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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2611 D-Money

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:31 AM

welcome couturier :towel:


Yeah...no.

The problem in Philly isn't Bryzgalov - at least, not to the point where they'd buy him out. They have other pressing problems.

I think their problems stem from their D. Timonen is the only reliable guy at kickstarting offense from his own zone - let alone getting the puck out. They miss Carle's and Meszaros' puckmoving ability. Brayden Coburn leads the league in giveaways with 16 already, and Luke Schenn is 9th with 13. Those guys are supposed to be defensively sound.

The entire Philadelphia defense corps has a total of 57 giveaways. Compare that with our supposedly turnover-happy guys in Vancouver, who have 35.

Edited by D-Money, 12 February 2013 - 11:35 AM.

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#2612 TmanVan

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:38 AM

Damien Cox might just be the dumbest a$$ person making a living to speak publicly about hockey - and that's saying a lot coming from a place where Tony Gallagher and Jason Botchford can be read and heard on a regular basis.

Damien Cox @DamoSpin

You can blame the Leafs for many, many things. How anyone can blame them for Kadri showing up to camp out of shape is beyond me.
8:16 PM - 28 Sep 12

Now Cox is on the Kadri wagon again. For an 'insider/expert', Cox sure is subject to changes in the weather.

Damien Cox: "You couldn't even do Kadri-for-Luongo straight up now. Kadri for Cory Schneider, maybe."

Ahahaha! Priceless. Apparently Kadri is now priceless lol.

Hey, you guys need Kadri way, way, way, way more than the Canucks do - so do us all a favour and don't use the words Luongo and Kadri in the same sentence anymore.
And the timing of talking that s#!t about Luongo couldn't have turned out to be dumber, could it?


If Jordan Schroeder gets a couple more goals and passes Kadri and his total of 3 we could be like Schroeder is clearly superior player, I wouldn't trade him even for Kadri and 2 firsts! That's about on par with how stupid Cox is.
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#2613 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:43 AM

just turned on hockey central at noon on sportsnet1 and caught the very end of a gillis interview.. i didnt hear much but after they were saying they got some good insight and love talking to mike. i checked the listings and its on again on sportsnet pacific and west at 2.

only part i heard was they asked him if there was still a mystery team involved and gillis said "you would be surprised the amount of interest we have in our goalies"

he also said something about being happy with the team right now and they wont make a move and disrupt what they have right now unless it significantly improves the team.

I'll try to watch it again at 2 and give a better summary

edit: i think this is it http://www.sportsnet...entral_at_noon/

Edited by thad, 12 February 2013 - 11:49 AM.

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#2614 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

Ok; lets think this through. Multiple choice might help?

Option A Lou is thrilled with everything so he wants out?

Option B His sense of manhood is challenged by being sat in favour of another goalie, so he wants out?

I'm going with B... And I call it pouting!

I suppose your entitled to your own perception of things.


And thanks D Money! I kacked myself laughing!

Posted Image

That's irrelevant to thew conversation. You said he was "pouting". I challenged to to provide some evidence, which you have been unable to do.

Now you're attempting to deflect the debate into a different area to try and support your baseless claim.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 12 February 2013 - 11:47 AM.

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#2615 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

Yeah...no.

The problem in Philly isn't Bryzgalov - at least, not to the point where they'd buy him out. They have other pressing problems.

I think their problems stem from their D. Timonen is the only reliable guy at kickstarting offense from his own zone - let alone getting the puck out. They miss Carle's and Meszaros' puckmoving ability. Brayden Coburn leads the league in giveaways with 16 already, and Luke Schenn is 9th with 13. Those guys are supposed to be defensively sound.

The entire Philadelphia defense corps has a total of 57 giveaways. Compare that with our supposedly turnover-happy guys in Vancouver, who have 35.


I think Philly also has the problem that beyond their shutdown centers - Talbot and Couturier - they have a gaggle of forwards who aren't exactly a supporting cast for their blueline - they just play like a team with separate units - frustrating and inconsistent. The way the Flyers play hockey would drive AV absolutely mad.
I agree with you though - buying out Bryz is not realistic - he's a serviceable NHLer, just not what a contender might want to run with. I don't think he's an impossible move - they signed him as a UFA - there really is no loss if they moved him on the cheap, but how much they'd have to pay for an upgrade would hurt. They have a lot of youth on the roster, but their prospect pool is pretty thin.

