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#181 CHIPS

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

And of course these threads pops up after a big loss. ^^

But that said I won't mind having Lindy Ruff as an assistant coach.

Edited by CHIPS, 25 February 2013 - 02:12 PM.

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#182 L'Orange

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

Nuck, nice to have you back. You were gone for awhile there.



I'm not worried about this game, I am worried about the playoffs, re-occuring problems are.. well re-occuring with AV, if you want regular season success, he's your man, but if you want a coach that will make the difference in the playoffs. I'm not so sure.

Actually it wasn't very successful. We got absolutely dominated by Chicago and Cory Schneider alone stole us a point, The Dallas game wasn't great, we started out like pylons defensively and had some other bad moments, the NSH game was a snoozefest. And tonight our poor defensive play was exploited since we didn't get top notch goaltending.

This team is carried by goaltending, and with a team with this much talent and depth, it shouldn't be.



The goaltending hasn't been relied on to carry the team and as the deciding factor on whether we win or lose in the past 2 years like we have this year.


Thanks Smashian. Good to be back.

You make great points regarding Vigneault. He is a regular season coach. He has no place coaching this core of players anymore. It should seem obvious to any Canuck fan that he lacks the ability to get this team to the next level.

Compound that with his poor use of the media to call out his players and you have a coach that has run his course here. I can only hope that Gillis strikes while the iron is hot and gets Lindy Ruff to consider the job. Lindy has been an excellent coach and his hockey knowledge and dedication is exactly what we need to get to the next level.

Your point regarding the Canucks relying on goaltending too much is spot on as well.

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 25 February 2013 - 02:07 PM.

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#183 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

If I were ownership I'd fire Gillis and bring back Burke, the only GM who actually had the balls to make a bold move.
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#184 Common sense

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

Just like the Canucks, they seem to be stuck in the hopes off that next year will be different. The thing is when you look outside of the team to find faults, you will find them, but to do so you are overlooking your own teams deficiencies.

Now look at what @canuck73_3 said: "missing their top scorer, has a 2nd line centre that needs 2 surgeries, 2 of their top 6 defenseman injured as well..."

This guy is so confident that the Canucks would have won it all outside those injuries. But he fails to overlook the events preeding to the downfall in the first round. Prior to making the playoffs, the canucks won the PT simply because other team couldn't get it done. Also, they were coming into the playoffs with no momentum. They were playing .500 hockey by the time they made the playoffs.

Again, you can always find someone else to blame for your own fault, but at the end, it won't let you go anywhere. The reason why AV has failed 6 out of 7 times, is cause he (along with the rest of the coaching staff and management) always blame the fault on something else. Real winners go out and take it with no excuses.

NEXT.


Shocking that you missed my entire point, although that was going to happen with you based on your laughable assumption that the coaching staff needs to be fired.

Edited by Common sense, 25 February 2013 - 03:07 PM.

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#185 DeNiro

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

Despite their poor play, a win tomorrow and they will end February 8-2-2. Not sure how much better it could be unless people expect us to win every game.

If this team actually starts playing up to their ability, they can be a very good team.
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#186 TheCammer

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

Realize, Luongo has been here every single season that AV has been here. The first season AV employed a solid defensive system because our offense was horrendous, but it's quite clear that goaltending is the reason AV won that Jack Adams trophy. I think he did a pretty good job in the 10-11 season, but his message is not getting through anymore. It is time for a change. We have the players to get the job done and it is time for AV and co. to go.

If they don't have a successful season & some playoff success this year I think you might have a valid argument. Right now with a 10-4-4 record firing Av doesn't make sense.
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#187 MJDDawg

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:58 PM

I still think that AV is a good coach, and is probably the right coach for the core of this team right now. He's basically grown with the core group of this team, coming up from the Moose with Juice, Kes, and Burr. There's a lot of trust in these guys along with the twins to run the room, do things the right way, and to generally show new teammates the Vancouver way. Not sure how any new coach would go over with the core.

Having said that, the embarrassment yesterday was eerily similar and reminded me of the blowouts in Boston in the finals a couple of years ago where it seemed that when there was a bit of adversity, be it a bad call by the ref or the shifts following a goal scored by the other team when the crowd was rockin, our team just seemed to implode. I'm not saying that those blow outs in Beantown and last night's debacle were AV's fault, but the apparent inability to make adjustments or stem the tide is worrisome.

For example, in the Detroit game last night, why not call a time out at some point to settle things down. Why not pull Lui when, notwithstanding the goals that went in off other players, it was very evident early on in the game that he didn't have his "A" game last night. He seemed off balance, was on his knees a lot, and generally seemed to be guessing on many shots. Putting Schneids in when it was still a close game (assuming he doesn't have the flu like Booth does) could have stemmed Detroit's momentum and might have made a difference. This is when coaching can make a difference.

Maybe it's not the coaching at all but the players we have, in which case we have bigger problems. Either way, it doesn't in-still much confidence that things will be any different again with this group come the playoffs this year when you see how they again reacted to adversity last night.

