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My Logical Theory on the Future of Our Goaltending


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#31 frazzY

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

Thats not an issue, once Schneider is done his contract in 2015 who knows what every else will have signed at. The sedins and half our defense will be different contracts. Next year with the new 64 mil cap is my concern...

Both goalies contracts are very manageable.. But add up all our other "manageable" contracts and that puts us way over cost..

The sedins at 6.1 each are "manageable". Kelser (5mill), burrows (4.5), booth (4.5), garrison (4.6), Ballard (4.5), bieksa (4.6), Hammuis (4.5), Edler (5 mill).... all are manageable contracts.

My point is that we have a lot of good players signed but unfortunately we can't keep them all.. the new CBA has changed things, and a luongo trade is unfortunately the best solution since his cap @6.7 mill next year is our biggest and we have Schneids and lack combined for cheaper.


I get what your saying, and Lu's cap hit is 5.3 until he retires
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#32 bluesy_shoes

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

I agree that Luongo's contract is a tough one to hang on to. I understand that Luongo will not be in his "prime" for the duration of his contract. However, I'm also very aware that Lu will be regarded as one of the best goaltenders of all time. I'm also very confident in the fact that for the next 2-4 years, Luongo will still be considered a great goalie in this league, and essentially in his "prime." What about the rest of our team? Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Garrison, Edler, and Hamhuis can be considered as part of our core, and together will be in their "prime" for another.. Lets say 2-4 years for simplicity's sake. Now if we were to trade Schneider, we still have a full team in their prime, plus the return for Schneider (which IMO would be greater than the return for Luongo). However, if we trade Luongo, we are essentially moving to a goaltender who isn't in his prime, and in a holistic sense downgrading in that position. I understand fully that Schneider will be a goalie of the future. However, if our cup window is closing, we may as well go all in, and win this thing in the next 2-4 years when our whole team is in its prime, PLUS the return for Schneider PLUS the development of Kassian and Shroeder.


You have a good argument, but I disagree with one of your assumptions. I don't think the Canucks are in "win now" mode. They never will be under Gillis. What Gillis is looking for is to remain competitive year in year out, but he is never going to trade our future to increase our chances at winning over a small window.

There's evidence of this. He never seems to trade a younger player for an older player, or at least he never trades for rentals. in the case of draft picks for players, usually they are for players that end up signing multi-year deals with us like Higgins and Lapierre, players who are ultimately about as good or better than what is typical of the picks they were traded for. In the case of Ballard, I think his scouts were expecting much more out of him, and we needed depth defense bad. All in all, it was long term, and Ballard was relatively young for a D-man.

So what's the strategy? I figure Gillis is looking to get into the playoffs every year, because teams that do that end up winning eventually. You can have the best team on paper, but you can never account for the reality of illness, injuries, player's on hot streaks, player's personal lives, media, and all around luck. The fact is teams that win the Cup look different every year. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago all had mediocre goalies. Now that Boston and LA won, there is a huge focus on goaltending. Part of this is a changing culture of hockey every year, but a lot of it is that there is no formula. Everyone assumes whoever wins has the "formula," but most of it is timing, health, mentality, and luck. The only way to take advantage of this is to remain competitive every year, and wait for the year that your team is hot at the right time.

Gillis now sees what you see. We have players in their prime, and that this window is closing. What does he say? We need to get younger. What we will see in the next few years is the introduction of our younger players on ELC's that will be on the upswing of their careers. Most won't be superstars, but they have ironed out most of their quirks in the AHL, and they will have great mentors in our veterans. They will play to and above the value of their ELC contracts, and that will see us through the expensive years of our veteran's contracts, allowing us to remain competitive.

Edit: if it isn't clear, we are keeping Schneider.

Edited by bluesy_shoes, 28 January 2013 - 12:42 PM.

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#33 VicNuckleHead09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

I've said this all along.

Schneider is nowhere near his prime yet. He hasn't even had a full season as starter. He hasn't played much playoff hockey, he hasn't been in big games yet. These experiences are what moulds a goalie - even young goalies like Quick and Rinne have been through a few years of playoff failure before they could put it together and play well in the post-season.

Schneider will take another couple of years before he's ready to become a Cup-challenging goalie. Right now he has no idea what it's like to play under the pressure of a starting goalie let alone in the playoffs. Luongo on the otherhand does. He's been through all the big games, won big games and lost them and has developed more and more over the last 5 odd years so that he may put it all together now.

