuis-Edler out there against teams top players like a Stamkos, Crosby ect.? If you had the chance to keep top players off the score sheet, you would want that as a coach, no?

I just don't get why AV continues to put Hamhuis-Bieksa out there when he knows Bieksa can't handle top players in the game. If Bieksa and AV want trade rumours involving him to stop then put him out against lower level players. I think most sane coaches would put two of their best D man out against a teams best players. It's only logical right? Thats what makes most fans blood boil, including mine. The fact that Bieksa plays against a teams top players when he obviously can not handle it.

Hamhuis-Edler
Ballard-Ehrhoff
Bieksa-Alberts

and PP can be: Edler-Ehrhoff (unit 1) and Hamhuis-Ballard (unit 2)
PK: Hamhuis-Edler, Bieksa/Alberts-Ballard because I personally don't think Ehrhoff can be a great PKer.

Who doesn't think that seems better?


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#5231 The Big Luongo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:00 PM

Who would rather see Hamhuis-Edler out there against teams top players like a Stamkos, Crosby ect.? If you had the chance to keep top players off the score sheet, you would want that as a coach, no?

I just don't get why AV continues to put Hamhuis-Bieksa out there when he knows Bieksa can't handle top players in the game. If Bieksa and AV want trade rumours involving him to stop then put him out against lower level players. I think most sane coaches would put two of their best D man out against a teams best players. It's only logical right? Thats what makes most fans blood boil, including mine. The fact that Bieksa plays against a teams top players when he obviously can not handle it.

Hamhuis-Edler
Ballard-Ehrhoff
Bieksa-Alberts

and PP can be: Edler-Ehrhoff (unit 1) and Hamhuis-Ballard (unit 2)
PK: Hamhuis-Edler, Bieksa/Alberts-Ballard because I personally don't think Ehrhoff can be a great PKer.

Who doesn't think that seems better?


I hate to break it to you but Edler is slow footed and gets caught out of position plenty he has been on the ice for his fair share of goals against that he could have done better on.

Hamhuis great shutdown dman yes Edler not so sure about that.

Edler still looks very bad, ordinary and green sometimes unfortunately but has been a bit better this year at least then in the past.
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#5232 RogersArena

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:05 PM

I hate to break it to you but Edler is slow footed and gets caught out of position plenty he has been on the ice for his fair share of goals against that he could have done better on.

Hamhuis great shutdown dman yes Edler not so sure about that.

Edler still looks very bad, ordinary and green sometimes unfortunately but has been a bit better this year at least then in the past.


Well I haven't been watching what you have.... I really don't understand how you could come to those conclusions about Edlers play recently. If you honestly think that, then i'll tell you that Edler would benefit from playing with Hamhuis even though I don't think Edlers been bad at all.
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#5233 T.TANTI

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:08 PM

I know this has probabaly been beaten to death but here's my take on the Stamkos setup to Purcell on Saturday night.

-Tampa's defence turned over the puck to Bxa at our blueline. He seemed to panic a bit as Tampa's forwards started applying pressure. Kev imo threw a suicide pass up the middle to Torres.

-He then seemed to be watching his pass and gave up inside position to Stamkos. I'm not sure why or how Bxa ended up on the outside while Stamkos was cutting up the middle but he was left out of position, allowing Stammer to race in and negate the icing.

-He then did a pretty good job getting back into position but failed to contain his man (we've all seen the end result).

Imo this play started with Bxa and ended with Bxa. Yes, Hansen could have taken the man out front or Hamuis could have cut the centering pass off or Schneids could have made a big save but at the end of the day this one was on Kev. He looked pretty disinterested that game. Imo he was giving up the blueline way to easy to players of that calibre.
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#5234 The Big Luongo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:10 PM

Edler has lost his man out front many times usually due to lack of strength and willingness to battle that cost us or and he has likely had about 8 goals bounce off him into our own net and continues to be very sloppy at keeping pucks in the offensive zone on the PP killing several opportunities.

I guess because its not Bieksa most don't notice these things.
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#5235 The Big Luongo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:16 PM

I know this has probabaly been beaten to death but here's my take on the Stamkos setup to Purcell on Saturday night.

-Tampa's defence turned over the puck to Bxa at our blueline. He seemed to panic a bit as Tampa's forwards started applying pressure. Kev imo threw a suicide pass up the middle to Torres.

-He then seemed to be watching his pass and gave up inside position to Stamkos. I'm not sure why or how Bxa ended up on the outside while Stamkos was cutting up the middle but he was left out of position, allowing Stammer to race in and negate the icing.

-He then did a pretty good job getting back into position but failed to contain his man (we've all seen the end result).

