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6 Signs the Vancouver Canucks' Stanley Cup Window Is Closing


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Poll: 6 Signs the Vancouver Canucks' Stanley Cup Window Is Closing (160 member(s) have cast votes)

Are the Vancouver Canucks' Stanley Cup Window Closing ?

  1. Yes (96 votes [60.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. No (64 votes [40.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

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#121 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:19 PM

So, you call Carter's performance overrated even though you admit that he scored some big goals, yet you call Alex Burrows clutch and not overrated for the exact same reasons and you admit that he wasn't a huge producer either? I appreciate your positivity and support for the Canucks but you sound like a major homer when you make comments like that.


Well yeah but that's my opinon, i mean CBC acted like he was getting points every game and like he was Kesler vs Nashville, he was good in playoff for them, but I think they made it see like he was great. And I just said big goals to give him some credit, but really he scored like one big goal, that overtime goal in game two, where as Burrows is more clutch for the reasons I said, he's done it a # of times.

You also have to remember everything else Burrow's brings that Carter doesn't Carter is a better player I'm not saying he isn't but Burrows is better defensively, he can kill penalties better which is huge.


When I say clutch I don't mean he is a huge producer that is PPG every year, I mean he scores BIG goals and Burrows does that, I think you don't understand what I meant by clutch.


Have you never heard of players playing their best hockey in contract years and then settling into mediocrity or not living up to their play or the expectations that they have after they sign their big deal? It happens in all sports. Hopefully it doesn't happen with Garrison but you'd be a fool not to worry about it, especially considering he had by FAR his best year when he was entering his free agent year. It's happened to many before him and he's going to have more pressure to perform than ever before and hopefully he can live up to the contract and the huge expectations.


Yeah true, your right that happen's to people, but I think you have to look at this particular case.

I dont think Garrison will become satisfied or whatever, he's in his hometown like he has always wanted so he will be training and he will come out and try to exceed those expectations and do his best and get better, and like he said himself he thinks he can be better so that's exciting.

It's something you think about forsure but honestly like.. he's 27, I think when that happen's the players are usually like 22-24 or else 28-32 and there usually forwards, if you think about it. Most of the time that happen's the player is forward and then they don't have success.


He may not turn out but I'm just not that worried really, he had been a reliable defensive defensemen before and he just worked on his shot and added that offense so even if he doesn't get as many goals, I think he will still be useful.

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#122 winacup

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

Our window for legitimately contending is closing. With the current group I think we have one more very good shot this year, and a lesser shot next year. After that it's tough seeing them being a top team unless some of our young players massively overachieve.

this year was our year cuz of what we learned from going to game 7 of the scf the year before.
oh wait......
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#123 winacup

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:45 PM

Detroit Red Wings say hello.Over half of their cup winning teams were Europeans in 2002 and 2008.
The 2008 Detroit cup winner had 9 Swedes,alone, while the 2002 Detroit cup winner's core had 10 Europeans with names like Fedorov,Larionov,Datsyuk,Hasek,Holmstrom,Lidstrom,Slegr and Krupp.
In fact,if anybody cares to look we can find that the top ten scorers for the 2008 Stanley Cup winners from Detroit had 9 Europeans and only one North American-an American,Brian Rafalski.Not even one Canadian:
http://redwings.nhl....season=20072008

There is so much racism in this post/statement and I find it to be offensively ignorant,very similar to Don Cherry ignoramus Canadiana propaganda.
Buddy,water freezes all over the WORLD's northern hemisphere,not just in Canada.

http://redwings.nhl....ge.htm?id=44034
http://redwings.nhl....ge.htm?id=44033


might have worked then. doesn't now.
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#124 Mustapha

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

I love it when people try to predict the future in pro sports.

Did people really think last season Phoenix would make the West finals?

Was Ray Whitney too old to help them get there?

I remember hearing the 'too old' crap in 02 about Detroit. Guess what they did that year.

The Canucks have the talent to win. They will need focus, a desire to win and yes, some luck (every team that wins gets a few bounces) but they can do it. They are a top 5, maybe top 3 hockey club overall, and considering they are going into this season (if it starts) as consecutive Pres. Trophy champs, I would say they have as good a shot as they ever had.

