King of the ES Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hello, I would just like to say that I have been following the Canucks for a long, long time and I have never seen better goaltending than what Luongo has delivered over the years as a Canucks. I believe he is the least of the problems on this team as many other aspects of the game have not been covered by the general manager including getting a leading number one defenseman, a pure top scoring right winger to play with the Sedins, as well as complementary players with a will to win it all despite all odds; the type that don't get rattled in the playoffs and keep it even keel when faced with adversity. On the other hand, the great talented players who toil for the Cancuks would be better served playing an honest game instead of playing referee; no referee in the World will take such behavior from the game's players. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with the team which in the end, gets deflated all throughout from the top line down to the goaltender as they, and subsequently the fans, feel they have been given an unfair biased rendering of the game played. I personally do not feel comfortable keeping Schneider while trading Luongo. Oftentimes a rising young goalie has dethroned a veteran goaltender whereby the vet was traded and the team subsequently fell apart the following years; Minnesota is a good example of this with Fernandez and Backstrom. Keeping both goaltenders would be ideal but if not, then Schneider should be the one traded for a player Vancouver desperately needs; a number one defenseman. I do not believe in this defense by committee structure. Most Cup winning teams, including recent winners L.A., Boston and Chicago had a 1D leading from the backend; someone who is able to instill fear in the opponent, if not only for the fact that he could give out an outlet pass at any time, or clear the crease efficiently, playing almost half the game if not more. Getting a 1D is the ideal deal for the Canucks. Schneider is the most coveted goaltender in the league at this point. Letting it be known that he is available could create an amazing lineup of teams willing to pay the high price the Canucks deserve for such a talent. His salary is perfect for any team to take on without having to grossly equate salary coming back. He is young and does not have an NTC to his contract, thereby drastically increasing the amount of potental targeted teams. Florida has Brian Campbell, ranked 3rd behind Chara (1st) and Shea Weber (2nd). Florida will not pay a high price for Luongo but would certainly increase their offer if Schneider were to be made available. The Canucks might even be able to pry Bjugstad along with Campbell from them in a Schneider package wereas in a Luongo package, Gillis is looking to add uneeded pieces on an almost complete puzzle. In Toronto, whether one likes Phaneuf or not since his days as a Flames, he is ranked 5th amongst defensemen. He brings the complete package and might be extremely motivated to be on a President's Trophy team. Burke also wants Schneider and not so much Luongo. Phaneuf comes at a hefty price capwise but he hits like a train and anchors the defense like few have done in this league. This could be a one for one deal, though Gillis might be able to pry even more than just Phaneuf out of Toronto. These are just two examples of how much a Schneider trade opens up opportunity for a Stanley Cup win due to the acquisition of the 1D; Chara is a Bruin and will not be moved, though one never knows, and Shea Weber's offer sheet was matched so he cannot be moved for one full year. A Luongo-led Canucks team with Campbell or Phaneuf, whether one likes it or not, is a much better team then the current Canucks defense by committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Here's a quick idea. To Tor: Luongo To Van: Bozak, Biggs, 1st (or 2nd if that is too much) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You're still dreaming. Prepare yourself for disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I could be a GM or an ex NHL goalie....assume what you like rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You say Purcell, Aulie and a 1st or Bozak, Biggs and a 1st or 2nd is unrealistic or 'too much' for Luongo, which is absurd. Then you come and propose not only Luongo but Ballard as well for Magnus freakin Paajarvi. Awesome way to contradict yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 That's the beauty of these. They're all guesses. You're expecting a 65-point getter, a good D prospect, and a 1st round pick, or an 18-goal scoring 3rd line C, and two effective 1st rounders, I'm expecting far, far less. Just have to see what Gillis gets, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm not against a Lu-for-Phaneuf trade. I don't like Phaneuf too much personally, but he's a very good hockey player (just not as good as he thinks he is). I think the league-wide value for both players is quite similar. That is taking in an extra 1.2 of cap, and leaving a log-jam on our blueline. I think I'd want to include Ballard in the deal, simply to balance the dollars, and then another component coming our way. Not sure who though...Bozak maybe? That still leaves Toronto with an extra 1.5 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You're still dreaming. Prepare yourself for disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree. You were right that my other proposals were off. Lindback was traded for approximately two 2nd rounders. While he hasn't played as many games as Schneider and his numbers aren't as