Canucks making critical mistakes in hindsight?

[Smashian Kassian]

I relate Semin signing in Carolina to us signing Demitra a few years ago, or Sundin. Those signings also made us a competitive team before we were ready to be, and then lent credibility to us as a destination for players in the years that followed.

They are building a nice young team and a veteran like Semin with the ability to make others better, even if expensive, can help carry their young guns through till they are ready to be stars.

Great signing for Washington, but we can no longer be interested at that price.

We need to be like Detroit; getting older veterans (Bertuzzi, Chelios, Larry Murphy, etc, etc, etc...) who have 1st line talent but their bodies cant do it anymore. So they sign for discounts to extend their career and play key support roles on a winner.

[nuck nit]

You don't know that,Kassian, so that is speculation and hearsay.

However,I worked in horrendous jobs for the pay so who can blame him ,even if it is true?

As for Kassian's little dust up,I find that situations like these are but incidents of youth that can help one mature.

[LeanBeef]

Torres wanted to re-sign.. he wanted alittle raise from the 1m he got and MG said no you can screw off lol. Instead he signed some useless players like Bitz, Pinozotto and Duco to replace Torre's grit.

The Torres/Lappy/Hansen line was one of our best line in our playoff run and was an impact player for us both good and bad. MG underestimated how important role player he was.

[nuck nit]

Somewhat true, we actually offered him(Torres) 1.7 mil but he opted to go for less money (1 mil) but a longer contract with Phoenix.

[nuck nit]

Although Demitra wasn't paid 7 Million, he wasn't even paid all that well at all, Semin just went to Carolina because they offered the money.

[Smashian Kassian]

$4 million per year for a 34 and 35 year old aging veteran (God rest his soul,just talking hockey $$ here).

23 G,46 A for $8,000,000.00.

Yes,he was injured in his second and last contract year,but it is what it is.

Pavol was a Gillis client and there was lots of speculation on the web that when he signed he was being given a gift contract.

Pavol was well paid and even over paid.

[Baggins]

Are you sure it was 4 Mill? Alright nvm I thaught it was 2 I was wrong then.

But if you are comparing the 2 and what they bring, Demitra brings more character and is a better teammate and leader.

This is all beside the original point though.

[nuck nit]

Pavol was paid $4 million in 2008 -9 and in 2009-10.

Only Sundin,Bieksa and Luongo were paid more than Pavol and Pavol's cap hit was the second amongst skaters,behind Sundin in 08/09.

In his second year the Sedins were granted their contracts ,otherwise Pavol would have been the highest paid Canucks skater.

The Black Hawks won the cup that year.The only Chicago forward to make more than Pavol was Marion Hossa.

In 2008-2009 when Pittsburgh won the cup the only forwards that earned more than Pavol were Crosby and Guerin.

Pavol's 18 year professional career in North America came to an end.It began as a 19 year old Senator and ended as a 36 year old Canuck.

RIP ,Pavol.

[Baggins]

Pavol was paid $4 million in 2008 -9 and in 2009-10.

Only Sundin,Bieksa and Luongo were paid more than Pavol and Pavol's cap hit was the second amongst skaters,behind Sundin in 08/09.

In his second year the Sedins were granted their contracts ,otherwise Pavol would have been the highest paid Canucks skater.

The Black Hawks won the cup that year.The only Chicago forward to make more than Pavol was Marion Hossa.

In 2008-2009 when Pittsburgh won the cup the only forwards that earned more than Pavol were Crosby and Guerin.

Pavol's 18 year professional career in North America came to an end.It began as a 19 year old Senator and ended as a 36 year old Canuck.

RIP ,Pavol.

[Smashian Kassian]

Bang on, great post. I would've loved to see the Canucks sign Semin. Could well turn out to be the signing of the summer. A guy with that level of talent is very, very rare. People question his character because he hasn't performed well in the playoffs. Well, guess what; the exact same thing was said about the Sedin's until they were roughly 28/29 years old. "Shy away when it counts, not clutch performers", etc. You can't hold back talent forever.

And on the issue of "character", what do you think of Alex Burrows'? The hair-pulling, finger-biter himself? Or what about Kesler, voted as the league's biggest diver? And when has Gillis shown a reluctance to sign guys of questionable character? Shane O'Brien, Mike Duco...?

EDIT: how about the character of Zack Kassian?

Following the Memorial Cup win, Kassian was arrested after an altercation at a bar in Downtown Windsor on May 30, 2010. Charged with assault, he reached an agreement several months later, in October 2010. The charge was dropped in exchange for 25 hours of community service, a $500 donation to charity and payment for the victim's dental work.^[12]Had he been convicted, Kassian would have been ineligible to cross the border into the United States,^{[notes 1]} which would have conflicted with his hockey career.

[SEAN HARNETT]

Yep, because then you just over paid for Bieksa 1 year later.

I love the short-term memories of Canuck fans. Bieksa's been as hot-and-cold as anybody on this team, year-by-year. Twice he's been the whipping boy and I would venture a guess that that trend will continue.

I far would've rather the Canucks invested in Ehrhoff, due to the scarcity of his skillset.