Edited by MJDDawg, 25 February 2013 - 04:31 PM.

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#188 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

Thanks Smashian. Good to be back.

You make great points regarding Vigneault. He is a regular season coach. He has no place coaching this core of players anymore. It should seem obvious to any Canuck fan that he lacks the ability to get this team to the next level.

Compound that with his poor use of the media to call out his players and you have a coach that has run his course here. I can only hope that Gillis strikes while the iron is hot and gets Lindy Ruff to consider the job. Lindy has been an excellent coach and his hockey knowledge and dedication is exactly what we need to get to the next level.

Your point regarding the Canucks relying on goaltending too much is spot on as well.


I ment nuck nit as he usually trolls me and I haven't seen him around in awhile, but great to have you back aswell.

I would also love Ruff, experienced and a motivator, has done quite a bit with not much aside from goaltending, would love to see what he could do with the goaltending and then also having the offensive force and defensive prowess. This team should be favorites for the cup IMO, as we are the deepest team and have the top tier talent in every position to be a great team, but this team just doesn't achieve there ultimate potential with AV, he doesn't motivate, doesn't make necessary adjustments, exc.

It would be nice to get a change, and I am hoping we do as I see this as our greatest chance to win a cup this era, I think this team is every bit as good if not better than the 10/11 team, they just need to play like it.
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#189 Kack Zassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

If I were ownership I'd fire Gillis and bring back Burke, the only GM who actually had the balls to make a bold move.


Yeah because those bold moves really paid off for the Leafs...
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#190 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

And of course these threads pops up after a big loss. ^^

But that said I won't mind having Lindy Ruff as an assistant coach.


love that idea.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#191 Dogbyte

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

I put more effort into pissing than you do thinking.
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#192 BigRedMachine

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

RUFF TO THE RESCUE!

RUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFF!


Lindy Ruff would hate this team.

Edited by BigRedMachine, 25 February 2013 - 09:13 PM.

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#193 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

Lindy Ruff would hate this team.


Lindy Ruff would bring back accountability and hard work to our dressing room. This team gets outworked almost every game now at least for good portions of the game anyway.

Ruff was a phenomenal coach with a much worse team. He got the most out of his teams for a long time even when they did not have the best talent or lost big free agents in the summer. Once thing he cannot be accused of is not holding his guys accountable and not giving a crap about his team's performance, good or bad. This team could use some actual emotion from the coaching staff. Maybe then it might rub off on our lobotomized players.

And hey for all the AV whiners talking about his Jack Adams award (as if it actually matters now) guess what? Ruff has one too.....and with a much worse team.

I think Ruff would jump at the chance to be able to show what he can do with the top tier talent on the Canucks.
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#194 Aladeen

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

Everyone has a right to an opinion and to discuss it here.

Deal with it or stop posting!

keep whining about it can't get anymore pathetic.
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#195 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:34 PM

A coach like Ruff does not come along often. If MG passes on yet another highly talented coach and AV flames out again this year in the playoffs, they will probably BOTH be fired.

Why do you think Ruff got fired? To preserve Regier's job I bet.

MG can only keep doing the same thing for so long before ownership demands a change somewhere. Does Gillis want it to be him?

I also think that people can only point to regular season success against a weak division and say it is impossible to fire AV for so long too. The issues that have killed this team in the playoffs are still alive and well and their play this season shows it.

Why waste another year hoping for a different result?
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#196 Aladeen

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

A coach like Ruff does not come along often. If MG passes on yet another highly talented coach and AV flames out again this year in the playoffs, they will probably BOTH be fired.

Why do you think Ruff got fired? To preserve Regier's job I bet.

MG can only keep doing the same thing for so long before ownership demands a change somewhere. Does Gillis want it to be him?

I also think that people can only point to regular season success against a weak division and say it is impossible to fire AV for so long too. The issues that have killed this team in the playoffs are still alive and well and their play this season shows it.

Why waste another year hoping for a different result?

You assume a lot. Your first assumption is that Ruff is just eagerly waiting to be hired by the Canucks. He lives back east and I bet doesn't want to be that far from his family etc.

Lets say we do get Ruff and the result is a first or second round loss... is it now time to fire Ruff? Ruff had many chances with Buffalo to bring a cup there, he couldn't... why would people think he is more likely to bring the Cup to Vancouver than AV? The Exact same reasons everyone wants AV gone are the reasons Ruff lost his job :picard:

But I guess the CDC GM of the Minnesota Wild is more of an expert than Gillis, hey you should want Gillis to keep AV that way when he gets fired I am sure you're the next in line for GM of the Canucks :rolleyes:
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#197 nucklehead

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

another loss, another miles.p pessimistic panic thread :frantic:

Seriously. Seems like they don't teach that saying anymore:"It's better to keep your mouth shut and seem like a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. So many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start.
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#198 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

You assume a lot. Your first assumption is that Ruff is just eagerly waiting to be hired by the Canucks. He lives back east and I bet doesn't want to be that far from his family etc.

