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#61 theminister

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

for those non-basball fans who don't understand why this is such a great trade for the Jays...

It's the equivalent of this in the hockey world:

To Van:

Doan (Buerlhe)
Yandle (Johnson)
Vrbata (Reyes)
Chipchura (Bonaficio)
Bissonette (Buck)

To Pho:

Ballard (Escobar)
Raymond (Alvarez)
Weise (Mathis)
Schroeder (Hechavaria)
Connauton (Nicolino)
Corrado (Marinsick)
Mallet (DeSclafani)
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#62 Rey

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

for those non-basball fans who don't understand why this is such a great trade for the Jays...

It's the equivalent of this in the hockey world:

To Van:

Doan (Buerlhe)
Yandle (Johnson)
Vrbata (Reyes)
Chipchura (Bonaficio)
Bissonette (Buck)

To Pho:

Ballard (Escobar)
Raymond (Alvarez)
Weise (Mathis)
Schroeder (Hechavaria)
Connauton (Nicolino)
Corrado (Marinsick)
Mallet (DeSclafani)


X10000 worse for Miami.

More like.

Whitney(Buerhle)
Doan(Reyes)
Yandle(Johnson)
Boedker(Bonaficio)
Hanzel(Buck)

OEL can be the guy that says "I'm Pissed"(Stanton)

Edited by Rey, 14 November 2012 - 03:19 PM.

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#63 Rey

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

I'm not sure that is true, at least to start the year. They need to give D'Arnaud some time to heal and get his game back IMHO. You could be correct though as they now have Wilson and Buck on the bench.

I do think the Jays are looking for a couple of more pieces, probably a SP and a LH bat. I wouldn't be shocked if they actually sign a pitcher and move Buerlhe for a bat.


I don't think they can afford to move Buerle. Sure he has an expensive contract, but the jays need a inning eater. Especially with the injury risk(Morrow and Johnson) and inconsistency of Romero.

Edited by Rey, 14 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.

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#64 theminister

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

I don't think they can afford to move Buerle. Sure he has an expensive contract, but the jays need a inning eater. Especially with the injury risk on most of the guys.


Yeah, who knows? AA probably has some other big plans but, as I said in my long post, the Jays don't really need to do much else and still compete for the AL East. However, I don't think the Jays are done yet.

I agree, injuries are the only thing that might change the dynamics of this deal. Right now though this trade also gives the team time to let their other players heal.

X10000 worse for Miami.

More like.

Whitney(Buerhle)
Doan(Reyes)
Hanzal(Johnson)
Boedker(Bonaficio)
Torres(Buck)


Fair enough. I was just trying to give some perspective. It's shocking how massively one-sided this deal is for the next couple of seasons.
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#65 Pears

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

I don't follow baseball much, but the vibe thats going around is that the Blue Jays royally bent Miami over in this trade?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#66 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

I predict they might actually be good enough to be a .500 team next season.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 14 November 2012 - 05:01 PM.

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#67 theminister

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

I don't follow baseball much, but the vibe thats going around is that the Blue Jays royally bent Miami over in this trade?


yes, without so much as a reach around.

Edited by theminister, 14 November 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#68 whysoserious

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

WOW! What a trade!
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#69 theminister

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

Further to my post, I do think the Jays should go after Melky Cabrera and Shaun Marcum.

Cabrera is a great defensive switch hitter who would be perfect for the 2 spot behind Reyes. I don't have that much concern about the steroid issue as I think he can hit .290 with 55 extra base hits and 20 SB. This would give the Jays the ability to keep one or both of Gose and Sierra in AAA for the bulk of the season.

Marcum has shown interest in returning apparently and is a fairly dependable #4 or better.

If they can get both of these guys I'd certainly be more open to trading Romero for a 1B. If the team budget allows for all three players then all the better. Cabrera and Marcum might both be cheaper than expected.

Edited by theminister, 14 November 2012 - 05:56 PM.

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#70 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

for those non-basball fans who don't understand why this is such a great trade for the Jays...

It's the equivalent of this in the hockey world:

To Van:

Doan (Buerlhe)
Yandle (Johnson)
Vrbata (Reyes)
Chipchura (Bonaficio)
Bissonette (Buck)

To Pho:

Ballard (Escobar)
Raymond (Alvarez)
Weise (Mathis)
Schroeder (Hechavaria)
Connauton (Nicolino)
Corrado (Marinsick)
Mallet (DeSclafani)


Thanks! Was gonna tweet Pierre LeBrun or something and ask what this would be (approx.) equivalent too in the hockey world. Or, as equivalent as you can get considering the difference in sports...using your comparison, I'm not sure Miami (PHO) got screwed over as bad as everyone says...


