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Tentative Agreement Reached.


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#361 poetica

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

Found another article at ESPN that says teams keep both half the cap hit and half the salary.

RETAINING SALARY IN TRADES
This was Brian Burke’s baby, an idea he pushed for years at GM meetings. Under the old CBA, teams could not absorb any part of a salary from a player they were trading -- unlike baseball for example.

But in this new agreement, teams will be able to do that.

Here are the main parameters of the rule: A club cannot absorb more than 50 percent of the players’ annual cap hit/salary in any trade. Any NHL club can only have up to three contracts on their payroll in which the contract was traded away under the retaining salary proviso. Also, only up to 15 percent of your upper limit cap amount can be used up by the money you have retained in trades.

For example, let’s say the Maple Leafs want to trade little-used blueliner Mike Komisarek and his $4.5-million cap hit ($3.5 million salary this year) to the New York Islanders (hypothetically). The Leafs could retain half the cap hit -- $2.25 million -- and half the salary -- $1.75 million -- in order to facilitate the deal. The Islanders would pay him the other half. This should facilitate more trades around the league, no question.

Source: http://espn.go.com/b...ore-cba-details
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#362 WHL rocks

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

In fairness, that was the only part I actually quoted in my post. :)


relax. Neither I nor you wrote the articles. :)
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#363 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

So did anyone figure out if this helps us or hurts us in a trade.

There's no way we would wanna keep half of Luongo's cap hit. That wouldn't make sense. The only way it would help us is if we could trade his whole cap hit, but pay half of his salary.
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#364 poetica

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:10 PM

relax. Neither I nor you wrote the articles. :)


Wasn't implying we had. You were just being very specific about which part of that article was valid, noting that in the article the author included information he then said was out of date. However, I was simply noting that I only included the information the author said was the most up-to-date in my quote, so I would assume Elvis was referring to that part, and not the other part you were taking exception to. I was just clarifying things. So, you know, take your own advice and relax. :)
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#365 poetica

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

As far as I've been able to gather cap space and salary are tied. A team can NOT keep cap space only, or vise versa a team can NOT retain salary only.

What I'm thinking as circumvention loophole GM's might look at is since you are allowed to sign your player for 8 years vs 7 for other teams UFA a player, his current team and prospective team may all agree to sign a player to 8 years and trade him to where he wants to go.


Yeah, the ESPN article seems to indicate that teams keep both cap hit and salary. So, like I said before, it seems to only be useful for moving high pay players to low rent markets. Basically, voluntary welfare.

Sorry I misunderstood your point about circumvention. I could definitely see teams working out deals behind closed doors to re-sign players other teams want to lock up and then trade them immediately after, unless there's some sort of rule in the new CBA to prevent that, such as requiring teams keep a newly signed player for X amount of time. However, the fact that it's only a 1-year difference might make that far more uncommon than it might have otherwise been with the 2-year spread the NHL previously wanted. I'm just not sure how much only one extra year will really buy a team in terms of trade value. I actually wonder if realizing that themselves is why the NHL changed the re-signing bonus to only a year.
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#366 WHL rocks

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

So did anyone figure out if this helps us or hurts us in a trade.

There's no way we would wanna keep half of Luongo's cap hit. That wouldn't make sense. The only way it would help us is if we could trade his whole cap hit, but pay half of his salary.


I don't think this rule affects Luongo's potential trade at all.

I think this rule could be used by the NYR in getting a trade done for Wade Redden. With the new CBA Wade Redden can no longer be buried in the minors. His contract will count toward the NYR cap. What they may do is eat part of the salary and cap and trade Redden. Say NYI are willing to take Redden at $4 mill salary, NYR could eat the balance of Redden's contract and Cap above $4 mill.
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#367 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

I don't think this rule affects Luongo's potential trade at all.

I think this rule could be used by the NYR in getting a trade done for Wade Redden. With the new CBA Wade Redden can no longer be buried in the minors. His contract will count toward the NYR cap. What they may do is eat part of the salary and cap and trade Redden. Say NYI are willing to take Redden at $4 mill salary, NYR could eat the balance of Redden's contract and Cap above $4 mill.