We don't have time for Schneider to put all these experiences together, because the rest of our core players will be well past their prime then. Stick with Luongo, who's grown and developed with the rest of our core like the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler and Hamhuis.


Brodeur won as a rookie... a freaking rookie. I can't tell you how much I disagree with you and at the same time respect your opinion..
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#34 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

Brodeur won as a rookie... a freaking rookie. I can't tell you how much I disagree with you and at the same time respect your opinion..


- Cam Ward won as a rookie as well. Had only played 28 regular season games.
- J.S. Giguere wasn't a rookie, but took his team all the way to the finals in his first playoff action.
- Mike Smith only had a couple of games experience in the playoffs before last season...looked OK to me.
- Although the Caps could only get to round 2, Holtby was fantastic in the playoffs after only 21 regular seasson games.
- Halak didn't need long to be effective in the playoffs either.

This whole age/experience thing is highly overrated.

And speaking of overrated, since his fantastic first playoff run with us (incidentally, the first playoff run of his career), Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all, especially for a highly paid "franchise" goaltender. But some sentimental people continually want to ignore the facts, and defend the guy to the end.

Face it: Schneider is the better option, and it's not even close.

Edited by D-Money, 28 January 2013 - 01:09 PM.

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#35 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

The logic some of the Lu haters present is astounding.

Overall, Schneider has done nothing to prove he is better than Luongo.

I'd rather keep the guy who's taken us to the finals, as opposed to the guy who "could".
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#36 klosetotheheart

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

First off, I'd like to mention that this post will have absolutely nothing to do with what has gone on in the first 5 games of the season. It has come to my attention that there has many mixed emotions when it comes to our situation in net - here's my opinion of what the current state is and what I believe would be the best decisions to make.

Considering that this is a shortened season, I would have no problem with having both Lu and Schnieder. I remember back in the day when we had Cloutier and Bob Essensa (I know..) and Crawford would rotate the goalies and keep playing one until they lost, and then would ride the next one (no pun intended). My only concern with this would be in the playoffs.. And that's why I'll explain my next point.

I agree that Luongo's contract is a tough one to hang on to. I understand that Luongo will not be in his "prime" for the duration of his contract. However, I'm also very aware that Lu will be regarded as one of the best goaltenders of all time. I'm also very confident in the fact that for the next 2-4 years, Luongo will still be considered a great goalie in this league, and essentially in his "prime." What about the rest of our team? Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Garrison, Edler, and Hamhuis can be considered as part of our core, and together will be in their "prime" for another.. Lets say 2-4 years for simplicity's sake. Now if we were to trade Schneider, we still have a full team in their prime, plus the return for Schneider (which IMO would be greater than the return for Luongo). However, if we trade Luongo, we are essentially moving to a goaltender who isn't in his prime, and in a holistic sense downgrading in that position. I understand fully that Schneider will be a goalie of the future. However, if our cup window is closing, we may as well go all in, and win this thing in the next 2-4 years when our whole team is in its prime, PLUS the return for Schneider PLUS the development of Kassian and Shroeder.

I hope that all made sense. I've been thinking it for a while now, and when everyone says "Oh hey Hectic (because that's what I go by), when do you think they'll trade Luongo?" I tell him "I think it would be foolish for them to do that.." for all the above reasons. And of course they don't get it, because they are bandwagon fans. But I know there are some legitimate hockey fans here, and if this makes sense and is valid in your opinion, then Hectic is happy.


I disagree. Schneider is the now, and Schneider is the future. Better technically, and the team seems more confident when he's in net. Trade Luongo for a top 6 center(if we can somehow) or more realistically for some size/grit/toughness for our bottom 6.
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#37 Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

- Cam Ward won as a rookie as well. Had only played 28 regular season games.
- J.S. Giguere wasn't a rookie, but took his team all the way to the finals in his first playoff action.
- Mike Smith only had a couple of games experience in the playoffs before last season...looked OK to me.
- Although the Caps could only get to round 2, Holtby was fantastic in the playoffs after only 21 regular seasson games.
- Halak didn't need long to be effective in the playoffs either.

This whole age/experience thing is highly overrated.

And speaking of overrated, since his fantastic first playoff run with us, Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all, especially for a highly paid "franchise" goaltender. But some sentimental people continually want to ignore the facts, and defend the guy to the end.

Face it: Schneider is the better option, and it's not even close.


And what were the Canucks Goals for during those games?