Imo this play started with Bxa and ended with Bxa. Yes, Hansen could have taken the man out front or Hamuis could have cut the centering pass off or Schneids could have made a big save but at the end of the day this one was on Kev. He looked pretty disinterested that game. Imo he was giving up the blueline way to easy to players of that calibre.


Thats one goal why do people keep harping on this its foolish!

I have seen all dmen make mistakes that could be broken down and they would all look bad.

He got caught out of position against one of the leagues best in Stamkos who has done this to several good dmen in the league numerous times.

If a forward picks the man up in front on that play that goal doesn't happen and as a matter of fact i notice Bieksa covering another teammates mistakes several times every game by helping them out.

To pick this one little error is laughable
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#5236 T.TANTI

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:27 PM

Thats one goal why do people keep harping on this its foolish!

I have seen all dmen make mistakes that could be broken down and they would all look bad.

He got caught out of position against one of the leagues best in Stamkos who has done this to several good dmen in the league numerous times.

If a forward picks the man up in front on that play that goal doesn't happen and as a matter of fact i notice Bieksa covering another teammates mistakes several times every game by helping them out.

To pick this one little error is laughable


I'm not a "Bieksa hater" but I have been lurking in this thread for a while(I find all the mud slinging quite entertaining) and have seen numerous examples of poor plays by Kev. So I don't see why this one example of many is laughable I am starting to get concerned it is a trend. I think a lot of the "Bieksa fan boys" need to take a closer look at his current play then his play three years ago or his potential back then. On the flip side the "Bieksa hatersČ should stop looking at his salary and the fact that he may be the most likely trading chip and keep there eyes open to some of the good things he brings to this team ie.grit.

K have at er Ill continue to just watch from a distance :ph34r:
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#5237 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:34 PM

Why you keep trying to lump me in with people who simply want him gone for the sake of it is beyond me. There are valid reasons he is (and should be) the likely choice to go if and when the time comes.

Sorry Wallstreet. Did you not say that the team would be better defensively once Bieksa is gone? I was pretty sure you did. That's why you were lumped in with the trolls....

Frankly if Bxa was a mil /yr player this thread would not have even made it to 3 pages and would have been done months ago, where there is smoke there is fire.
The guy is a bum.

No. Where there is smoke, there are people who have been smoking.....
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#5238 CANUCKLELION

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:07 PM

Your pathetic dude get a life!

- Bieksa is an assistant captain on a Stanley Cup contending team given to him by one off the classiest players to ever play the game.
- Bieksa is respected by great Canadian fans and true canuck fans that know the game when they see it(unlike you)
- Bieksa is well respected and appreciated by teammates that professionals and know the game more then any computer geek who is obsessed with hating someone and makes a fool of himself constantly.
- Bieksa is respected and appreciated by the GM and coaches of a top elite organization who are better educated then anyone to recognize talent and know what they are doing.
- Bieksa makes lot's of deserved money being a world class athlete despite brutal injuries working his a$ off to comeback doing what he loves to do and what he has worked at all his life to become good at and is seen as a very solid teammate and player in this league.

I have a lot of praise to a warrior like Bieksa and feel we are lucky to have such a great player who loves playing for this city, for his teammates and wants to win more then anyone.

Even if trading Bieksa is the only move we can make to stay within the cap and i hope this doesn't happen i wish nothing but the best for Bieksa in the future.

Bieksa has more then earned my respect over the years, he has been great and given his all to this organization and the city of Vancouver.

Your a guy who sits on the computer like a loser ranting and raving making stuff up if it fits your foolish cause lol

Your really the useless bum definitely not Bieksa.



Funny I believe you are that guy, your post looks and reads like a rant, mine are quite terse by comparison. I also do not believe Bieksa commands 1/10th as much respect as you suggest as a hockey player. I would say that for his cap no other team wants him and the Nuck's have been stuck with him this year, short of waiving him.

Also you shouldn't be lacing your posts with personal insults, it just reinforces the fact you don't have a clue about what it takes to win.

To Bieksa's credit, he seems willing to pay the price to win, it is just too bad his talent bank is bankrupt. lol


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#5239 hank&dan

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:55 PM

Edler has lost his man out front many times usually due to lack of strength and willingness to battle that cost us or and he has likely had about 8 goals bounce off him into our own net and continues to be very sloppy at keeping pucks in the offensive zone on the PP killing several opportunities.

I guess because its not Bieksa most don't notice these things.



You are the biggest moron to post on these boards.

Look at these stats and re-evaluate.

Bieksa Team goals against: 28 (most on team) Bieksa Team goals for: 29 Overal goals for VS goals against: +1

Edler Team goals against: 25 Edler Team goals for: 44 Overal goals for VS goals against: +19


Elder sure must cost the nucks a lot of wins...

Edited by hank&dan, 14 December 2010 - 02:55 PM.