So a team can retain half of a players salary and cap? Is that the max percentage?

So lets say if the Leafs wanted to trade Komisarek in a Luongo deal. Could they retain half of his cap hit and salary, and make it so we get him for 2.25 mil?
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#368 WHL rocks

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, the ESPN article seems to indicate that teams keep both cap hit and salary. So, like I said before, it seems to only be useful for moving high pay players to low rent markets. Basically, voluntary welfare.


Yeah, it's a way of revenue sharing isn't it? A smaller market team could have a higher end player if his team had a change of plans. Redden could help several teams in the league, now the Rags will do something with him because of another rule in the new CBA which counts Redden's cap hit against the Rags payroll.

Now the Isles or Jackets could trade for Redden. Before the only way was for Rags to put Redden on re entry waivers and another team would claim him but the Rags would take 50% of cap and salary, not the Rags could negotiate better terms directly with an interested team.

Sorry I misunderstood your point about circumvention. I could definitely see teams working out deals behind closed doors to re-sign players other teams want to lock up and then trade them immediately after, unless there's some sort of rule in the new CBA to prevent that, such as requiring teams keep a newly signed player for X amount of time. However, the fact that it's only a 1-year difference might make that far more uncommon than it might have otherwise been with the 2-year spread the NHL previously wanted. I'm just not sure how much only one extra year will really buy a team in terms of trade value. I actually wonder if realizing that themselves is why the NHL changed the re-signing bonus to only a year.

Perhaps you are right. But only thing I would say is it would not need be done behind closed doors.
Edit: Unless there is a specific rule against sign and trade, which has not been made public yer.

Edited by WHL rocks, 08 January 2013 - 04:40 PM.

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#369 WHL rocks

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

So a team can retain half of a players salary and cap? Is that the max percentage?

So lets say if the Leafs wanted to trade Komisarek in a Luongo deal. Could they retain half of his cap hit and salary, and make it so we get him for 2.25 mil?


Yes you are correct with the example.

The max percentage is 50% and only top 15% of Vancouver's cap max could be devoted to such contract. Which is quite a lot, over $9 mill with cap at $64 mill.
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#370 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:38 PM

Hmm, Komisarek looks alot more attractive at 2.25. Maybe he could be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Ballard Komisarek

Tanev, Alberts

That would pretty much round out our D, and give us enough depth to counter injuries.
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#371 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

Found another article at ESPN that says teams keep both half the cap hit and half the salary.


Source: http://espn.go.com/b...ore-cba-details

Granted I'm not having the best day today for concentration and comprehension, but then the wording of this one has both cap hit and salary noted as relating to the 50%, where others say contract, and others still say only salary. If both are options at 50% versus just one, can they be done independently or do they have to be linked? That's become a part of the discussion this page and is some of the content I'm finding is not so clear yet.

The 15% is a secondary qualifier along with the 3 max contracts using that clause at one time just to make sure all the cap sharing is kept within a certain amount of whatever the cap is at the time.
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#372 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

@reporterchris
The NHL and NHLPA are still working on a memorandum of understanding. There's a chance it gets done tonight.
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#373 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

The sooner that gets out, the sooner the players can vote and the CBA becomes official.
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#374 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:02 PM

@David_Strehle
Seravalli saying #Flyers could open 2013 schedule with home & home with #Penguins. That's league's way of trying to instantly get fans back.

Awesome!
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#375 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

@andystrickland
NHLPA sources say ratification process may not concludeuntil Saturday which means training camps wouldn't open until Sunday

Edited by -Vintage Canuck-, 08 January 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#376 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

^^ Nice.

I could see home and homes being alot more common this season. I bet the Canucks start the season off with a home and home against the Flames.
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#377 poetica

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

Granted I'm not having the best day today for concentration and comprehension, but then the wording of this one has both cap hit and salary noted as relating to the 50%, where others say contract, and others still say only salary. If both are options at 50% versus just one, can they be done independently or do they have to be linked? That's become a part of the discussion this page and is some of the content I'm finding is not so clear yet.

The 15% is a secondary qualifier along with the 3 max contracts using that clause at one time just to make sure all the cap sharing is kept within a certain amount of whatever the cap is at the time.