Example:

In the 2012 Series against the Kings, the Canucks managed to score a whopping 8 goals in 5 games which equals 1.6 goals per game.
In the 2011 series against the Bruins, the Canucks managed to score a whopping 8 goals in 7 games which equals 1.14 goals per game.

Even if Schneider played all those games and based on his career total of 8 playoff games with a 1.91 gaa, we would still have lost as we can't score that many.

Fact is - it doesn't matter who we have in goal.

Yes, Schneider is our future - the question is, is that future now? Maybe...maybe not.


BTW, Luongo is 2.53 playoff career GAA according to nhl.com:

http://www.nhl.com/i...lSeasonsGoalies
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#38 klosetotheheart

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

The logic some of the Lu haters present is astounding.

Overall, Schneider has done nothing to prove he is better than Luongo.

I'd rather keep the guy who's taken us to the finals, as opposed to the guy who "could".


The fact that you refer to anyone who would prefer Schneider over Luongo as "Lu haters" shows that your a GIANT fan boy who knows nothing
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#39 klosetotheheart

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

You have a good argument, but I disagree with one of your assumptions. I don't think the Canucks are in "win now" mode. They never will be under Gillis. What Gillis is looking for is to remain competitive year in year out, but he is never going to trade our future to increase our chances at winning over a small window.

There's evidence of this. He never seems to trade a younger player for an older player, or at least he never trades for rentals. in the case of draft picks for players, usually they are for players that end up signing multi-year deals with us like Higgins and Lapierre, players who are ultimately about as good or better than what is typical of the picks they were traded for. In the case of Ballard, I think his scouts were expecting much more out of him, and we needed depth defense bad. All in all, it was long term, and Ballard was relatively young for a D-man.

So what's the strategy? I figure Gillis is looking to get into the playoffs every year, because teams that do that end up winning eventually. You can have the best team on paper, but you can never account for the reality of illness, injuries, player's on hot streaks, player's personal lives, media, and all around luck. The fact is teams that win the Cup look different every year. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago all had mediocre goalies. Now that Boston and LA won, there is a huge focus on goaltending. Part of this is a changing culture of hockey every year, but a lot of it is that there is no formula. Everyone assumes whoever wins has the "formula," but most of it is timing, health, mentality, and luck. The only way to take advantage of this is to remain competitive every year, and wait for the year that your team is hot at the right time.

Gillis now sees what you see. We have players in their prime, and that this window is closing. What does he say? We need to get younger. What we will see in the next few years is the introduction of our younger players on ELC's that will be on the upswing of their careers. Most won't be superstars, but they have ironed out most of their quirks in the AHL, and they will have great mentors in our veterans. They will play to and above the value of their ELC contracts, and that will see us through the expensive years of our veteran's contracts, allowing us to remain competitive.

Edit: if it isn't clear, we are keeping Schneider.


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#40 Skittles360

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Obviously how a goalie plays in the playoffs counts more than how he plays his first few games out of a lockout. Goalies react differently to time off, new situations, etc. Also, some of the teams are struggling in the defensive zone, leaving their goalies out to dry (Cory had no chance on 3/4 goals last night).

Mikka Kiprusoff - 4 GP, 3.44 GAA, .872 Sv%
Mike Smith - 3 GP, 4.62 GAA, .836 Sv%
Cam Ward - 3 GP, 4.71 GAA, .845 Sv%


Henrik Lundqvist - 5 GP, 3.13 GAA, .893 Sv %
Niklas Backstrom 3 GP, 3.31 GAA, .885 Sv %
Brian Elliot (who was so good last year) 3 GP, 2.75 GAA (decent), .875 Sv %

Not just Schneids, a lot of goalies struggling out of the gate

Edited by Skittles360, 28 January 2013 - 01:36 PM.

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#41 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

The fact that you refer to anyone who would prefer Schneider over Luongo as "Lu haters" shows that your a GIANT fan boy who knows nothing


I clearly said Lu haters, because I've been on these boards long enough now to know who the haters are.

Many people are clearly using poor logic to make excuses to trade Lu
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#42 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

Brodeur won as a rookie... a freaking rookie. I can't tell you how much I disagree with you and at the same time respect your opinion..


Brodeur is on his own level. Comparing any current NHL goalie to him is just crazy.
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#43 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:43 PM

- Cam Ward won as a rookie as well. Had only played 28 regular season games.
- J.S. Giguere wasn't a rookie, but took his team all the way to the finals in his first playoff action.
- Mike Smith only had a couple of games experience in the playoffs before last season...looked OK to me.
- Although the Caps could only get to round 2, Holtby was fantastic in the playoffs after only 21 regular seasson games.
- Halak didn't need long to be effective in the playoffs either.

