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[Rumour] Panthers can't afford Weiss, looking to trade him


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#151 CB007

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:04 PM

I have been arguing for a trade for Weiss and a goalie from Florida for a while now. A good rental is fine as someone else has said, for we need to clear some salary cap for next year, plus our window will shrink from Edler and Burrows' well deserve pay raises.

We need a NHL caliber goalie from FL as I don't think we want anyone from the UFA pool if we are still trying to win the Cup.

Henrik, Weiss and Kesler would give us the best 1-2-3 down the middle in the league.

Look at Boston, they have Bergeron, Krejci, Peverley and Kelly as their 1 - 4 C's. While none of them are super stars they are all excellent face off men and are defensively reliable, and can put the puck in the net if they have the chance.

Henrik, Kesler, Lapierre, Malhotra and Schroeder won't get the job done in the playoffs.
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#152 elvis15

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

The point is Weiss wouldn't be part of the UFA pool, he'd already be Canuck property, so Gillis wouldn't have to deal with the open market competition. Weiss has a NMC, he's likely only going to wave to play for a team he WANTS to play for. So therefore, the Canucks could get a top-6 forward without the overinflated UFA price tag and be a step above everybody else.
...
Total Cap: 61.62, so give raises where you think my predictions are wrong.. or else the team is not only stacked but well beneath the cap.

Bingo. 23-man roster with Weiss @ $4.5m is pretty much impossible:
...
TOTAL CAP HIT: $64,265,000.00 SALARY CAP: $64,300,000.00 CAP SPACE: $35,000.00

Someone's wrong in their addition then, and since I didn't add up the first roster, I'll do that for both just to see.
  • Using only the numbers from Teemu's post (no raises like I mentioned there might be) I get a total of $67.82M - well over the cap.
  • Using the numbers from Miller's post (although I wouldn't line them up that way) I get a total of $64.265M - fits like he said but barely.

Teemu, you obviously did some math wrong since yours does not equal $61.62M. I don't know if you only added one Sedin or what, but no way Weiss fits on his next contract without further cuts.

We could drop Booth as well and give Jensen a shot next year. He's ready and it would solve the problems but it would mean using both our buy outs assuming we can't trade Booth and/or Ballard for picks/prospects. If we could get assets (particularly if we can translate it into a high pick this year) back for them, I wouldn't be opposed as we'll have to fit Jensen in somewhere soon, and I like Weiss.

I guess it'll come down to Gillis' plan and if Florida really is considering offering him up instead of one of their other young centers fighting for spots.

Edited by elvis15, 01 February 2013 - 02:00 PM.

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#153 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

Someone's wrong in their addition then, and since I didn't add up the first roster, I'll do that for both just to see.

  • Using only the numbers from Teemu's post (no raises like I mentioned there might be) I get a total of $67.82M - well over the cap.
  • Using the numbers from Miller's post (although I wouldn't line them up that way) I get a total of $64.265M - fits like he said but barely.
Teemu, you obviously did some math wrong since yours does not equal $61.62M. I don't know if you only added one Sedin or what, but no way Weiss fits on his next contract without further cuts.

We could drop Booth as well and give Jensen a shot next year. He's ready and it would solve the problems but it would mean using both our buy outs assuming we can't trade Booth and/or Ballard for picks/prospects. If we could get assets (particularly if we can translate it into a high pick this year) back for them, I wouldn't be opposed as we'll have to fit Jensen in somewhere soon, and I like Weiss.

I guess it'll come down to Gillis' plan and if Florida really is considering offering him up instead of one of their other young centers fighting for spots.


Yeah looking back you're right.. Shoot!

Dunno what I did. But I still don't think it's impossible to add him, but it does make my argument weak.
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#154 elvis15

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

The idea was nice, execution not so much. :P
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#155 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

Let's try this again; Toronto, Calgary, Columbus, Colorado... Columbus and Colorado (considering all 3 of their top line players are currently out) are bottom feeders. Toronto and Calgary are fringe play off teams, Toronto already well documented as re-building and Calgary well documented as being reluctant to re-build when they should be.

