Bodee Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 look at his performance in the playoffs his pt production post his one good seasonin 2009. ALL TERRIBLE..and declining. Goals/Pts 2009/10- 82 gp 25g 28 a = 53 pts = .65 ppg 2010/11 - 70 gp 15g 24 a = 39 pts = .55 ppg 2011/12 - 55 gp 10g 10a = 20 pts (and scratched a number) =.37ppg Playoffs 2009/10 10gp 2g 1 a = 3pts = .30ppg 2010/11 12gp 3g 1a = 4pts = -.33ppg 2011/12 24gp 2g 6a = 8 pts =.33ppg He has been declining in production since is so called breakout year. Rather than improving his ppg average has been declining. And while you can argue all you want about last season it doesn't take away the trend on a ppg basis and moreover his even lower production in the playoffs. You realize his production in the playoffs is consistent with his play during his "injured season" that you are clinging to...so what does that say about his value to the team? When it matters he's not around right? Argue those stats, I'd be interested how fans think that he should be signed to 3 million bucks when he disappears in the playoffs when size matters and when that;s really what matters in the end, how do you perform to get to the cup...No one cares if you can play in open ice/no traffic, go play in Europe then. The Canucks need size with speed, not guys that fly around this ice at high speed do nothing then fall down when they turn and lose the puck...kinda takes the point away from speed doesn't it. COM.....PRENDE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surtur Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Raymond did have a couple real good games that he did everything right and was our best forward on the ice ... then he remembered what name was on the back of his jersey and well played like it. he has skill and speed, but lacks something... heart? confidence? i don't know but i say put him on the third line with lappy and burrows for a half dozen games if he can get some of what those 2 have ( they just have that "would die for the game" thing going on) he could be a 50pt player again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksExpress2 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I am with you, Goblix. There is no way, MGGM lets Raymond walk. If he packages up a trade, who will he trade? Well, if he has a guy whom most seem to think would be signed for $4M on his roster at a 2.5 M price, don't you think that would look pretty good as part of a trade package? Kes is out until Christmas probably, so I don't know how much depth everyone thinks we have, but Raymond will probably be getting 2nd line minutes until Kes returns. If I was AV and MG, I'd be praying for bounce back years from the Sedins, Manny, Booth, Edler, and Mr Raymond. Resigning Sami. As well as Ballard playing at the level they hoped for a few years ago when they got him. Otherwise, it is going to be a loooong year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostdivision Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Raymond on his day is still head and shoulders above Hansen, Booth, Higgins, or any of the 3rd or 4th liners. Granted he did not have his best season last season but he was lucky to be able to ice at all. It is a pity that most of the CDC fans don't understand the qualities a fit Raymond brings to this team. Someone above quotes the speed of another 3 of our forwards........I say get real, they have nowhere near Raymond's speed. Let's be honest very few players have. It makes me laugh to read about putting the likes of Sweatt, Schroeder or Jensen in ahead of Raymond. Hell they couldn't even match Raymond of last year. As I have said I don't mind whether Raymond plays or doesn't, whether he is with the Canucks or is traded, I just like to keep things real. The people on here who slate Raymond unfairly are the same idiots who wanted rid of Bieksa, Burrows, Ballard, Hodgson.........and now Kesler. Kudos to the OP for pointing out just how good Raymond could be for us at his salary. Ps I have never seen a fit Raymond disappear in the playoffs (or any game) like Higgins and Booth did............and I like Higgins a lot. He is also still the best line mate we have for Kesler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucksBruins Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Raymond struggled last season. I am always leery of letting someone go for nothing (not qualifying an RFA) with no one to replace them. He's still young, and he still has the potential. The Canucks organization isn't known for its depth in terms of prospects. The UFA class is not a stellar one either. 2.5 million isn't crippling under the cap either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBestPlaceOnEarth Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 There's a big difference between Raymond at 1.5 and Raymond at 2.5...at 1.5 he can be an effective third-line winger because his speed and acceleration make him good on the forecheck and PK. At 2.5, he's an ineffective second line winger who doesn't go to the net or win battles along the boards but floats around above the circles, unable to create offence. The Canucks can't afford to pay Raymond more than 1.5 for the production he's put up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Goblin Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Since Raymond has the skill and speed, I say if he can add 10-15 lbs in muscle and get tougher over the summer, he could become a dynamic player. Although not as good as Booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I stand by what I have said. Chris Higgins Age 28 - 48 - 11 - 12 - 23.............0.47 ppg Age 29 - 71 - 18 - 25 - 43.............0.60 ppg Mason Raymond Age 21 49 - 9 - 12 - 21.................0.43 ppg Age 22 72 - 11 - 12 - 23...............0.32 ppg Age 23. 82 - 25 - 28 - 53..............0.64 ppg Age 25. 70 - 15 24 - 39...............0.56 ppg Age 26. 55 - 10 - 10 - 20..............0.36 ppg Jannik Hansen Age 21 55 - 6 - 15 - 21........0.38 ppg Age 23 47 - 9 - 6 - 15..........0.32 ppg Age 25 82 - 9 - 20 - 29........0.35 ppg Age 26 82 - 16 - 23 - 39......0.47 ppg Booth has a ppg of 0.51. Given the last season there is only one of these players who was playing after recovering from a fractured vertebrae and who missed the pre season. Given their time at the Canucks and the age of the players you would have to be short sighted not to think Mason Raymond is the player with the best performance stats and/or the best potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Why do Kes and Manny get a pass coming off injuries but not MayRay. 