This whole age/experience thing is highly overrated.

And speaking of overrated, since his fantastic first playoff run with us (incidentally, the first playoff run of his career), Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all, especially for a highly paid "franchise" goaltender. But some sentimental people continually want to ignore the facts, and defend the guy to the end.

Face it: Schneider is the better option, and it's not even close.


So you think by comparing Lu to other goalies that had a lot more help from their team to win games, then that makes Lu worse than Schneider? ...Ok...
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#44 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

BTW, Luongo is 2.53 playoff career GAA according to nhl.com:


I clearly stated that those stats were since his first playoff run in 2005-06. Admittedly, he was phenomenal that year. Since then, not so much.

As for Canucks' goals scored, is the return on a Schneider or Lu package going to single-handedly solve our secondary scoring, to the point where having a goalie who posts below-average playoff stats is not an issue? Probably not. But if you keep the goalie that performs better, the offense doesn't need as much help.
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#45 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

So you think by comparing Lu to other goalies that had a lot more help from their team to win games, then that makes Lu worse than Schneider? ...Ok...


Luongo didn't have more help from his team in the 2005-06 season. He was simply lights out. But he's not that good of a goalie anymore, as his stats clearly indicate.

The irony of the pro-Luongo argument is, the key players on this team have not changed much. If the forwards and defense are really the problem, then we're screwed - we will not win with this current group, regardless of who is in net. If that is the case, the team will need to undergo some major re-structuring, which will take a few years. At that point, Luongo will be well past his prime, whereas Schneider will likely still be an effective starting goalie, with many years left in him, which we will need to contend again.

So either way, the obvious choice is to trade Luongo.
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#46 Hectic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

From reading many of the replies, I've noticed that some agree that the Canucks problems aren't in goal when referring to how many goals we scored in the LA series and the Boston series. Another question is this: Who do you think we'd get more in return for, Luongo or Schneider?

I'm thinking Schneider.
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#47 Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

I clearly stated that those stats were since his first playoff run in 2005-06. Admittedly, he was phenomenal that year. Since then, not so much.

As for Canucks' goals scored, is the return on a Schneider or Lu package going to single-handedly solve our secondary scoring, to the point where having a goalie who posts below-average playoff stats is not an issue? Probably not. But if you keep the goalie that performs better, the offense doesn't need as much help.


You're not getting my angle.

Grant Fuhr was 5.05 GAA 1 year, does that mean he was a bad goalie?
He went on to win some cups with that Oiler squad...

Luongo's worst was last year - but he only played 2 games (3.59 GAA), remember Kirk McClean? his worst playoffs (88/89) were 3.57 GAA

Oh...and the Great Martin Brodeur, he had 3.19 GAA in 07/08 and 3.19 in 09/10.

I guess they should have went with someone else those years...or traded him after 07/08 for a "better" goalie.

No...I'm not comparing Luongo to Brodeur...I'm just saying that this is a team game.
If your team can't even score 2 goals a game you're not going to go very far.

Edited by Heretic, 28 January 2013 - 02:16 PM.

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#48 KraKassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

I look forward to Eddie Lack battling for #1 goalie.
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#49 Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

From reading many of the replies, I've noticed that some agree that the Canucks problems aren't in goal when referring to how many goals we scored in the LA series and the Boston series. Another question is this: Who do you think we'd get more in return for, Luongo or Schneider?

I'm thinking Schneider.


True, but Luongo needs to be traded because of the way the Canucks and fans have treated him since last season.
He deserves to play for a team and fans that want him.
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#50 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Luongo didn't have more help from his team in the 2005-06 season. He was simply lights out. But he's not that good of a goalie anymore, as his stats clearly indicate.

The irony of the pro-Luongo argument is, the key players on this team have not changed much. If the forwards and defense are really the problem, then we're screwed - we will not win with this current group, regardless of who is in net. If that is the case, the team will need to undergo some major re-structuring, which will take a few years. At that point, Luongo will be well past his prime, whereas Schneider will likely still be an effective starting goalie, with many years left in him, which we will need to contend again.

So either way, the obvious choice is to trade Luongo.


We were able to go to the finals not that long ago, so it can't be the core of the team (unless some players never come back the same)

What we need is more offence. So that scenario doesn't really play out. We've really struggled in that area since the SJ series. MG's best move would be to trade Cory for a top 6 forward. The core of the team still has a solid 4-6 years before age may take its toll, so I'm not worried about that.