Edited by oldnews, 12 February 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#2616 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

Option B) His sense of manhood is challenged by being sat in favour of another goalie, so he wants out?

I'm going with B... And I call it pouting!


Call it whatever you want - it looks like you're full of crap though.

Edited by oldnews, 12 February 2013 - 11:48 AM.

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#2617 Noheart

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:59 AM

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "You talk to general managers all the time... You'd be surprised the number of teams that have inquired about our goalies." Plural.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis on a Luongo buyout: "Absolutely not." Never even discussed.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "Every team you're talking to about a potential trade includes a player you might not want or manages their cap situation as well."

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: Time to do something with goalie situation will be the summer.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "Doing the right thing by the two guys changes during the off-season."

@SNHockeyCentral: Mike Gillis: "If there wasn't a deal for us that made sense, we were going to keep both of them in a shortened season."



They will both be here for the rest of the season, end of thread

Edited by Noheart, 12 February 2013 - 12:00 PM.

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#2618 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

Ok; lets think this through. Multiple choice might help?

Option A Lou is thrilled with everything so he wants out?

Option B His sense of manhood is challenged by being sat in favour of another goalie, so he wants out?

I'm going with B... And I call it pouting!

I suppose your entitled to your own perception of things.


And thanks D Money! I kacked myself laughing!

Posted Image


He has played more games than Schneider which is the same as every other year so i don't see how he could be pouting about his manhood or play time.

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 12 February 2013 - 12:20 PM.

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#2619 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "You talk to general managers all the time... You'd be surprised the number of teams that have inquired about our goalies." Plural.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis on a Luongo buyout: "Absolutely not." Never even discussed.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "Every team you're talking to about a potential trade includes a player you might not want or manages their cap situation as well."

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: Time to do something with goalie situation will be the summer.

@SNHockeyCentral: Gillis: "Doing the right thing by the two guys changes during the off-season."

@SNHockeyCentral: Mike Gillis: "If there wasn't a deal for us that made sense, we were going to keep both of them in a shortened season."



They will both be here for the rest of the season, end of thread


thanks Noheart.
MG holding tough as the market heats up...
Whose the idiot that brings up "buyout"? Assinine TSN knucklescraping. Toronto, you wreak of desperation.
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#2620 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

Nabokov is old, Holtby is young and has potential. Nabby would be a good mentor for Schneider for this year.


But Schneider doesn't need a mentor. The technicality of goaltending (Smurf47) of Schneider is beyond any mentor's ability. Mr. Know-it-all SmashianKassian swears by this ultimately perfect, flawless, young, contractually sound goaltender who cannot make a mistake.

(Luongo is pushing Schneider to be better. Take Luongo out, lose Schneider)

When's the last time we heard of a GM, a coach, players or a goaltender himself say: "I have to be better", "I have to play better"? If the answer is pre-Luongo, you are right.
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#2621 Noheart

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

Heres the whole interview, noheart.

http://www.sportsnet...entral_at_noon/


Thanks bud
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#2622 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

thanks Noheart.
MG holding tough as the market heats up...
Whose the idiot that brings up "buyout"? Assinine TSN knucklescraping. Toronto, you wreak of desperation.


it was actually doug McLean. he asked gillis to clear it up and tell the world how ridiculous it is to walk into an owners office and talk about buying out a player like that. They actually took jabs at toronto media themselves, its a pretty good interview
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#2623 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

But Schneider doesn't need a mentor. The technicality of goaltending (Smurf47) of Schneider is beyond any mentor's ability. Mr. Know-it-all SmashianKassian swears by this ultimately perfect, flawless, young, contractually sound goaltender who cannot make a mistake.

(Luongo is pushing Schneider to be better. Take Luongo out, lose Schneider)

When's the last time we heard of a GM, a coach, players or a goaltender himself say: "I have to be better", "I have to play better"? If the answer is pre-Luongo, you are right.


Did you watch Afterhours? Luongo pretty clearly said that Schneider has made him better - that his calmness and poise has rubbed off. They've made each other better - simple as that. No need to keep beating this Schneider vs Luongo drum - they're team-mates, they both want to play and win, and they aren't small enough to envy each other's strengths.
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#2624 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:14 PM

it was actually doug McLean. he asked gillis to clear it up and tell the world how ridiculous it is to walk into an owners office and talk about buying out a player like that. They actually took jabs at toronto media themselves, its a pretty good interview


Thanks thad - that's nice to hear (and will now go to your link... I see it's the net not tsn, derp on my part)

Gillis - "love hearing opinions out of Toronto" haha...

