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Raymond? Do We Really Want Him?


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#331 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:07 AM

Just watched (and paused) the Raymond "sclaff" (Scots word, I prefer it) and 3 things were obvious.

Firstly, Raymond was coming in at speed.
Secondly, if you freeze the frame, the puck comes off Rine's pad and IS IN THE AIR.
Thirdly, the freeze frame also showed the puck vertical, so it was likely rotating.

Despite all this, people on here would have those who hadn't seen it, think it was an easy tap in. Well it wasn't, it was a 10% likelihood shot. I would say 9 times out of 10 there is not a player in our team who would have scored on that chance.

But hey, it's Raymond so let's not have the facts get in the way of the hate.

By the way if you want to see Kesler miss a similar but easier shot go to 6:40 to go in the 2nd.

"Good question.He has not been traded.He is obviously that bad."

Or more likely given the facts, his game is appreciated by by people who know something about hockey. People like AV and MG.

Edited by Bodee, 22 February 2012 - 09:34 AM.

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#332 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:16 AM

They will dump him if at all possible.

You don't win Stanley Cups with second liners that don't hit,don't score and will not go into the centre of the ice.

It is not all that difficult to grasp.
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#333 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:32 AM

They will dump him if at all possible.

You don't win Stanley Cups with second liners that don't hit,don't score and will not go into the centre of the ice.

It is not all that difficult to grasp.


It is you that finds facts difficult to grasp. Raymond helped the Canucks to the SC final game.............which makes your comment utterly stupid.

They were one game away with an injury beset team. Ironically who is to say Raymond might not have helped us win that game if he wasn't wearing a back brace
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#334 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:44 AM

Sorry,bud.He is gonzo.

If some org will take the salary,that is.

Can't win with him at this point in time.

Window closing and Stanley is calling.
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#335 Viking13

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:58 AM

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It is you that finds facts difficult to grasp. Raymond helped the Canucks to the SC final game.............which makes your comment utterly stupid.

They were one game away with an injury beset team. Ironically who is to say Raymond might not have helped us win that game if he wasn't wearing a back brace


Umm, Raymond only managed to score 2 goals and 6 assists in 24 playoff games so I'm not sure how much he helped get the Canucks to game 7 of the SCF... Bottom line is he's NOT a top 6 forward... Skates like lightning but handles the puck like a grenade... He's perfect as a third line winger and PK player... I'm not sure why Higgins is still on the third line... Bring him back up with Kesler and Booth...
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#336 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:03 AM

I'm getting sick of watching him carry the puck in with speed, go around the net and lose it before he can find someone to pass to. I know people are defending him, as he works hard, but he doesn't have the physical strength or the hockey sense to be a 2nd liner on this team. And it's showing in his stats.
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#337 CanucksJay

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

Umm, Raymond only managed to score 2 goals and 6 assists in 24 playoff games so I'm not sure how much he helped get the Canucks to game 7 of the SCF... Bottom line is he's NOT a top 6 forward... Skates like lightning but handles the puck like a grenade... He's perfect as a third line winger and PK player... I'm not sure why Higgins is still on the third line... Bring him back up with Kesler and Booth...


Maybe they are showcasing him on 2nd line before trade deadline but the plan is backfiring...
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#338 HorseGem2007

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

Mason doesn't cut it anymore, time to trade him or .....
Stats below shows 1st & 2nd line and if Mason really fits in our top 2 lines.

First Line GP G A Pts +/- Shots S%
D. Sedin 59 26 35 61 19 193 13.5
H. Sedin 60 13 51 64 21 86 15.1
A. Burrows 58 22 18 40 20 142 15,5

Second Line GP G A Pts +/- Shots S%
D. Booth 34 11 11 22 3 85 12.9
R. Kesler 55 18 23 41 14 152 11.8
C. Higgins 49 11 18 29 8 109 10.1
or
M. Raymond 35 6 8 14 6 75 8.0

Move anyone else to the second line (I know we don't have another LW) if Higgy's health is still questionnable.
But in the last 2 years Raymond has not fit with the team, and is definately not worthy to be on the 2nd line.
MG has 5 days before TD to upgrade the team either with depth in defense and/or another forward.

I'm hoping for both. Problem we have now is if Bitz & Higgins are not 90% healthy, not sure we can't make a deep run in the playoffs. We saw it last year with the injuries we had and players playing less than 90% (healthwise), and the Western Conference will be a very tough test before SCF - the West is not going to be "un morceau de gateau"
GO :canucks: GO
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#339 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

Typical Raymond shift: Skate back and forth really fast, wait for someone to get you the puck, then skate it through the neutral zone, make a few moves, then dash for the corner and get muscled off the puck by a defender.


thats real talk , the little kid is ineffective and flops around more than Luongo.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#340 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:49 PM

Umm, Raymond only managed to score 2 goals and 6 assists in 24 playoff games so I'm not sure how much he helped get the Canucks to game 7 of the SCF... Bottom line is he's NOT a top 6 forward... Skates like lightning but handles the puck like a grenade... He's perfect as a third line winger and PK player... I'm not sure why Higgins is still on the third line... Bring him back up with Kesler and Booth...