Use all the stats and comparisons you want, but they won't make a difference.

Yes the obvious choice is to trade Luongo, but it's also the wrong one.
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#51 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

You're not getting my angle.

Grant Fuhr was 5.05 GAA 1 year, does that mean he was a bad goalie?
He went on to win some cups with that Oiler squad...

Luongo's worst was last year - but he only played 2 games (3.59 GAA), remember Kirk McClean?  his worst playoffs (88/89) were 3.57 GAA

Oh...and the Great Martin Brodeur, he had 3.19 GAA in 07/08 and 3.19 in 09/10.

I guess they should have went with someone else those years...or traded him after 07/08 for a "better" goalie.

No...I'm not comparing Luongo to Brodeur...I'm just saying that this is a team game.
If your team can't even score 2 goals a game you're not going to go very far.


We're not talking about 1 year here - or 2, or 3...

Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs. What makes it even worse is that he stands on his head one series (St. Louis, Nashville, San Jose), only to melt down the next (Chicago x 2, Boston). At least if he were consistently average, a deep enough team would be able to have a shot at every series.
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#52 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

We were able to go to the finals not that long ago, so it can't be the core of the team (unless some players never come back the same)

What we need is more offence. So that scenario doesn't really play out. We've really struggled in that area since the SJ series. MG's best move would be to trade Cory for a top 6 forward. The core of the team still has a solid 4-6 years before age may take its toll, so I'm not worried about that.

Use all the stats and comparisons you want, but they won't make a difference.

Yes the obvious choice is to trade Luongo, but it's also the wrong one.


How do you confidently state that Vancouver lost simply because Luongo wasn't getting enough help, and then right after say the team structure is fine because it went to the finals?

Maybe...just maybe...we don't just lose because of the skaters, but sometimes win because of them too?

IMO, we have a solid team. Every team gives up the odd gaffe, and it's the franchise goaltender's job to bail the team out when they do. Luongo hasn't done that consistently in the playoffs since 2006-07. Insanity would be simply trying it over and over again. Ignorance would be figuring Luongo will get BETTER in his late 30's.
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#53 Pineapples

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

How do you confidently state that Vancouver lost simply because Luongo wasn't getting enough help, and then right after say the team structure is fine because it went to the finals?

Maybe...just maybe...we don't just lose because of the skaters, but sometimes win because of them too?

IMO, we have a solid team. Every team gives up the odd gaffe, and it's the franchise goaltender's job to bail the team out when they do. Luongo hasn't done that consistently in the playoffs since 2006-07. Insanity would be simply trying it over and over again. Ignorance would be figuring Luongo will get BETTER in his late 30's.


Luongo can stand on his head every game, but he won't win a playoff series if the team isn't scoring. And they haven't been in the last 2 series. The team doesn't need restructuring, it is just missing a piece or 2.

Luongo's shown he can bail his team out in the finals more than once, which is all you can ask of a goalie. To suggest that Schneider is already capable of that is just blind faith.

Schneider will get the better return to help this team overall. Combine that with Lu's experience (also hasn't blown a game since in boston) and you have the reasoning to trade Cory instead.
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#54 Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

We're not talking about 1 year here - or 2, or 3...

Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs. What makes it even worse is that he stands on his head one series (St. Louis, Nashville, San Jose), only to melt down the next (Chicago x 2, Boston). At least if he were consistently average, a deep enough team would be able to have a shot at every series.


You said "Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all," since that first year in Vancouver.

Then you say "Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs."

The last 5 years his GAA:


1.77
2.52
3.22
2.56
3.57

Average: 2.73

So he has 3 years that are better than his average and 2 that are worse.

As far as consistency - I agree - it's something he lacks, something Schneider has lacked (as a starter so far this year) but most important, the Canucks have lacked scoring consistency when it counts. As I said in my previous post, 8 goals in 5 games, and 8 goals in 7 games does not make good odds to win a playoff round. No goalie could have helped the Canucks win those series.
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#55 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

Luongo can stand on his head every game, but he won't win a playoff series if the team isn't scoring. And they haven't been in the last 2 series. The team doesn't need restructuring, it is just missing a piece or 2.


Canucks scored 2 goals in the first two games against the Kings. That was enough to win games 3-5, with the goaltending Schneider was giving us. To win a series against a hot team with an elite goaltender, you need that kind of goaltending.