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View PostBarry_Wilkins, on 13 December 2010 - 08:10 PM, said:

But as usual, Bieksa makes the routine defensive play a hair-raising adventure.


#5240 Sharpshooter

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:57 PM

You are the biggest moron to post on these boards.

Look at these stats and re-evaluate.

Bieksa Team goals against: 28 (most on team) Bieksa Team goals for: 29 Overal goals for VS goals against: +1

Edler Team goals against: 25 Edler Team goals for: 44 Overal goals for VS goals against: +19


Elder sure must cost the nucks a lot of wins...


Oh the ironing.....

It tastes like burning......don't it Ralphie?
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#5241 hank&dan

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:59 PM

Your pathetic dude get a life!

- Bieksa is an assistant captain on a Stanley Cup contending team given to him by one off the classiest players to ever play the game.
- Bieksa is respected by great Canadian fans and true canuck fans that know the game when they see it(unlike you)
- Bieksa is well respected and appreciated by teammates that professionals and know the game more then any computer geek who is obsessed with hating someone and makes a fool of himself constantly.
- Bieksa is respected and appreciated by the GM and coaches of a top elite organization who are better educated then anyone to recognize talent and know what they are doing.
- Bieksa makes lot's of deserved money being a world class athlete despite brutal injuries working his a$$ off to comeback doing what he loves to do and what he has worked at all his life to become good at and is seen as a very solid teammate and player in this league.

I have a lot of praise to a warrior like Bieksa and feel we are lucky to have such a great player who loves playing for this city, for his teammates and wants to win more then anyone.

Even if trading Bieksa is the only move we can make to stay within the cap and i hope this doesn't happen i wish nothing but the best for Bieksa in the future.

Bieksa has more then earned my respect over the years, he has been great and given his all to this organization and the city of Vancouver.

Your a guy who sits on the computer like a loser ranting and raving making stuff up if it fits your foolish cause lol

Your really the useless bum definitely not Bieksa.



You preach like Don Cherry. If your as old as Grapes I'll give you a pass on being this ignorant..
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View PostBarry_Wilkins, on 13 December 2010 - 08:10 PM, said:

But as usual, Bieksa makes the routine defensive play a hair-raising adventure.


#5242 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:00 PM

Edler has lost his man out front many times usually due to lack of strength and willingness to battle that cost us or and he has likely had about 8 goals bounce off him into our own net and continues to be very sloppy at keeping pucks in the offensive zone on the PP killing several opportunities.



HATER HATER HATER!!


GO :canucks: !!!!!!
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#5243 sampy

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:03 PM

You preach like Don Cherry. If your as old as Grapes I'll give you a pass on being this ignorant..

Everyone knows that you're the real ignorant blind one on here
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#5244 hank&dan

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

Oh the ironing.....

It tastes like burning......don't it Ralphie?



As usual no rebuttal to stats or facts. No matter how many hours a day you waist insulting everyone who posts a negaive stat about Bieksa, he won't let you sniff his jockstrap. Your dungeons and dragons avatar says it all. All meaning you don't go ouside, you're in your moms basement and probably eating a couple of pizza pops as we speak. Bieksa appreciates your support! As long as you keep telling yourself he does...
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View PostBarry_Wilkins, on 13 December 2010 - 08:10 PM, said:

But as usual, Bieksa makes the routine defensive play a hair-raising adventure.


#5245 vwnuck

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:15 PM

The new and improved defensive stalwart Kevin Bieksa! Since he can't put up points any more, time to change the arguement, of course. And don't look now, but in his 5 games, C Schneider is creeping up on #3 in the scoring turtle derby.

Tampa goal #2: Bieksa falls down unhindered like an invalid in front of Schneider, taking our goalie's skates out. Brett Clark: "Yikes! Where'd that empty net come from? Thank you, Big Kevin!"

Tampa goal #4: Bieksa decides to body check the glass, conveniently allowing Stamkos to have the time to make a nice pass to an open man in the slot.

Hey, but everyone makes mistakes. Boom Boom'll get 'em next game!



actually, you are only have right...

goal 2 bieksa is hacked down, watch the replay tampa player hacks his back skate out from under him.... not really his fault

goal 3 ya he missed his check but, no one seems to have noticed the key words there OPEN MAN IN FRONT. so you can blame bieksa all you want for missing the hit... but the real fault is the other d who did not have his check. not bieksa fault...

Edited by vwnuck, 14 December 2010 - 03:18 PM.

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#5246 Canucksboy

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:28 PM

actually, you are only have right...

goal 2 bieksa is hacked down, watch the replay tampa player hacks his back skate out from under him.... not really his fault

goal 3 ya he missed his check but, no one seems to have noticed the key words there OPEN MAN IN FRONT. so you can blame bieksa all you want for missing the hit... but the real fault is the other d who did not have his check. not bieksa fault...