Hansen had one more point and Higgins had the same in the playoffs. Neither of them have Raymond's defensive qualities.........This board is crawling with people eager to put those 2 on the 2nd line. He handles the puck better than most of the team.........do you even watch the games?
You are so wrapped up in your dislike for a fine player, any judgement or logic you might have possessed is only a distant memory.
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#341 Bodee

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:56 PM

thats real talk , the little kid is ineffective and flops around more than Luongo.


I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.
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#342 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:15 PM

I think it's you that is the little kid...........junior. How old are you? I notice you don't have big enough stones to show your age. Your posts are confined to derogatory remarks about a decent hard working player who gives his all for this team. You on the other hand go about these boards embarrassing yourself.

Back to your Playstation ...........junior.


I noticed you don't have your age displayed on your profile.... Just sayin'.
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#343 78thseason

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:15 PM

I'm afraid Mason will not be the same player as he was before the back injury. I don't know if it's just me but you can't even notice his speed anymore. Kinda feel for him, he's gone through a lot and the club has been nothing but patient with him.

Who knows maybe his true value will show in the playoffs, if he still dawns the blue n white...
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#344 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:25 PM

It is you that finds facts difficult to grasp. Raymond helped the Canucks to the SC final game.............which makes your comment utterly stupid. They were one game away with an injury beset team. Ironically who is to say Raymond might not have helped us win that game if he wasn't wearing a back brace


Not really... he almost completely vanished during the playoffs, scoring a whopping 2 goals.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 22 February 2012 - 01:27 PM.

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#345 Scheiderfanforlife

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:38 PM

Not really... he almost completely vanished during the playoffs, scoring a whopping 2 goals.


Touching on what you said.

Last 8 playoff games 0 goals 0 assists 2 hits plus/minus = -5 Raymond is NOT A GOOD PLAYER.

Yes Raymond has great speed but thats all he has folks.
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#346 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

Sorry,bud.He is gonzo.

If some org will take the salary,that is.

Can't win with him at this point in time.

Window closing and Stanley is calling.


And this exemplifies just how much patience this fan base is lacking. The desire to go for it and win now at all costs without any regard to the future.
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#347 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

Not really... he almost completely vanished during the playoffs, scoring a whopping 2 goals.


exactly, its clear to everyone but a couple Raymond Stans like Bodee who spent their lifetime savings on his jersey 3 years ago and can't face reality.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#348 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:12 PM

Unsubstantiated bollocks.

He is playing a better all round game just now than either Booth or Kesler.



Bodee are you Raymond's agent ?
how high are you right now ?
your Pro-Raymond delusion is all-time :picard:
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#349 lexluthor

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:13 PM

MR has 1 point (an assist) in last 9 games is not good enough for a 2nd line player. The 2nd line is there for offence when the 1st line is being shutdown by the opposition team.

When MR is on the 3rd line, he still has trouble getting points even though he would be playing against the opposition's bottom defensive pairings and forwards.
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#350 MLT

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:14 PM

And this exemplifies just how much patience this fan base is lacking. The desire to go for it and win now at all costs without any regard to the future.


I understand what you're saying here. But i dont think Raymond will score than the 25 he got a couple years back. I think that season was an overachievment.Trading raymond is hardly "blowing it up". More, just trading a mediocre player and trying to upgrade to win the cup. I like mase, but i think he has peaked and would like to see his spot upgraded. If there are plenty of players in the league that can score 15 goals and add alot more grit on top of that.
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#351 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

I understand what you're saying here. But i dont think Raymond will score than the 25 he got a couple years back. I think that season was an overachievment.Trading raymond is hardly "blowing it up". More, just trading a mediocre player and trying to upgrade to win the cup. I like mase, but i think he has peaked and would like to see his spot upgraded. If there are plenty of players in the league that can score 15 goals and add alot more grit on top of that.


Yes you can find players like that, but not many at or around $2.55 mil per. If he had a lot more grit to his game he'd be making at least 3.5+, maybe even 4 mil. Tuomo Ruutu today re-signed for 4.75, 250k less than Kesler. No way we'd pay him that much, with his injury history and all.