Could I see Colorado trading for Weiss to fill their top line centre role? I suppose.

But Weiss is a rental, UFA at the end of the year! Colorado is not going on a cup run this year even with Weiss, so it would, in fact, be dumb to mortgage their future to grasp at a shot at a play off spot. Calgary has a better chance at making it out of the first round if they pick up a Weiss to give Iggy a last fling? Well, they would be smarter to keep assets, and trade Iggy so they would be a play off team for years to come. However, they are at the cap, and cannot give up prospects for Weiss, so it makes the point moot. Toronto is already, wisely, committed to playing young centres and riding it out. Columbus? Why in the world would they give up what prospects they have?

Detroit, well who couldn't use a good centre? But they have more pressing needs on D. And two pretty good centres already in Zetterburg and Datsyuk. If they make a move; count on it being one to fill their needs not a position where they are stacked! And really, they are not primed for cup contention this year, so probably would not give up significant parts for Weiss.

Weiss is a R E N T A L! These are not teams that should be looking at rentals!

Toronto is a random pick but you never what move they might make, they always need centremen and could use Weiss.

Calgary if you remember correctly was the team that traded for Jay-Bo and signed him, they could have the same idea in mind about a potential Weiss deal. They have done this often as you can tell from this past offseason.

Columbus is just a random pick, which I thought may give it a shot.

Detroit could trade for Weiss and then in turn trade away Filpulla, since that situation has a huge ? surrounding it. Also what if Datsyuk or Zetterberg get injured, also they could generate more offense by putting Pavel and Henrik on a line together.

Colorado could use another centre and could send O'Reilly the other way if it doesn't work out in Colorado. Weiss could fill in that slot and they could offer him a contract.

Weiss's negotiating rights could be traded if none of the teams are able to keep him


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#156 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

Again, I'm all for getting a rental player the quality of Weiss, provided he's not extravagently expensive.

That said, I'd rather wait until closer to the deadline, to see if we have more pressing needs. It would suck to trade assets for Weiss, only to later have a few defensemen go down and no cap room or expendable assets to plug the holes.
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#157 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

Lou is doing his level best to have a cuddly relationship with Schneider.

Do you honestly think Lou is jumping into a closet with Carey Price?

Are you kidding. I see Luongo heading to Montreal for Subban before heading to Washington.


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#158 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

So your proposing Weiss for Booth? I'm in!

I suspect you could lure Tallon as well??? edit : also note, Versteeg is out, they can use a winger...


Would much rather Weiss at $5m than Booth at $4.25


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 01 February 2013 - 03:17 PM.

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#159 ccc44

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

Maybe the reason they can't afford him is because they will be getting an expensive goalie sometime soon

Or maybe not
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#160 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

Using the numbers from Miller's post (although I wouldn't line them up that way) I get a total of $64.265M - fits like he said but barely.


Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Booth-Weiss-Jensen

?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#161 elvis15

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Booth-Weiss-Jensen

?

Not sure where to put Jensen if we keep Booth and acquire Weiss, and that we'd drop Higgins (trade?). Obviously someone would have to go with all those available top 9 wingers and Raymond too.

The first line is obvious, unless Burrows rotates back in at times.

The second line I think becomes Booth/Weiss/Kesler. I don't see either Kesler or Weiss dropping to the third even though we need a center there.

The 'third line' of Higgins/Burrows/Hansen has been solid of late, but Burrows isn't really great on faceoffs. Hansen sticks as the 3rd line RW, but I could see Schroeder sliding in there and Burrows going to the LW in your scenario of Higgins dropped from the lineup.

Jensen still needs to fit in, but where does he go? The second line could still use a playmaker so sticking him with Kes and Booth (not making a deal for Weiss) would just mean three shooters again. His defence would be good enough with Burrows centering a third line with Hansen, but then what about Schroeder and how to deal with Burrows' faceoffs?