ALSO: Bonifacio has been one of my favorite players, since he scored that inside the parker a couple years ago. Great deal for the Jays.
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#71 Gally

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

Trade under review by league :(
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#72 Phil_314

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

Trade under review by league :(


There shouldn't be a case for revoking this deal IMO, they let the Boston - Dodgers trade go through (also three star-caliber players in Beckett, Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, plus a utility guy in Punto for Loney and four prospects) so on what basis could they possibly accept that firesale and reject this one? If anything that one was even more one-sided since the Sox got ONE, count it ONE average player (Loney ~ Escobar?) for three stars (granted, Crawford was injured and Beckett was slumping but A-Gon alone could've probably gotten a decent return) while the rest of the guys were prospects, whereas in this one the Marlins got two roster players in Alvarez and Hechavarria, plus three prospects.

Edited by g@m3b0i, 15 November 2012 - 07:57 PM.

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Jesus LOVES YOU!
2012, meet Matthew 24:36-47!

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#73 Tony Romo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

There shouldn't be a case for revoking this deal IMO, they let the Boston - Dodgers trade go through (also three star-caliber players in Beckett, Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, plus a utility guy in Punto for Loney and four prospects) so on what basis could they possibly accept that firesale and reject this one? If anything that one was even more one-sided since the Sox got ONE, count it ONE average player (Loney ~ Escobar?) for three stars (granted, Crawford was injured and Beckett was slumping but A-Gon alone could've probably gotten a decent return) while the rest of the guys were prospects, whereas in this one the Marlins got two roster players in Alvarez and Hechavarria, plus three prospects.

But Boston's a popular team, with fan support and money
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#74 Phil_314

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

But Boston's a popular team, with fan support and money


Well I'm not sure about their popularity, but it's not like the Marlins didn't have (taxpayers') money in hand; otherwise how did they land Reyes, Buerhle and Bell AND build their new stadium?
Funny how just earlier on when they made those splashes it looked like their return to prominence, but now in a newspaper they were compared basically as an AAA team, giving up their resources to the "major league" teams (sounded like all those salary-shedding trades the Panthers made with Vancouver to me (of course this time around it's pretty obvious that the Jays didn't get crap!))
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John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Jesus LOVES YOU!
2012, meet Matthew 24:36-47!

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


#75 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

This is what the Blue Jays lineup will probably look like, if the signing of Cabrera is finalized.

SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis

SP Mark Buehrle
SP Josh Johnson
SP Brandon Morrow
SP Ricky Romero
SP J.A. Happ
CL Casey Janssen/Sergio Santos
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Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


#76 burebure84

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

This is what the Blue Jays lineup will probably look like, if the signing of Cabrera is finalized.

SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis

SP Mark Buehrle
SP Josh Johnson
SP Brandon Morrow
SP Ricky Romero
SP J.A. Happ
CL Casey Janssen/Sergio Santos


That lineup looks so dirty.... and that's okay with me. Can't wait until the Marlins trade gets finalized.
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#77 g_bassi13

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Further to my post, I do think the Jays should go after Melky Cabrera and Shaun Marcum.

Cabrera is a great defensive switch hitter who would be perfect for the 2 spot behind Reyes. I don't have that much concern about the steroid issue as I think he can hit .290 with 55 extra base hits and 20 SB. This would give the Jays the ability to keep one or both of Gose and Sierra in AAA for the bulk of the season.

Marcum has shown interest in returning apparently and is a fairly dependable #4 or better.

If they can get both of these guys I'd certainly be more open to trading Romero for a 1B. If the team budget allows for all three players then all the better. Cabrera and Marcum might both be cheaper than expected.


So yeah, that just happened. And for cheap too. Maybe they have another major ace up their sleeve still.
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#78 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:40 PM

So yeah, that just happened. And for cheap too. Maybe they have another major ace up their sleeve still.


Couldn't argue with having another ace, especially bringing back someone like a Doc Holiday, who knows maybe he would like to come back seeing how now this team can be a contender something they never were able to accomplish when Doc was here and to why he wanted to leave. Even if they don't go after another ace I'd be ok with that, but I wouldn't mind them going after a couple good mid relief pitchers, and then the roster would be complete IMO. Oh and also getting a new Manager lol.
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Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


#79 theminister

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

This is what the Blue Jays lineup will probably look like, if the signing of Cabrera is finalized.

SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis

SP Mark Buehrle
SP Josh Johnson
SP Brandon Morrow
SP Ricky Romero
SP J.A. Happ
CL Casey Janssen/Sergio Santos


Slight difference of opinion. I don't think they'll have Lawrie that high unless he explodes which he might. He still isn't patient enough to be trusted at the top of the lineup. The team will probably want to have a decent L-R-L spread in the rest of order since their 3-4 are both righties.

SS - Reyes
LF - Cabrera
RF - Bautista
DH - Encarnacion
CF - Rasmus / Lind
3B - Lawrie
1B - Lind / Rasmus
C - Arencibia (unless traded)
2B - Izturis.

So yeah, that just happened. And for cheap too. Maybe they have another major ace up their sleeve still.