Edited by oldnews, 12 February 2013 - 12:18 PM.

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#2625 Noheart

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

Did you watch Afterhours? Luongo pretty clearly said that Schneider has made him better - that his calmness and poise has rubbed off. They've made each other better - simple as that. No need to keep beating this Schneider vs Luongo drum - they're team-mates, they both want to play and win, and they aren't small enough to envy each other's strengths.


You can only imagine how different the situation is at the nucleus.

I am actually a little surprised at how well it is working, I say screw it, roll with it till the draft.

Be very interesting in the playoffs
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#2626 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:20 PM

Thanks bud


i just finished the whole thing.. wow, what great insight on the whole situation. that is pretty much how ive been viewing it lately. The part i really like was when gillis talked about how people and media have underestimated the character of both goalies and i fully agree. We're seeing luongo show his lighter fun side these days and this hasnt been a distraction in the locker room at all.

Mike Gillis is going to give ken holland's legacy a run for its money. Go ahead and flame away but mark my words, he will be up there with him in 10 years
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#2627 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

You can only imagine how different the situation is at the nucleus.

I am actually a little surprised at how well it is working, I say screw it, roll with it till the draft.

Be very interesting in the playoffs


I think in the short run the difference between being a clear #1 and playing say 40 of 48 games, versus being half of a tandem and starting 24, is 16 starts. Perhaps in the long run that's not enough of a difference to make Luongo get antsy - particularly if he has a chance to win a Cup here - and Gillis imo has made it pretty clear that this will be resolved by the summer. I don't think it's too much to ask/expect Luongo to have patience through this season. If he were to go to a place like Toronto, there's a good chance he doesn't get a single playoff start haha, so it can't look that bad sticking around here til summer.
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#2628 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

You can only imagine how different the situation is at the nucleus.

I am actually a little surprised at how well it is working, I say screw it, roll with it till the draft.

Be very interesting in the playoffs


im surprised at how well this entire season has been working. Like really, i thought at least raymond and ballard would be crapping the bed by now lol.. both have been great, kassian is better than i thought he would be this early.... ok schroeder is too small and has to be a bust, right?... WRONG! haha he's been awesome too. even weise and pattie have been killin it

Im a pretty optimistic guy but i wasnt that optimistic. Im starting to not believe in karma, how do we burn the city down 2 yrs ago and still end up with this good fortune?
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#2629 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

i just finished the whole thing.. wow, what great insight on the whole situation. that is pretty much how ive been viewing it lately. The part i really like was when gillis talked about how people and media have underestimated the character of both goalies and i fully agree. We're seeing luongo show his lighter fun side these days and this hasnt been a distraction in the locker room at all.

Mike Gillis is going to give ken holland's legacy a run for its money. Go ahead and flame away but mark my words, he will be up there with him in 10 years


I laughed when he was talking about speculation, rumours, social media and how any guy in his mothers basement could make something up
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#2630 smurf47

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

But Schneider doesn't need a mentor. The technicality of goaltending (Smurf47) of Schneider is beyond any mentor's ability. Mr. Know-it-all SmashianKassian swears by this ultimately perfect, flawless, young, contractually sound goaltender who cannot make a mistake.

(Luongo is pushing Schneider to be better. Take Luongo out, lose Schneider)

When's the last time we heard of a GM, a coach, players or a goaltender himself say: "I have to be better", "I have to play better"? If the answer is pre-Luongo, you are right.

Ok hockey guru....Luongo has been working on technical issues(did you see the clip) so, it might be safe to say that he has, by watching Schneider, learned a few things himself. The question then becomes, who is mentoring whom. Of course, with a self anointed name like Hockey 101..its appearant you have a lot to learn, and more so about the technicality of goaltending where you are an obvious neophyte ! If ya live in a glass house its recommended that you not throw stones !
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#2631 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Yeah, well I can hear you crying every time someone doesn't buy Corsi as the be all and end all.

Oh I never watched the game, but I did compare the advanced statistics; LOL

Look, Lou might think he has enough power to take his $60 mill contract and lie on the beach in Florida? His timing suggests he does not like being upstaged?!? Maybe he feels he was promised the reigns when he signed, and he feels let down. But its clear he would prefer to be somewhere else.