Edited by Mustapha, 13 August 2012 - 09:52 PM.

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this is why i shaked my head at those Canuck fans that cheered on the fLames to make the playoffs... that fan base is stupid as f thats the fan base that still to this day are convinced Alberts faked going down for a call on hit on that McGrattan hit that sent him to retirement. 

 

I hated that fan base since 04 and will forever hate them. they have such a huge inferiority complex about our team and the city/province. I hope we dispose of these losers quickly. 

 


#125 winacup

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:55 PM

as good a shot as they ever had.....
that means no cup again this year then.

Edited by winacup, 13 August 2012 - 09:56 PM.

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#126 nuck nit

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:09 PM

might have worked then. doesn't now.


You mean it worked for Detroit but Gillis has not assembled enough talent-European or otherwise.
The two European superstars he was gifted with do not have sufficient support-unlike the Detroit model.
Gillis has a habit of trading away his brightest young offensive talents.
Might be a case of misjudging your talent pool.
Besides Detroit's European dominance of the NHL,Euro super talent such as Jagr,Selanne,Malkin and Hossa have led their teams to Stanley Cup Championships.

Edited by nuck nit, 14 August 2012 - 01:21 AM.


#127 Drop Em

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

Well yeah but that's my opinon, i mean CBC acted like he was getting points every game and like he was Kesler vs Nashville, he was good in playoff for them, but I think they made it see like he was great. And I just said big goals to give him some credit, but really he scored like one big goal, that overtime goal in game two, where as Burrows is more clutch for the reasons I said, he's done it a # of times.

You also have to remember everything else Burrow's brings that Carter doesn't Carter is a better player I'm not saying he isn't but Burrows is better defensively, he can kill penalties better which is huge.


When I say clutch I don't mean he is a huge producer that is PPG every year, I mean he scores BIG goals and Burrows does that, I think you don't understand what I meant by clutch.




Yeah true, your right that happen's to people, but I think you have to look at this particular case.

I dont think Garrison will become satisfied or whatever, he's in his hometown like he has always wanted so he will be training and he will come out and try to exceed those expectations and do his best and get better, and like he said himself he thinks he can be better so that's exciting.

It's something you think about forsure but honestly like.. he's 27, I think when that happen's the players are usually like 22-24 or else 28-32 and there usually forwards, if you think about it. Most of the time that happen's the player is forward and then they don't have success.


He may not turn out but I'm just not that worried really, he had been a reliable defensive defensemen before and he just worked on his shot and added that offense so even if he doesn't get as many goals, I think he will still be useful.


I don't really care what CBC said because I have my own eyes and I'm not going to be persuaded to think a certain way because of them. But what I don't understand is that you mentioned yourself that Carter scored big goals and yet you called him overrated when you said that Burrows scores clutch goals but you don't consider him overrated? What is the difference between scoring clutch goals and scoring big goals? In my eyes, big goals are clutch and clutch goals are big. Now you're saying that I have to keep in mind all of the other things that Burrows does but you admit that Carter is the better player? So, if Carter is the better player, wouldn't he have to be doing other things on the ice to help his team win as well.

In saying all of that, I agree that Burrows does do many things to help the team win and does score important goals but even you have admitted that Carter has done the same and is the better player yet you consider him overrated? How is this possible? I just think that this is a very homeristic point of view.

Wow, so you're now saying that for the most part the only players who take a step back after signing big contracts are forwards between the ages of 22-24 and 28-32 while miraculously Garrison is a defenseman and 27? Do you have any facts at all to support this argument? And I wasn't just talking about hockey as it happens in every sport. I think that it's very close minded to think that this only happens to hockey forwards in the age ranges you mentioned.
Also, I don't doubt that Garrison will be hungry but I know of other players who have signed big contracts who have been extremely hungry who crapped the bed after they signed their big contracts. With Garrison coming back home to play under all of the scrutiny he will be under, is only going to add to the pressure. Sometimes you can try too hard and this is one of the things that many players in his situation have done, which compounds problems. Again, I hope this isn't going to happen but it's a real probablity.