Arencibia might very well get moved as Rey had said. After thus signing it makes even more sense now. They still have Buck and Wilson on the roster with D'Arnaud ready to come up.

Edited by theminister, 16 November 2012 - 03:01 PM.

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#80 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

That lineup looks so dirty.... and that's okay with me. Can't wait until the Marlins trade gets finalized.


Ya it does look pretty sick, and regards to the Marlins trade being finalized I was reading a report about it and how Bud was saying, yes he understand how Florida is upset and of course Toronto is happy. Also that he believes Marlins are getting some good young prospects in return, he said if it was just cash trades it would be a different story, but since that is not the case and the Marlins are getting young prospect talent, that it will help their team out in the future. I really got the impression from the article that Bud is for the trade and feels like it is a good trade for both teams, and I feel it will be finalized very soon.


“I’ve talked to two baseball people — I have a lot of people that I check with and talk to — who have, actually, an interesting view on the trade.” Selig said at an airport hotel just outside of Chicago. “They think that (Miami), in terms of young players, did very well. These are two independent baseball people. These are not chefs in these kitchens here.

“So I want to think about all of it and I want to review everything. I want to be my usual painstaking, cautious, slow, conservative self in analyzing it. . . . There’s a lot of variables here.”


Edited by ChuckNORRIS4Cup, 16 November 2012 - 02:53 PM.

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Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


#81 theminister

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

So I wonder what a Lind, Arencibia ++ package could get them?
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#82 Tony Romo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

I am so pumped to be a jays fan this week!
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#83 g_bassi13

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

So I wonder what a Lind, Arencibia ++ package could get them?


This is the same kind of deal I was thinking about. They could use an upgrade of sorts over Lind at 1B, whether that be from the trade itself, or through free agency.
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#84 nuckin_futz

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

Geez who wouldn't want to manage the Jays now? Guys must be lining up to get an interview.
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#85 Strawberries

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

AL east is STACKED
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#86 Horny Manatee

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

Jays will start off well then they'll get a bunch of injuries and the season will be over.

Quote me, kids.
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#87 Bork Laser

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

This is the same kind of deal I was thinking about. They could use an upgrade of sorts over Lind at 1B, whether that be from the trade itself, or through free agency.

I don't know about an upgrade, Jays already had Encarnacion playing 1st near the end of the season. But then again, an upgrade could have Encarnacion playing DH again which I won't mind.
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#88 sirensong87

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

I don't know about an upgrade, Jays already had Encarnacion playing 1st near the end of the season. But then again, an upgrade could have Encarnacion playing DH again which I won't mind.


Getting someone like Konerko and some kids to restock the cupboards a bit would be a nice move. Him and EE can split time at 1st and DH and it gives you another legit power bat behind JoeyBats and EE.

Lind Arencibia for Konerko and a prospect or 2.

Even as they stand now tho...

Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Rasmus
Lawrie
Lind
Arencibia
Izturis

Thats a deep and very talented line up. Tho more reliable pop out of the #5 spot would be the area to address. But Lawrie Rasmus and Lind all have more than enough talent to provide that its just a question of consistency.

I know alot of people have Bonifacio at 2nd and in the #2, but he's not nearly good enough in the field to be an everyday player. And doesnt hit for enough avg or have the OB% to play the #2 spot. Him and Rajai Davis will bring alot of flash off the bench late in games tho and can spot start. There is an absurb amount of speed on the roster now too.

Would like to see one more starter added as well, bringing Marcum back would be a nice pick up. Dont think there will be anymore big name additions lol.

Johnson
Romero
Morrow
Buehrle
Marcum

Thats a pretty sick rotation. Keeps the lefties split up so teams dont see them in back to back games.
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#89 theminister

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

This is the same kind of deal I was thinking about. They could use an upgrade of sorts over Lind at 1B, whether that be from the trade itself, or through free agency.


I would assume you mean Laroche through FA.

In a trade I'd love to try and get Morneau. The Twins don't need a catcher with Mauer so I don't know what that would take. However, if the money is there, he'd be a great insert at #4 in the order.
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#90 g_bassi13

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

I would assume you mean Laroche through FA.

In a trade I'd love to try and get Morneau. The Twins don't need a catcher with Mauer so I don't know what that would take. However, if the money is there, he'd be a great insert at #4 in the order.


Yeah, I was thinking Laroche. Morneau would be nice as well, to add a Canadian star into the mix of things. There'd likely be a major asset going the other way though, that we may not be wanting to give up. I don't know who that'd be, but it makes for an interesting thought.

I don't know about an upgrade, Jays already had Encarnacion playing 1st near the end of the season. But then again, an upgrade could have Encarnacion playing DH again which I won't mind.


I think preferably you have Encarnacion slotted in as a DH. That said, if they pick up another major bat to put in that slot, and position Encarnacion back to 1B, that wouldn't be the worst thing either.
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