2.55 mill is nothing with the cap where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWheeler Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I stand by what I have said. Chris Higgins Age 28 - 48 - 11 - 12 - 23.............0.47 ppg Age 29 - 71 - 18 - 25 - 43.............0.60 ppg Mason Raymond Age 21 49 - 9 - 12 - 21.................0.43 ppg Age 22 72 - 11 - 12 - 23...............0.32 ppg Age 23. 82 - 25 - 28 - 53..............0.64 ppg Age 25. 70 - 15 24 - 39...............0.56 ppg Age 26. 55 - 10 - 10 - 20..............0.36 ppg Jannik Hansen Age 21 55 - 6 - 15 - 21........0.38 ppg Age 23 47 - 9 - 6 - 15..........0.32 ppg Age 25 82 - 9 - 20 - 29........0.35 ppg Age 26 82 - 16 - 23 - 39......0.47 ppg Booth has a ppg of 0.51. Given the last season there is only one of these players who was playing after recovering from a fractured vertebrae and who missed the pre season. Given their time at the Canucks and the age of the players you would have to be short sighted not to think Mason Raymond is the player with the best performance stats and/or the best potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Sign and trade, or move him on draft day. Doesn't fit here. Maybe Phoenix will pick him up. They're good a reclamation projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So where do we go for a replacement? The free agent route will lead to players like Raymond getting 4 million a year and we don't exactly have anyone in the system who is a lock for that spot. He doesn't lower the skill of the team, because at this point there is no suitable replacement (unless one of our rookies proves otherwise). If someone can take his spot on the team, its theirs. However at this point and time, he is mroe proven than any of our rookies and a cheaper option than free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahma Bull Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I stand by what I have said. Chris Higgins Age 28 - 48 - 11 - 12 - 23.............0.47 ppg Age 29 - 71 - 18 - 25 - 43.............0.60 ppg Mason Raymond Age 21 49 - 9 - 12 - 21.................0.43 ppg Age 22 72 - 11 - 12 - 23...............0.32 ppg Age 23. 82 - 25 - 28 - 53..............0.64 ppg Age 25. 70 - 15 24 - 39...............0.56 ppg Age 26. 55 - 10 - 10 - 20..............0.36 ppg Jannik Hansen Age 21 55 - 6 - 15 - 21........0.38 ppg Age 23 47 - 9 - 6 - 15..........0.32 ppg Age 25 82 - 9 - 20 - 29........0.35 ppg Age 26 82 - 16 - 23 - 39......0.47 ppg Booth has a ppg of 0.51. Given the last season there is only one of these players who was playing after recovering from a fractured vertebrae and who missed the pre season. Given their time at the Canucks and the age of the players you would have to be short sighted not to think Mason Raymond is the player with the best performance stats and/or the best potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 This is all fine and dandy when we call Raymond a 2nd/3rd liner...... Didn't we see him on the 1st line during the playoffs a bit? That is not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_dynasty Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 If Raymond is not packaged up in a trade, I think he'll be re-signed for a 2yr contract @ $2M cap hit. It'll give him some time to prove his worth and MG to "prop up" (see Hodgson) his stats to make him a more tradeable asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I really don't think much is going to happen until some ground moves on the new CBA. If there is an indication that a new CBA will not be in place and a few months of the season will be missed, I don't think MG tries to qualify Raymond or even sign him to a lesser deal. If the season doesn't start until December: Sedin Sedin Burrows Booth Kesler Kassian Hansen Lapierre Higgins UFA Malholtra UFA I'm not certain about Kassian on the 2nd line. Higgins is more dependable on that line. Nevertheless, Raymond doesn't fit into the top 6, and there are more gritty/dependable/affordable guys out there to fill the bottom six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 There is nothing more redeeming than a player who back-checks hard every time, something Raymond does - and the thing about Raymond is that he can skate down an odd-man rush as effectively as anyone in the NHL - a quality that can be stifling and frustrating to play against. I am sure this is not lost on GM's like Chiarelli, who are apparently showing interest, and at the less than average cap hit that Raymond earns, his offensive upside is a bonus. All the complaining about Raymond really defines the complainer nature in this fanbase - Raymond was picked 51st - he came back from a mobility threatening injuy - twice in his young career he has proven to be more than could be expected - a bonus to the Canucks and still an important asset. To fail to re-sign him would be a waste and a giveaway that good organizations do not allow to cost them. He wasn't as strong on his skates last season as he was in the past -his instincts were to be able to cut hard and change direction on a dime like few players can, and he struggled somewhat to be able to do that. He is a character guy - he'll go back to the farm, throw around the bales for the summer, get his strength back, and will be a steal again at 2 or 2.6 or whatever his reasonable cap hit is. I look forward to seeing what Raymond will be able to do this year, and am very thankful he was able to recover from his broken back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Chiarelli's thoughts- Raymond is a poor man's Chris Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCammer Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm willing to wash the last year away due to the injury, the year before he wasnt bad he was mediocre, and the year before that he was great. I'm willing to send him 2m his way for 1 year, we saw a line of Grabner, Kesler, and Raymond work out because of their speed and scoring ability. Booth/Kesler/Raymond line should have a similar result. I'd be hoping for that kind of result once more. 26 year old, canadian canuck for life, surrrre 1 more chance! flame away CDC, flame away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Haha it doesn't really make a difference if we devalue him or overvalue him or not. The whole NHL knows that he is a weak player thinking he is top 6 quality because AV dresses him up as on. Whats the point in dressing a sheep in wolfs coat, lol. Also your wrong Leafs overhype their players prime example is Schenn. You are pretty foolish we will get a big return for Raymond. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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