Aren't you the guy who stood stronger than anyone saying Hodgson had to go because he wanted out? Oh wait, it was Corsi...

:picard:

Call it whatever you want - it looks like you're full of crap though.


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#2632 smurf47

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

But Schneider doesn't need a mentor. The technicality of goaltending (Smurf47) of Schneider is beyond any mentor's ability. Mr. Know-it-all SmashianKassian swears by this ultimately perfect, flawless, young, contractually sound goaltender who cannot make a mistake.

(Luongo is pushing Schneider to be better. Take Luongo out, lose Schneider)

When's the last time we heard of a GM, a coach, players or a goaltender himself say: "I have to be better", "I have to play better"? If the answer is pre-Luongo, you are right.

and..no where has Smashian or I said that Schneider didn;t need a mentor(I said he had Melanson as mentor) or cannot make a mistake or is ultimately perfect. Stop trolling and stirring the pot, get your facts straight or shut your cake hole.
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#2633 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

The one thing I heard Gillis say that I think indicated what a deal must include if it is to happen this season was the part where he referred to being

"strong down the middle - may have a weakness there in a couple spots..."

Judging by that I'd guess that a deal would have to include an affordable, viable 3C - a two way guy with shutdown abilities, who has potential 2C tweener/upside if Kesler's health can't be assumed. Obviously Couturier is ideal if talking Philly (inb4 Smashian's 147th insistence that he knows who is and is not "available"), a guy like Goc imo as one part of a Florida deal (good affordable depth piece but lots of value remaining for futures in a deal), Toronto's roster players are a tough sell and they have no extra depth at C, Washington is even more difficult to find a good fit imo... I think Florida can actually afford a deal, while Philly has a roadblock, so what Gillis wants and who can provide it will require patience.
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#2634 Noheart

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

im surprised at how well this entire season has been working. Like really, i thought at least raymond and Ballard would be crapping the bed by now lol.. both have been great, kassian is better than i thought he would be this early.... ok schroeder is too small and has to be a bust, right?... WRONG! haha he's been awesome too. even weise and pattie have been killin it

Im a pretty optimistic guy but i wasnt that optimistic. Im starting to not believe in karma, how do we burn the city down 2 yrs ago and still end up with this good fortune?


Im pretty much the same, I laughed at Schroeder, I called him a midget on several occasions.
Hated the idea of Luongo staying calling him every name in the book. I think i said id be happy if we acquired Yasin's negotiating rights for him hahah.

I can always laugh about it and gladly admit I'm wrong, I pretty happy I'm not the GM, we'd be screwed.

Always had a soft spot for Ballard and Raymond, Volpatti is probably my favourite Canuck right now.
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#2635 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

Yeah, well I can hear you crying every time someone doesn't buy Corsi as the be all and end all.

Oh I never watched the game, but I did compare the advanced statistics; LOL

Look, Lou might think he has enough power to take his $60 mill contract and lie on the beach in Florida? His timing suggests he does not like being upstaged?!? Maybe he feels he was promised the reigns when he signed, and he feels let down. But its clear he would prefer to be somewhere else.

Aren't you the guy who stood stronger than anyone saying Hodgson had to go because he wanted out? Oh wait, it was Corsi...

:picard:


Waste of time - pointless, substance-free rant.
You have no credibility to speak for Luongo - and clearly, no clear idea regardless.
Luo was put on the spot and asked if he'd waive his ntc. He gave diplomatic responses from the get go. Your attempts to play Dr. Phil and give us the inner workings or his psyche and his 'challenged manhood' are a pathetic fail. Context matters.
Hodgson is irrelevant here, the context was entirely different, and your opinions on that matter are as foggy as they are on this one, so likewise, that's a waste of time that's not worth revisiting.

Edited by oldnews, 12 February 2013 - 01:25 PM.

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#2636 elvis15

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

But Schneider doesn't need a mentor. The technicality of goaltending (Smurf47) of Schneider is beyond any mentor's ability. Mr. Know-it-all SmashianKassian swears by this ultimately perfect, flawless, young, contractually sound goaltender who cannot make a mistake.

(Luongo is pushing Schneider to be better. Take Luongo out, lose Schneider)

When's the last time we heard of a GM, a coach, players or a goaltender himself say: "I have to be better", "I have to play better"? If the answer is pre-Luongo, you are right.