Good points. I think we'll just have to wait for more definitive information. I guess if there's one thing we're practiced in lately it's patience.
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#378 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Here's a wild one after speculation about Russian players staying overseas:

@IgorKleyner KHL pres makes case existing NHL contracts may not be binding because under new CBA, thus players may walk
@slavamalamud And more Medvedev. "Our league will act according to our own and international rules. If players decide to stay, we will help them."


Geez and after I'd heard a report from the KHL that they'd abide by the previous agreement, that's a big turnaround. No time like the present if they're going to do that though, eh? This might be the closest we'll get to an apocolypse/Red Dawn reversal, with the Russians defecting from the NHL to go to the KHL.
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#379 Kyosama

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

http://www.winnipegf...-186099442.html

Jets first game Jan 19th at 1:30 against Ottawa. I imagine that's local time.
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#380 theminister

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

If the retained/traded cap hit does not equal the same in salary, regardless of what percentage is agreed upon, then that is the most convoluted and ridiculous rule I've ever heard of.... for anything.
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#381 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

If the retained/traded cap hit does not equal the same in salary, regardless of what percentage is agreed upon, then that is the most convoluted and ridiculous rule I've ever heard of.... for anything.

I see the bonuses for doing so, but man does it make things way more complex than they need to be, as you've said.
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#382 Primus099

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:50 AM

everyone knows the Lockout still isn't officially over yet right? the CBA still has to be ratified, but unless both sides go full retard it should be
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#383 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:03 AM

‏@SpectorsHockey
Looks like the 2013 Stanley Cup playoffs could begin in late-April, ending around June 25 at the latest.
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#384 poetica

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

Perhaps you are right. But only thing I would say is it would not need be done behind closed doors.
Edit: Unless there is a specific rule against sign and trade, which has not been made public yer.


I would assume there would be a rule forbidding it simply because otherwise what's the point of giving teams a year bonus when re-signing their own players if that bonus can just be bought by another team as part of a trade. It's just dishonest to call that a "re-signing" if they don't intend to keep the player. That being said, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a specific rule wasn't included or if, rule or not, the NHL claimed to be "shocked" that it happens and then points to it as part of what's "broken" and needs to be fixed with another lockout next CBA.

Let's hope common sense sneaked into the room.
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#385 elvis15

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

I would assume there would be a rule forbidding it simply because otherwise what's the point of giving teams a year bonus when re-signing their own players if that bonus can just be bought by another team as part of a trade. It's just dishonest to call that a "re-signing" if they don't intend to keep the player. That being said, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a specific rule wasn't included or if, rule or not, the NHL claimed to be "shocked" that it happens and then points to it as part of what's "broken" and needs to be fixed with another lockout next CBA.

Let's hope common sense sneaked into the room.

That's an interesting point, where a clause for a player who's received a signing bonus could not be traded for a year would be very preventative. Otherwise we could see what you're suggesting, sign someone with 90% of their salary in a signing bonus only to trade them at the deadline (or sooner in a sign and trade) and the bonus would have already been paid on July 1 by the original team. Then the new team just has the cap hit, and minimal real money cost for that year.
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#386 poetica

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

That's an interesting point, where a clause for a player who's received a signing bonus could not be traded for a year would be very preventative. Otherwise we could see what you're suggesting, sign someone with 90% of their salary in a signing bonus only to trade them at the deadline (or sooner in a sign and trade) and the bonus would have already been paid on July 1 by the original team. Then the new team just has the cap hit, and minimal real money cost for that year.


You know, I hadn't actually considered the signing bonus issue as part of it but I could absolutely see it being a major factor. Although, I'm not sure how bonuses will be treated in the new CBA. I would be a bit surprised to not see some changes in that regard. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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#387 theminister

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

Maybe someone can answer a question for me?

Why was the salary cap officially set at $60 mil for this season but that they are allowing them to spend up to $70.2 mil?

What is the reason for doing this?
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#388 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: NHL governor inside the room via text: ``It's been ratified.''
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#389 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

owner ratified 30-0
season starts jan 19
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#390 Heretic

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Why are the players waiting????

The players aren't expected to start their own ratification vote until Friday.
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