#128 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

I don't really care what CBC said because I have my own eyes and I'm not going to be persuaded to think a certain way because of them. But what I don't understand is that you mentioned yourself that Carter scored big goals and yet you called him overrated when you said that Burrows scores clutch goals but you don't consider him overrated? What is the difference between scoring clutch goals and scoring big goals? In my eyes, big goals are clutch and clutch goals are big. Now you're saying that I have to keep in mind all of the other things that Burrows does but you admit that Carter is the better player? So, if Carter is the better player, wouldn't he have to be doing other things on the ice to help his team win as well.

In saying all of that, I agree that Burrows does do many things to help the team win and does score important goals but even you have admitted that Carter has done the same and is the better player yet you consider him overrated? How is this possible? I just think that this is a very homeristic point of view.

Wow, so you're now saying that for the most part the only players who take a step back after signing big contracts are forwards between the ages of 22-24 and 28-32 while miraculously Garrison is a defenseman and 27? Do you have any facts at all to support this argument? And I wasn't just talking about hockey as it happens in every sport. I think that it's very close minded to think that this only happens to hockey forwards in the age ranges you mentioned.
Also, I don't doubt that Garrison will be hungry but I know of other players who have signed big contracts who have been extremely hungry who crapped the bed after they signed their big contracts. With Garrison coming back home to play under all of the scrutiny he will be under, is only going to add to the pressure. Sometimes you can try too hard and this is one of the things that many players in his situation have done, which compounds problems. Again, I hope this isn't going to happen but it's a real probablity.


With the Carter and Burrows thing, it's comparing apples to oranges.

Carter is a star player, Burrows isn't and in my opinon for all the publicity Carter gets as a star player he is overrated, he is considered a star player but I don't think he has been as good as he once was.

It's not really fair to compare the two cause it's like comparing an average player to a star player and then making the argument you have.

And you are acting like I said Burrows is better or just as good as him, when that's not the case, Carter is a better player right, he's on a different level than Burrows but I think for being on that level he is a bit overrated, cause he doesn't do as well as he should, like his stats are similar to Burrow's and he is a star player and Burrow's isn't, just to show how I think Carter is overrated for being a star like he is.

If you kinda understand what I am saying, even if he is overrated like I am saying he's still gunna be better than Burrows because he's a star. Anyways.



For the Garrison thing when you said (what I highlighted.) I could say the same thing, when you said "I know alot of players who........" Who exactly? I'm think of forwards guys like Gomez and Wolski, and Sturm and stuff, I can't remember recently where a defensemen has signed a contract this big and been a complete flop, if there are some please let me know but I can't really think of any.

To me it seems to be forwards that pose a greater risk in these situations than defensemen.

I don't think the scrutiny will be a factor, I think it will be more like the Ronning situation where he thought there would be but there never was and fans would give him a break, I think it will be like that because Garrison won't be a star player for us so there won't be alot of pressure on him, I'm sure fans aren't expecting him to score as many goals as long as he just plays solid all round game he will be fine and he's shown he can do that.


I can understand people being weary but I don't think the risk is as high as people think, and that people are just saying that because there's not much to talk about and just to make an objective argument, like they would about any other player.

Once the season begin's the negative arguments will go away and I think he will fit in well.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 13 August 2012 - 10:42 PM.

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#129 YTP

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:00 AM

Why does everyone automatically assume Garrison is going to flourish in Vancouver?


I'm also referring to Salo here, too.
Invaluable player when he's around, but a couple of bumps and he's reduced to half a season of play.
Hoping the guy survives through the playoffs is another story.

Garrison's a fairly durable guy, sweet shot, decent +/- on a crappy team.
Big, young, looks like Johnny Canuck.
Also truly excited and passionate about playing for Vancouver.