[nuck nit]

Semin's character isn't questioned because he doesn't preform in the playoffs (Which isn't even true his playoffs stats are actually not bad) it's because he is has a bad attitude and a terrible work ethic. I'm a fan of his but I am very glad we didn't sign him myself., especially at 7 Million which would have handicapped the possibility of us being able to make any other moves to add complementary pieces like we have in the past.

And yes King, Burrow's has terrible character. Rising up from the ECHL as a 24 year old, never giving up oon his dream shows he has no character. And Kesler one of our best leaders, one of our hardest workers definetly has character issue's.

And as for ZK, that was stupid but that's not a character issue, and the proof is that he took his mistake and learned from it, learned how to be a professional and is working extremely hard and has worked extremely hard to get better.

Do you know what character issue's are? Cause I don't see anyone on our team that has them.

[Smashian Kassian]

Both Kesler and Burrows have been dogged with 'character' issues for years.

As for Semin,I found that very talented players sometimes look like they are not even trying and they outperform everyone around them.

If Slava Malamud, a Foreign Correspondent for Sport-Express, Russia's sports daily and an NHL.com contributor, is to be believed, CSKA has submitted a pretty huge standing offer to lure him back home. According to Malamud, "There are unconfirmed reports that CSKA's offer to Semin stands at 3 years, $30 million."

Now, again, these are just rumours, but even if the numbers aren't quite that high, it's a safe bet that Semin is being offered more to play in the KHL than he's going to get in the NHL.

It seems to me that Semin's waiting for the right NHL deal, which strikes me as the sort of thing a player who wants to play in the NHL would do. But that's just me.

The contract will inevitably be for decent money, too, but there's no way it's going to be what the KHL is reportedly offering, and that's noteworthy. If Semin stays in North America and leaves money -- potentially a lot of it -- on the table to do so, I think we need to stop speculating on whether or not he wants to be here.

http://sports.yahoo....27442--nhl.html

[Vancanwincup]

The arguement about Schultz 1.5 points per game ( which is no doubt unbelievable) should be argued based on whether or not he could do the same thing on a weak Wolves team without the elite talent of RNH and Hall.

I pretty sure it is safe to say Schultz would have a hard time putting up 1/3 the numbers on the Wolves, therefore, the talk would be about how Schultz is not as good as his hype.

[Canuck Surfer]

Meh; Demitra and Semin both were considered on the decline (for different reasons) and scored 54 points the year prior. Sure it could be presumed Semin has more of his career to resurrect. I think Sundin and Demitra were lured by more money than they could get elsewhere. But Semin apparently signed because he has something to prove; you might be right? It is pointed somewhere in this thread that he had, and still has a larger $30 mill, three year offer available in the KHL.

Why they signed, however, is not material to my argument at all. We did not sign Shea Weber; we overpaid second tier free agents to help elevate our young teams. Thats exactly what Carolina is doing. As much as they were second tier, they added some talent and veteran experience to otherwise young exciting teams still learning to punch up to their weight. While it was expensive, it worked for us and most likely will for Carolina as well?

And Semin for 1 year is a lot less risk than many contracts that have been offered recently. If Semin accomplishes proving his point in just 1 year; good on Carolina.

The difference is that Semin has far more to gain in Carolina than either Demitra or Sundin did when they signed with us. Demitra signed with us as a 34 year-old; Sundin was 37. Both guys obviously at the tail ends of their careers.

Semin is only 28.

[King of the ES]

The arguement about Schultz 1.5 points per game ( which is no doubt unbelievable) should be argued based on whether or not he could do the same thing on a weak Wolves team without the elite talent of RNH and Hall.

I pretty sure it is safe to say Schultz would have a hard time putting up 1/3 the numbers on the Wolves, therefore, the talk would be about how Schultz is not as good as his hype.

[laxgoalie]

The problem with this argument is that Schultz isn't "playing alongside elite talent", he is leading them.

Tied with Eberle for lead in points, has almost twice as many goals as Taylor Hall. Oh, leads the team in +/-, too, and only has 6 PIM.

Deny all you want, but this kid's future is insanely bright, and he's twice the prospect as anyone that we've got.

[Vancanwincup]

The problem with this argument is that Schultz isn't "playing alongside elite talent", he is leading them.

Tied with Eberle for lead in points, has almost twice as many goals as Taylor Hall. Oh, leads the team in +/-, too, and only has 6 PIM.

Deny all you want, but this kid's future is insanely bright, and he's twice the prospect as anyone that we've got.

[oldnews]

The difference is that Semin has far more to gain in Carolina than either Demitra or Sundin did when they signed with us. Demitra signed with us as a 34 year-old; Sundin was 37. Both guys obviously at the tail ends of their careers.

Semin is only 28.

[oldnews]

Sad to see this sh!t being spoken of Demitra here. Great signing by Gillis.

768 points in 847 career NHL games - lifetime +124.

LOL at the idea that 53 points in 69 games as a Canuck in 2008/9 (.77 ppg) is the declining production of an old man - entirely consistent with what he had done for the previous decade.

10 points in 7 games for Slovakia at the 2010 Olympics.

60 points in 54 games in the KHL before tragically losing his life.

Outstanding, intelligent NHL player from start to finish.

Not a minute of it overpaid.