I don't know, a Weiss deal just confuses things.
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#162 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

Not sure where to put Jensen if we keep Booth and acquire Weiss, and that we'd drop Higgins (trade?). Obviously someone would have to go with all those available top 9 wingers and Raymond too.

The first line is obvious, unless Burrows rotates back in at times.

The second line I think becomes Booth/Weiss/Kesler. I don't see either Kesler or Weiss dropping to the third even though we need a center there.

The 'third line' of Higgins/Burrows/Hansen has been solid of late, but Burrows isn't really great on faceoffs. Hansen sticks as the 3rd line RW, but I could see Schroeder sliding in there and Burrows going to the LW in your scenario of Higgins dropped from the lineup.

Jensen still needs to fit in, but where does he go? The second line could still use a playmaker so sticking him with Kes and Booth (not making a deal for Weiss) would just mean three shooters again. His defence would be good enough with Burrows centering a third line with Hansen, but then what about Schroeder and how to deal with Burrows' faceoffs?

I don't know, a Weiss deal just confuses things.


Well, the way I shaped it was by what I figured would be the zone starts and keeping two young players off the same line. And, yes, Higgins and his $2m+ salary would have to go in order to fit in Weiss @ $4.5m. I'm also thinking if the intent is to re-sign Weiss, then Schroeder would probably be heading out to Florida to help land the prospect centre that Gillis wants (Weiss would make Schroeder rather redundant).

Ozone option #1, Sedins & Kass. Ozone #2, Weiss & Booth. Ozone option #3, Kes & Burr.
Dzone option #1, Kes & Burr. Dzone option #2, 4th line. Dzone option #3, Weiss & Booth.

Kesler gets #1 unit PP time to keep him offensively happy, and keeps his #1 PK responsibilities (the guy needs to remember we paid him to be a perennial Selke nominee). Weiss centres the #2 PP unit with Kassian and Booth, and gets penalty killing duties as well (1st option on strongside draws). At this point in his career you'd think he'd have had enough of being the #1 guy but losing/missing the playoffs and be more interested winning in a supporting role.

It makes sense in theory but the dollars are too tight.

Edited by Millerdraft, 01 February 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#163 elvis15

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

I can see it if the intent is to have the 2nd line (as listed) the main checking line to be used against the top line on the other team, while the 3rd (again, as listed) be the secondary offence line. Hard to get away from seeing it in the 1-2-3 order and considering what those line's roles are traditionally.

But yes, I love the playmaking Weiss could offer as a secondary option but it complicates things elsewhere when we finally have more young options coming up that we've developed.

Edited by elvis15, 01 February 2013 - 07:06 PM.

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#164 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

@SpectorsHockey: #Panthers GM Tallon says he won't trade Weiss. Glenn Healy claims Weiss is on the market.
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#165 PartyTimeWithJeffCarter

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

Maybe the reason they can't afford him is because they will be getting an expensive goalie sometime soon


Curious to see who that'd be :bigblush:
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#166 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:14 PM

The point is Weiss wouldn't be part of the UFA pool, he'd already be Canuck property, so Gillis wouldn't have to deal with the open market competition. Weiss has a NMC, he's likely only going to wave to play for a team he WANTS to play for. So therefore, the Canucks could get a top-6 forward without the overinflated UFA price tag and be a step above everybody else.

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Weiss - Kesler
Burrows

That's a stacked top-6 (with Burr being interchangeable anywhere in the line-up) and the cap hits could work fine without Ballard, Luongo or Raymond:

Sedin (6.1) - Sedin (6.1) - Kassian (.87)
Booth (4.25) - Weiss (4.8) - Kesler (5)
Burrows (4.5) - Lapierre (1) - Hansen (1.35)
Higgins (1.75) - Malhotra (1.65) - Weise (.650)
UFA (.700)

Edler (5) - Garrison (4.6)
Bieksa (4.6) - Hammer (4.5)
Connauton (.7) - Tanev (1.6)
Vandermeer (.9), UFA (.7)

Schneider - (4)
UFA - (2.5)

Blue = prediction on salary

Total Cap: 61.62, so give raises where you think my predictions are wrong.. or else the team is not only stacked but well beneath the cap.