That season you mentioned was also when he got a lot of PP time too, something he isn't getting right now.
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#352 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

Yes you can find players like that, but not many at or around $2.55 mil per. If he had a lot more grit to his game he'd be making at least 3.5+, maybe even 4 mil. Tuomo Ruutu today re-signed for 4.75, 250k less than Kesler. No way we'd pay him that much, with his injury history and all.

That season you mentioned was also when he got a lot of PP time too, something he isn't getting right now.


Well said. A lot of people around here talk about Raymond's salary as if it were a lot, but in today's NHL it's pretty much chump change. We're paying Manny about the same to take faceoffs.....
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#353 Scheiderfanforlife

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:35 PM

when he got a lot of PP time too, something he isn't getting right now.


Maybe if he could hit an open net he would have more power play time? lets get real .. Raymond cant hit the broad side of a barn. Even in warm ups he cant hit the net with no goalie or players obstructing him.. Only times he scores is shooting it off of someone or spining around in the SO. Suprised he doesnt fall over trying that move he can hardly stay on his feet trying to trick opponents with stops and starts as it is.
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#354 Millerdraft

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

Hansen had one more point and Higgins had the same in the playoffs. Neither of them have Raymond's defensive qualities.........This board is crawling with people eager to put those 2 on the 2nd line. He handles the puck better than most of the team.........do you even watch the games?
You are so wrapped up in your dislike for a fine player, any judgement or logic you might have possessed is only a distant memory.


I'm sorry but this is completely false. Higgins has Raymond bested in nearly every RTSS there is:

Exhibit one: Higgins has 8shg (in 460gp) to Raymond's 2shg (308gp) to Hansen's 2shg (249gp).
So 1.42shg/82gp to 0.53shg/82gp to 0.65shg/82gp.

Exhibit two: Higgins has 302-114 takeaways-giveaways (39-12 this year). Raymond has 125-75 TA-GA (10-7 this year). Hansen has 105-51 (25-17 this year).
So 53-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 33-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 35-17 TA-GA per 82gp.

Exhibit three: Higgins has 280 blocked shots to Raymond's 68 blocked shots to Hansen's 75 blocked shots.
So 50 blocked shots/82gp to 18.1 blocked shots/82gp to 25 blocked shots per 82gp.

Exhibit four: Higgins has 517 hits to Raymond's 187 hits to Hansen's 296 hits.
So 92 hits/82gp to 50 hits/82gp to 97 hits/82gp.

Exhibit five:

Higgins:
11/12 6ppga in 57mins = 78.6% PK rate
10/11 6ppga in 109mins = 89.1% PK rate
09/10 11ppga in 145mins = 84.9% PK rate
08/09 12ppga in 122mins = 80.4% PK rate
07/08 10ppga in 127mins = 84.4% PK rate
06/07 14ppga in 129mins = 78.5% PK rate
05/06 16ppga in 182mins = 82.4% PK rate
Career totals: 70ppga in 774mins = 82.0% PK rate


Raymond:
11/12 1ppga in 40mins = 95%
10/11 5ppga in 75mins = 86.9%
09/10 13ppga in 128mins = 79.7%
08/09 6ppga in 56mins = 78.6%
Career totals: 25ppga in 299mins = 83.4%

Hansen:
11/12 12ppga in 138mins = 82.6%
10/11 9ppga in 198mins = 91%
09/10 9ppga in 84mins = 78.6%
08/09 8ppga in 93mins = 73%
Career totals: 38ppga in 513mins = 85.3%

Edited by Millerdraft, 22 February 2012 - 06:11 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#355 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

And this exemplifies just how much patience this fan base is lacking. The desire to go for it and win now at all costs without any regard to the future.


That was what Ray Ferraro was saying this morning.He knows more than you and I about what is and will be.
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#356 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

I'm sorry but this is completely false. Higgins has Raymond bested in nearly early RTSS there is:

Exhibit one: Higgins has 8shg (in 460gp) to Raymond's 2shg (308gp) to Hansen's 2shg (249gp).
So 1.42shg/82gp to 0.53shg/82gp to 0.65shg/82gp.

Exhibit two: Higgins has 302-114 takeaways-giveaways (39-12 this year). Raymond has 125-75 TA-GA (10-7 this year). Hansen has 105-51 (25-17 this year).
So 53-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 33-20 TA-GA per 82gp to 35-17 TA-GA per 82gp.

Exhibit three: Higgins has 280 blocked shots to Raymond's 68 blocked shots to Hansen's 75 blocked shots.
So 50 blocked shots/82gp to 18.1 blocked shots/82gp to 25 blocked shots per 82gp.

Exhibit four: Higgins has 517 hits to Raymond's 187 hits to Hansen's 296 hits.
So 92 hits/82gp to 50 hits/82gp to 97 hits/82gp.