And we certainly didn't have trouble scoring goals in the 3 series we played against the Chicago Blackhawks. But I don't have to re-hash how those series turned out. Speaking of the Hawks, they are now 6-0, and very much looking to be a contender in the West. If we face them in the playoffs, which goaltender would you feel more comfortable having in net?


Luongo's shown he can bail his team out in the finals more than once, which is all you can ask of a goalie. To suggest that Schneider is already capable of that is just blind faith.


It doesn't matter how good a goalie plays in 3/7 games in a series, if he doesn't even give you A CHANCE to win the 4th game.


Schneider will get the better return to help this team overall. Combine that with Lu's experience (also hasn't blown a game since in boston) and you have the reasoning to trade Cory instead.


There's a reason why Schneider will get a better return. Everyone knows that, right now, he's a better goalie, not to mention cheaper, and with his whole career ahead of him. His stats last year put Luongo's to shame. They weren't even CLOSE!

Edited by D-Money, 28 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

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#56 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

You said "Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all," since that first year in Vancouver.

Then you say "Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs."

The last 5 years his GAA:


1.77
2.52
3.22
2.56
3.57

Average: 2.73

So he has 3 years that are better than his average and 2 that are worse.

As far as consistency - I agree - it's something he lacks, something Schneider has lacked (as a starter so far this year) but most important, the Canucks have lacked scoring consistency when it counts.  As I said in my previous post, 8 goals in 5 games, and 8 goals in 7 games does not make good odds to win a playoff round.  No goalie could have helped the Canucks win those series.


Pointing to how good he played nearly 7 years ago proves nothing for today. Everything that has happened since then has indicated that he will never be that good again.

Also, you said "his last 5 years"...not true. You're forgetting the 2007-08 season, where Luongo completely crapped the bed in the stretch-drive, being the major cause of us missing the playoffs entirely.

And lastly, saying Schneider lacks consistency because of 1 bad game on opening night? Seriously?

Edited by D-Money, 28 January 2013 - 03:19 PM.

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#57 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

You said "Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all," since that first year in Vancouver.


BTW, not sure what you are saying there, those stats are legitimate, and accurate. They are based on the 1441 shots he has faced, the 1309 saves he made, the 132 goals he let in, in the 2,869 minutes he played (which works out to 47.82 games played).


Then you say "Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs."...

...So he has 3 years that are better than his average and 2 that are worse.


I'm talking about how his stats compared to the average starting goaltender in each year of the playoffs, not "better than his average".

Edited by D-Money, 28 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.

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#58 nuckin_futz

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

Management does not have confidence that Luongo can win it all. As evidenced by the fact that Lou did not get the start in Game 6 vs Chicago 2011. He has developed a habit of getting vented on the road in the playoffs.

I am sure they wanted to give Schneider a start in the Boston series when the wheels were falling off but couldn't pull the trigger.

Up 2-0 going to Boston. No problems. Luongo had been solid.
Game three. Luongo gets vented. Crap happens, he's still our guy, still up 2-1.
Game 4, team can't score, Luongo can't stop pucks. .......... Do we make a change? Well Luongo's been solid at home. Start Luongo.
Game 5, Luongo is brilliant in a 1-0 win. So how do you not start him in game 6?
Game 6, more of the same on the road. Team can't score, Luongo can't stop pucks. Well Luongo's been solid at home. Start Luongo.
Game 7, Everyone goes home unhappy. That is unless you're on a flight to Boston.

To be fair, Luongo was the main reason the Canucks won more than 1 game in the series. The team simply could not score. However, it's clear to me anyways that management doesn't have much confidence in him being the guy. Further evidenced by Schneider starting the last 3 against LA.
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#59 Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

BTW, not sure what you are saying there, those stats are legitimate, and accurate. They are based on the 1441 shots he has faced, the 1309 saves he made, the 132 goals he let in, in the 2,869 minutes he played (which works out to 47.82 games played).




I'm talking about how his stats compared to the average starting goaltender in each year of the playoffs, not "better than his average".


Got those handy?
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#60 Ginu

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

I think both goalies are being showcased and with the right deal any of them can be traded to maximize some of the missing gaps which Canucks is dealing with.

Everyone knows Lu's potential, but Schneider is not fully proven in order to maximize his trade value...

Imagine a team which is in dire need of a goalie (there are a few teams in desperate needs of goalies) and MG can offer Lu or Schneider...

With that being said, we have had some big contracts sitting in the press box for over a season, so I don't see what the big thing is to keep both goalies until the right deals are presented...

Think of Lu being a wildcard and Schneider morphing into one (if not one already)...
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