Great post- prob one of the best I've read here.
I don't mind Higgins, but in our fourth line, I'd prefer someone bigger and more physical, Higgins is a nice filler but does not have anyone feature about him that is particularly useful- he fills in for injured top 6 guys, or grinds it out in unspectacular fashion on the third line.

Perfect fit- dereck dorsett, a guy like that , cheaper by 1-.750 mill

Cannauton- not sold on his ability to play actual defense.

Perfect fit- buyout Keith Ballard and then give him a multiple year deal at a lower cap hit. 3 years 2.0 mill

Maybe Jensen and Schroeder make the lineup?

4.8 mill for Weiss sounds great- 6.8 mill for perry or getzlaf sounds better and if we have a cheaper back up and fourth liner in place of Higgins, we will have more than enough cap space to offer someone 6.8- other teams may offer more tho



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#167 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:37 PM

Great post- prob one of the best I've read here.
I don't mind Higgins, but in our fourth line, I'd prefer someone bigger and more physical, Higgins is a nice filler but does not have anyone feature about him that is particularly useful- he fills in for injured top 6 guys, or grinds it out in unspectacular fashion on the third line.

Perfect fit- dereck dorsett, a guy like that , cheaper by 1-.750 mill

Cannauton- not sold on his ability to play actual defense.

Perfect fit- buyout Keith Ballard and then give him a multiple year deal at a lower cap hit. 3 years 2.0 mill

Maybe Jensen and Schroeder make the lineup?

4.8 mill for Weiss sounds great- 6.8 mill for perry or getzlaf sounds better and if we have a cheaper back up and fourth liner in place of Higgins, we will have more than enough cap space to offer someone 6.8- other teams may offer more tho

He's pretty reasonable in his suggestions for why it'd be good, but his math needed work. The cap actually added up to over $67M, so there's no way it would have worked. And no way we'd be able to up the ante to get Getzlaf or Perry without other changes.

And we can't buyout Ballard and re-sign him to a lower cap hit deal.

Edited by elvis15, 03 February 2013 - 01:41 PM.

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#168 TheFame

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

Straight from the horses mouth:

"This is the first I've heard of it,'' he said. "This is surprising because my buddies all watch the Leafs games. My parents too. Maybe they just wanted to keep my head clear.''

http://miamiherald.t...d-from-hni.html
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#169 Spoosh

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

Straight from the horses mouth:

"This is the first I've heard of it,'' he said. "This is surprising because my buddies all watch the Leafs games. My parents too. Maybe they just wanted to keep my head clear.''

http://miamiherald.t...d-from-hni.html


There is still time before the deadline to cut a deal. But no matter how you angle it or deny it now, if there is no deal in place by the deadline in Florida, nor will Weiss be. Tallon won't let him walk for nothing, he's too good to be given up for free.
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#170 crazyforhockey

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:19 PM

<p>

Garrison looks fine defensively but he is not being used as effectively in Van as he was last year in Florida. No one is setting him up for one timers the way Campbell did on the PP.......He does not look like a 16 goal scorer right now at all. I didn't say those guys play like crap, I said they don't bring the same game to Vancouver when they end up here, which unfortunately in all 3 of those cases is true so far.

As for Booth, he has not played up to expectations at all and looks pretty average with Kesler.

Of course we all hope that will change but my point wasn't about what we hope for......

would also say that garrison is shooting less because he feels a need to pass to the puck to the talented Sedins or edler rather than blast it....just needs to be a little bit more selfish...timing too.....,,,defensivly been solid and everthing will be great in another couple of weeks
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