Yeah, I think Garrison will outplay Salo this year.
If Salo were a mostly healthy guy, that would be a different story. Salo mostly healthy = impossible.
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#130 EvoLu7ioN

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:47 AM

Our window to win closes once the Sedins stop being elite offensive players, which is right around the PPG mark. Their game is based on their hockey sense, so they will remain elite for longer, but a natural regression is inevitable. Personally, I think they have 2 more years at the elite level, and thus our window to win is 2 years as well.

Gillis needs to capitalize on our chance to win in the next 2 years. Trade a first round pick and prospect to get that top 6 forward at the deadline FFS. This isn't about just having a competitive team every year and selling at least 1 round in the playoffs, this is about winning a cup.

If we go all in and lose, I'll understand. But if we fail to go all in, and sort of fade out over the next few years, that's unacceptable.

A bold move is required here Mr. Gillis, are you up to the task.

Edited by EvoLu7ioN, 14 August 2012 - 07:48 AM.

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#131 winacup

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:33 AM

gillis is all talk about bold moves. he should have gone all in last playoffs when he was going in with a team that came within a game of winning it all. now he all he has to work with is a team that fell 15 games short. the history of fail continues.......

Edited by winacup, 15 August 2012 - 08:34 PM.

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#132 Tangelos

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:50 AM

There's just so many issues with this team that I can't see them winning the cup. They have absolutely no chemistry on the second line nor do they get any secondary scoring in the playoffs. Where was Raymond? Where was Higgins? Where was Kesler? Where was Edler? Where was Luongo? Sedin and Schneider were the only guys who actually looked like they cared out there. It was really sad just watching the rest of the team leave them out to dry like that. They played their heart out and everyone else was just there to cash in it seemed. And our defense, while very good offensively make so many fundamental errors in their own zone that it's laughable.

I hope I'm wrong though.

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#133 Riviera82

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:39 AM

There's just so many issues with this team that I can't see them winning the cup. They have absolutely no chemistry on the second line nor do they get any secondary scoring in the playoffs. Where was Raymond? Where was Higgins? Where was Kesler? Where was Edler? Where was Luongo? Sedin and Schneider were the only guys who actually looked like they cared out there. It was really sad just watching the rest of the team leave them out to dry like that. They played their heart out and everyone else was just there to cash in it seemed. And our defense, while very good offensively make so many fundamental errors in their own zone that it's laughable.

I hope I'm wrong though.


Raymond is too soft for the regular season, so playoffs are completely out of the question.
Higgins is a hot and cold player, I think he finished his hot streak just before playoffs began.
Kesler had been injured for awhile and really shouldn't have played the last couple months of reg season.
Edler...I dont know what his problem was but he looked totally lost in the woods.
Luongo was in net, somewhere between good Luongo and meltdown Luongo. Hence he was average which was obviously not good enough and is usually insufficient for any team when it comes to the postseason.

#134 winacup

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:36 PM

too many soft players. this group will never win it all.
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#135 D-Money

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

too many soft players. this group will never win it all.


Obvious troll is obvious.

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#136 winacup

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:58 AM

stating a fact is trolling?
oh I forgot. this is cdc where anybody who isn't a fanboy is a troll.

Edited by winacup, 16 August 2012 - 10:08 AM.

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#137 Trelane42

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:31 AM

2 more years, or the length of contract remaining with Sedins, sounds about right. Not saying the twins won't be effective after, or even put up PPG or close to, but I don't think they'll match up well in the playoffs with other first liners on the compete front. Henkrik obviously still has it, as evidenced by his effort with LA, but that second gear won't always be there as anybody into their 30s can attest.

I don't think it is an accident that the last few Stanley Cup winners (Pens, Hawks, Bruins, Kings, have been young teams where the top line and most productive forwards have been in their prime or close to. Red Wings did it with a considerable younger Datsyuk and Zetterberg before that and haven't been close since.

Since we ain't drafting in the top 10 anytime soon (except we have a 2% chance at MacKinnon if there is no season) the thing to do is really stock up on high end hit or miss prospects and pray that some of them make it. The Luango trade can help: get a 1st round pick if Bjugstad or a comparable can't be had, and stay away from 2nd/3nd line tweeners. We have plenty on the roster and most recent 1st rounders project much the same.




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