Exhibit five:

Higgins:
11/12 6ppga in 57mins = 78.6% PK rate
10/11 6ppga in 109mins = 89.1% PK rate
09/10 11ppga in 145mins = 84.9% PK rate
08/09 12ppga in 122mins = 80.4% PK rate
07/08 10ppga in 127mins = 84.4% PK rate
06/07 14ppga in 129mins = 78.5% PK rate
05/06 16ppga in 182mins = 82.4% PK rate
Career totals: 70ppga in 774mins = 82.0% PK rate


Raymond:
11/12 1ppga in 40mins = 95%
10/11 5ppga in 75mins = 86.9%
09/10 13ppga in 128mins = 79.7%
08/09 6ppga in 56mins = 78.6%
Career totals: 25ppga in 299mins = 83.4%

Hansen:
11/12 12ppga in 138mins = 82.6%
10/11 9ppga in 198mins = 91%
09/10 9ppga in 84mins = 78.6%
08/09 8ppga in 93mins = 73%
Career totals: 38ppga in 513mins = 85.3%


Looks like ,in the face of facts,the Raymond peanut gallery has gone MIA.
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#357 nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:06 PM

Exhibit three: Higgins has 280 blocked shots to Raymond's 68 blocked shots to Hansen's 75 blocked shots.
So 50 blocked shots/82gp to 18.1 blocked shots/82gp to 25 blocked shots per 82gp.

Exhibit four: Higgins has 517 hits to Raymond's 187 hits to Hansen's 296 hits.
So 92 hits/82gp to 50 hits/82gp to 97 hits/82gp.

So,can't hit,can't score and won't go to the centre of the ice.
Yeah,we will win the cup with Raymond on the second-not.
Third line duties? Yes.
Second line duties on a team that can afford to toil in seventh place and are not an immediate cup contender.
I wish him well.It is not a hate fest on May Ray.
It is reality time if your team is about to upgrade and have a better chance to win now.
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#358 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:24 PM

So,can't hit,can't score and won't go to the centre of the ice.
Yeah,we will win the cup with Raymond on the second-not.
Third line duties? Yes.
Second line duties on a team that can afford to toil in seventh place and are not an immediate cup contender.
I wish him well.It is not a hate fest on May Ray.
It is reality time if your team is about to upgrade and have a better chance to win now.


cosign.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#359 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:38 PM

Maybe if he could hit an open net he would have more power play time? lets get real .. Raymond cant hit the broad side of a barn. Even in warm ups he cant hit the net with no goalie or players obstructing him.. Only times he scores is shooting it off of someone or spining around in the SO. Suprised he doesnt fall over trying that move he can hardly stay on his feet trying to trick opponents with stops and starts as it is.


Maybe this is a case of just focusing on one player all the time so that every mistake he makes gets magnified? I seem to recall people doing this to Bieksa not too long ago...

That was what Ray Ferraro was saying this morning.He knows more than you and I about what is and will be.


It's one thing to listen to what media experts say. It's quite another to just believe them.

Look, nobody's saying he's perfect or that he isn't struggling offensively. When you come back after a long layoff your initial adrenaline carries you at first but then you hit a wall when your lack of conditioning catches up with you. Same thing with Edler last year who was good when he returned after that back injury but struggled mightily in the 2nd round. It happens. Consistency for young players takes a while to become ingrained in you after being out for all that time. Even some 30+ year old veterans who miss a lot of time can struggle to find their game again at first.

Add the fact that he had no time to bulk up due to his recovery process and you see why he falls over or gets knocked down so easily. He has little upper-body strength and just doesn't seem very coordinated out there. But that's not something that can't be fixed in the offseason with a lot of work in the gym.

If you can find an upgrade on him at a similar price (i.e not Ruutu), sure why not? But who?

Edited by Canvoucer Vanuck, 22 February 2012 - 06:40 PM.

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#360 nuck nit

nuck nit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

"It's one thing to listen to what media experts say. It's quite another to just believe them." Vanuck

Ferraro was a 192 point per year Brandon Wheat King ,Memorial Cup winner and 1258 NHL regular season games played veteran.22 professional years spent playing in the NHL,alone.

Ray scored 108 goals in a single year for Brandon,two-40 goal NHL campaigns and has 898 NHL points.

He is as close to an NHL expert as you will find.

He is now in media because he is the man,the NHL man.Calling Ray a media expert is like calling Gretzky a coach.

Ray lives in Vancouver and is as close to the Canucks as near anyone is in the broadcasting system today.

The fact is ,Van needs to dump salary if they want to attempt to acquire a playoff contending winger or D man.

If you don't trade the under performing and weak May Ray, just who goes to create the needed salary for a player that will go to the dirty areas,hit and score?

Edited by nuck nit, 22 February 2012 - 09:17 PM.

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