We understand you want Luongo to stay and Schneider to go, and I understand some of the people you're replying to want Schneider to stay and Luongo to go. The difference in what else the second group of people I mentioned understand is that Luongo is most likely to go because he's opened the door for a potential trade and the Canucks are at least prepared to go forward with Schneider as a starter if they can get a suitable deal for Lu.

It doesn't have to be about personal preference alone or a popularity contest, nor do you have to repeat yourself ad nauseum and call other posters know-it-alls or mock their personal knowledge and experience.

As oldnews points out below, they're both better for the experience of playing together. Schneider is at the point in his career where he won't benefit from playing behind another top goalie, not will having two top goalies split time be effective for a long period of time, so Schneider has to be given the opportunity to have more games as a starter. It could be here or somewhere else, but with the situation as it is (based on all the actual evidence we have from team management and both Luongo and Schneider's expectations) it's most likely to be here and Luongo to be somewhere else at least to start next season.

Did you watch Afterhours? Luongo pretty clearly said that Schneider has made him better - that his calmness and poise has rubbed off. They've made each other better - simple as that. No need to keep beating this Schneider vs Luongo drum - they're team-mates, they both want to play and win, and they aren't small enough to envy each other's strengths.

As with many other posts lately, logical and thoughtful response. I probably shouldn't even reply to CH101 since you covered it but I'm a glutton for punishment myself. +1

Edited by elvis15, 12 February 2013 - 01:33 PM.

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#2637 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:32 PM

Im pretty much the same, I laughed at Schroeder, I called him a midget on several occasions.
Hated the idea of Luongo staying calling him every name in the book. I think i said id be happy if we acquired Yasin's negotiating rights for him hahah.

I can always laugh about it and gladly admit I'm wrong, I pretty happy I'm not the GM, we'd be screwed.

Always had a soft spot for Ballard and Raymond, Volpatti is probably my favourite Canuck right now.


yashin's rights LOL

yeah its good to see people on here that can be in good humor when they were wrong and grow with the season as opposed to hanging on to a soundbite from 2 years ago or making up disgruntled player arguments.

i had this gut feeling schroeder was gonna bust. it wasnt really based on anything, i knew he was skilled but in the back of my mind i thought he was gonna come in for a game and look like bill sweatt did. I also had a feeling kassian would be our best player one day but it would take him 2 more years to break out.

6 months ago i was pretty concerned about the future of the team and who takes the torch when the twins go. Its hard to be optimistic when you see jeff skinner and jordan eberle busting on to the scene so early and all these teams with great youngsters. i guess we finally get to see gillis vision unfold now over the next few years as we start to turn over jobs to well seasoned prospects. Every fan wants to be detroit but they dont want to follow the pull out your hair patience plan to get there haha

i honestly dont even know what i want for luongo anymore, we have a great team with no holes and im pretty optimistic about our prospect pool right now.
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#2638 D-Money

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

oldnews and Surfer...


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#2639 elvis15

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

im surprised at how well this entire season has been working. Like really, i thought at least raymond and ballard would be crapping the bed by now lol.. both have been great, kassian is better than i thought he would be this early.... ok schroeder is too small and has to be a bust, right?... WRONG! haha he's been awesome too. even weise and pattie have been killin it

Im a pretty optimistic guy but i wasnt that optimistic. Im starting to not believe in karma, how do we burn the city down 2 yrs ago and still end up with this good fortune?

I think you've worded your expectations even a little stronger than I would myself, but I was prepared for some of those players at least to be worse than they have been. There's still room for them to be more productive (certainly in consistency and when it counts) but I can't really complain at this point and hope it is enough to have this team be as competitive as they can when the playoffs roll around.
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#2640 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:37 PM

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Ok; lets think this through.  Multiple choice might help?

Option A    Lou is thrilled with everything so he wants out?

Option B    His sense of manhood is challenged by being sat in favour of another goalie, so he wants out?

I'm going with B...  And I call it pouting!

I suppose your entitled to your own perception of things.



You're forgetting one option.

Option C: Luongo realizes that the team has decided to with the younger, cheaper goaltender because they believe that it's the best thing for the team.

He'd like to be the starter somewhere, but he understands that it isn't easy for Gillis to deal him and receive a package back that is commensurate with his worth.

That being the case, he is saying and doing all the right things, (most importantly not pouting) until such a time as this happens.

You can go ahead and go with your "theory" if you like. Since my take is supported by absolutely everything Luongo has said and done since the playoff exit last season, I'm going to stick with mine.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!




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