good, he is younger and some would say he has more upside than Schneider. If two 2nd rounders is what Lindback was worth, Schneider can't be worth a lot more. Which brings in Luongo. Luongo who lost his job to a less proven goalie because he couldn't win the games when the Canucks needed them most, who's on a huge long term contract should get quite a bit less than what Nashville got for Lindback or what Halak got for Montreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm not against a Lu-for-Phaneuf trade. I don't like Phaneuf too much personally, but he's a very good hockey player (just not as good as he thinks he is). I think the league-wide value for both players is quite similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 2011-12 Lindback - 16GP, 5-8-2, .912 Save% (35th in league, min 10 GP), 2.42 GAA (23rd) Schneider - 33GP, 20-8-1, 937 Save % (2nd), 1.96 GAA (3rd) Over the last year, Schneider put up numbers that put him firmly among the elite goalies in the league. Lindback has a lot more to prove. On top of this, Anders has Adult On-set Stills disease. He needs to take powerful painkillers in order to perform. His ability to have a full NHL career is very much in doubt, especially with a starter's workload. Despite all this, Tampa still thought his abilities were worth spending a couple of good picks on. Schneider's value is light-years beyond Lindback. There isn't a goalie in the league with better numbers than him in the last two years combined, and he may be just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I didn't know that about Lindback's disease. The thing with Schneider and Luongo for that matter is their stats are inflated by playing on a President's Trophy team. You put those goalie on the Oilers or the Islanders and their stats take a big dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree. You were right that my other proposals were off. Lindback was traded for approximately two 2nd rounders. While he hasn't played as many games as Schneider and his numbers aren't as good, he is younger and some would say he has more upside than Schneider. If two 2nd rounders is what Lindback was worth, Schneider can't be worth a lot more. Which brings in Luongo. Luongo who lost his job to a less proven goalie because he couldn't win the games when the Canucks needed them most, who's on a huge long term contract should get quite a bit less than what Nashville got for Lindback or what Halak got for Montreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yes and no. Sometimes goalies on poor teams tend to have decent save percentages from the amount of shots they face (see Lu in Florida, Garon, Dubnyk, Nabokov with NYI, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree. You were right that my other proposals were off. Lindback was traded for approximately two 2nd rounders. While he hasn't played as many games as Schneider and his numbers aren't as good, he is younger and some would say he has more upside than Schneider. If two 2nd rounders is what Lindback was worth, Schneider can't be worth a lot more. Which brings in Luongo. Luongo who lost his job to a less proven goalie because he couldn't win the games when the Canucks needed them most, who's on a huge long term contract should get quite a bit less than what Nashville got for Lindback or what Halak got for Montreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 To Toronto: G Roberto Luongo D Keith Ballard To Vancouver: D Dion Phaneuf C Lombardi(cap dump) Or To TO: G Roberto Luongo D Chris Tanev To Vancouver: D Jake Gardiner 1st Round pick 2nd Round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 To Toronto: G Roberto Luongo D Keith Ballard To Vancouver: D Dion Phaneuf C Lombardi(cap dump) Or To TO: G Roberto Luongo D Chris Tanev To Vancouver: D Jake Gardiner 1st Round pick 2nd Round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 This post really explains how you come about some of the trade proposals you've listed in the past. Those evaluations are very poor. Schneider may not be proven as a starter yet in the NHL, but he's been a starter in the AHL, played more in international WC situations, and played in more games in the NHL (and pressure games) as a backup than Lindback has. Lindback still has to prove himself at the pro level and while he has shown promise, he's hardly shown anything proven beyond that at the top levels. A lot of people have replied to that already, but what no one has mentioned yet is you're saying Schneider was given the start against the Kings because Luongo couldn't win the first few games himself. Perhaps you're just looking at the stats, or perhaps you're just biased, but Luongo was not the issue in that series and many were saying he was one of if not our best player in the series to that point. To say Luongo is worth "quite a bit less" than Lindback is even more off than saying Schneider's not worth a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 To Toronto: G Roberto Luongo D Keith Ballard To Vancouver: D Dion Phaneuf C Lombardi(cap dump) Or To TO: G Roberto Luongo D Chris Tanev To Vancouver: D Jake Gardiner 1st Round pick 2nd Round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Conversely, many rookies also have inflated stats playing on top teams, which in my opinion, is Schneider's case. Put both Luongo and Schneider in Edmonton or Toronto and Luongo comes up on top every single time. We ought to be careful what we wish for. Luongo is proven; Schneider is unproven. See both resumes for factual proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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