Exactly. Open man in front. Whoever was skating back allowed the open shooter to go in? C'mon..
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#5247 Sharpshooter

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:28 PM

As usual no rebuttal to stats or facts. No matter how many hours a day you waist insulting everyone who posts a negaive stat about Bieksa, he won't let you sniff his jockstrap. Your dungeons and dragons avatar says it all. All meaning you don't go ouside, you're in your moms basement and probably eating a couple of pizza pops as we speak. Bieksa appreciates your support! As long as you keep telling yourself he does...


Don't need to tell myself that he appreciates my support....he's told me himself, in response to me giving him my support, while we chatted while waiting for our luggage at Pearson airport.

And, i'm actually in YOUR mom's basement and she ain't serving up pizza pops!

:bigblush:







They're these little savoury canapes, and they're quite nice, to be honest.
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#5248 The Big Luongo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:33 PM

You are the biggest moron to post on these boards.

Look at these stats and re-evaluate.

Bieksa Team goals against: 28 (most on team) Bieksa Team goals for: 29 Overal goals for VS goals against: +1

Edler Team goals against: 25 Edler Team goals for: 44 Overal goals for VS goals against: +19


Elder sure must cost the nucks a lot of wins...


A very obvious news flash for you!

Edlers #'s would be and should be far above Bieksa's due to the fact that he gets all the 5 on 5 and PP time with the Sedins.

Almost all of Edlers good stats are earned by the Sedins not Edler but don't let that get in the way of yet another foolish post.
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#5249 vwnuck

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:34 PM

There are really only a couple of ways it can be done, imo:

1. Salo does not return until the end of the season. Considering he is already starting to skate, how likely is that scenario?

2. Another dman, even Bieksa himself, gets injured and is out until the playoffs. That is a variable that cannot be relied upon though.

Other than that, Bieksa is the best choice to go when it comes time to shed salary for Salo to return. I see no other solution that is easier and better than trading Bieksa for the reasons I have suggested before. To summarize:

1. Trading Edler (best overall D with the most potential) or Hamhuis (NTC) should not even be on the table.
2. Waiving Salo (NTC) is disrespectful to him and a huge waste of an asset when Bieksa could be traded for a return of some kind.
3. Trading Ehrhoff amounts to ditching a true offensive threat and PP quarterback.
4. Trading Ballard (limited NTC) means a loss of the punishing hitting and shot blocking this team always seems to lack in the playoffs. Plus, he is showing there is some offensive upside there as well. He also has a limited NTC as I said, limiting the available trade options.
5. Samuelsson + someone else not only depletes depth but there is really no decent replacement available for what Sammy brings. Whether he plays on the 2nd or 3rd line, I see no one in the system or who could fit in cap wise from a trade that would be guaranteed to bring what Sammy does. Especially the proven ability to step up in the playoffs. A similar argument about replacements could be put forward for any other forward (Raymond, Torres, etc.). Who replaces them?



damn internet, i just spent 30mins writing back a well thought out reply to this and internet craped out as soon as i pushed save.....

ahhhhh

ok

1. i never thought they would trade allen either.. i thought he had a lot of promise.. so never say never.. but in this case i agree he probably won't go..hamhuis either.

2. agreed salo is either coming back retiring or gets re injured... waiving him is not an option.

3. there is no argument to ehrhoffs offensive upside... but he does show alack of commitment on the defensive end of his game... he is out of position and loses his check quite often... and when the physical play picks up he disappears....so there is a possibility that they would want to replace him if a good offer comes in...

4. i don't think ballard is going anywhere.. his last hand full of games have been pretty good. and we need to have hitting dmen.. so i don't see him going..

5. as much as i like samuelson, i would not be opposed to him going. for the simple fact that tamby has looked good with kes and raymond... and if he starts to trail off i would give glass a chance on the 2nd line.

i could see a trade with ehrhoff and samuelson. which would not really hurt us in the long run... or just a simple trade for bieksa... who knows.. but i don't think we should limit us to one trade and one trade only... mg will do what ever he sees best for the team..

Edited by vwnuck, 14 December 2010 - 03:55 PM.

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#5250 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:35 PM

actually, you are only have right...

goal 2 bieksa is hacked down, watch the replay tampa player hacks his back skate out from under him.... not really his fault

goal 3 ya he missed his check but, no one seems to have noticed the key words there OPEN MAN IN FRONT. so you can blame bieksa all you want for missing the hit... but the real fault is the other d who did not have his check. not bieksa fault...

Actually I pointed out that fact to Barry several pages ago, VW. (It was Dominic Moore, BTW) He didn't have a response then, so I doubt if he does now.
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