Lets say we do get Ruff and the result is a first or second round loss... is it now time to fire Ruff? Ruff had many chances with Buffalo to bring a cup there, he couldn't... why would people think he is more likely to bring the Cup to Vancouver than AV? The Exact same reasons everyone wants AV gone are the reasons Ruff lost his job :picard:

But I guess the CDC GM of the Minnesota Wild is more of an expert than Gillis, hey you should want Gillis to keep AV that way when he gets fired I am sure you're the next in line for GM of the Canucks :rolleyes:


You also assume a lot. Of course Ruff would take another head coaching gig in the best league in the world, even if it meant moving to the left coast. And as for not hiring him because of his inability to get it done in Buffalo, well why hire any coach whose fingers are not adorned with cup rings? Surely this means they could never get it done (umm...Keenan in NY, Bylsma in Pit, Sutter in LA). It's about the mix, and it's becoming clear AV may not be the best match for the players we have.

But hey...don't panic. Wait a couple more seasons until it's painfully obvious and the window for this group is shut.
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#199 kassian's lost tooth

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

I put more effort into pissing than you do thinking.


Then you must have a tinkle problem.
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#200 zejono

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

AV has to leave, he has a weird way of treating players like ballard when rome was here. After he does that they play worse cause they feel like crap.
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#201 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

Yes, he tends to mismanage games in the sense that he leaves things the way they are. Changing things up won't necessarily do anything either, so inaction =/= problem.

What worried me was his inexplicable move to put Edler back on his weak side and pair him up with Garrison, even though the two haven't seemed to mesh very well despite playing together for months. What surprised me was that he also used this pairing against the Datsyuk line. It's no wonder Detroit had a hay day - our top pairing had questionable chemistry and our best D-man was on his bad side.

I quote Edler (paraphrasing): "I enjoy playing on the left side but if the situation arises that I am needed on the right, well, then, I am happy to play on that side too". In other words, he hates the right side, and thanks to a dumb move by the coaching staff he really got his a$$ handed to him in Detroit.

MANAGE THE PLAYERS PLEASE
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There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#202 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

You assume a lot. Your first assumption is that Ruff is just eagerly waiting to be hired by the Canucks. He lives back east and I bet doesn't want to be that far from his family etc.

Lets say we do get Ruff and the result is a first or second round loss... is it now time to fire Ruff? Ruff had many chances with Buffalo to bring a cup there, he couldn't... why would people think he is more likely to bring the Cup to Vancouver than AV? The Exact same reasons everyone wants AV gone are the reasons Ruff lost his job :picard:

But I guess the CDC GM of the Minnesota Wild is more of an expert than Gillis, hey you should want Gillis to keep AV that way when he gets fired I am sure you're the next in line for GM of the Canucks :rolleyes:


Like all coaches, Ruff's message seemed to go stale in Buffalo....same as AV's has in Vancouver. That doesn't mean it would not be effective with the Canucks, just like AV's message would probably be effective with whatever other team hired him as coach. You are missing the point that it has little to do with who is a better or more accomplished coach. They both are in their own ways. It comes down to how does MG shake the apathy off this team? There is only one viable way and that is to replace the coach.

Ruff stated he is eager to get back to coaching....but he said nothing about it being geographically limited to the east so until he does it is probably reasonable to assume he would look at any opportunities that come his way.

Ruff never had a team as talented on paper as this Canucks team is. This team just needs someone who can actually get that talent to show up at important times.

Hiring Ruff cannot be any worse than sticking with AV. He has not won anything in 7 years here......so you would give a new coach one season to win? I would bet that this team would not get outworked under Ruff like they do under AV.......and that is the biggest hurdle at this point.

As for me wanting to be GM of the Canucks, I would not want that job at all actually. Too much BS for what its worth.
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#203 Vansicle

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:35 PM

You assume a lot. Your first assumption is that Ruff is just eagerly waiting to be hired by the Canucks. He lives back east and I bet doesn't want to be that far from his family etc.

Lets say we do get Ruff and the result is a first or second round loss... is it now time to fire Ruff? Ruff had many chances with Buffalo to bring a cup there, he couldn't... why would people think he is more likely to bring the Cup to Vancouver than AV? The Exact same reasons everyone wants AV gone are the reasons Ruff lost his job :picard:

But I guess the CDC GM of the Minnesota Wild is more of an expert than Gillis, hey you should want Gillis to keep AV that way when he gets fired I am sure you're the next in line for GM of the Canucks :rolleyes:

So there's really no reason not to hire Ruff since both have zero cups.
I think the point you seem to be either missing or willflly ignoring is that every coach's message has a shelf life. Ruff's expired in Buffalo, and AV's seems to have expired here. Granted, the talent level in Vancouver is much greater, which makes it easier to say "but we're x,y, and z for the month of February, and Presidents Trophys, and Game 7". But this team plays uninspired hockey. And while at first blush it might make sense to blame the players, the odds are far greater that one moving part (AV) is faulty rather than 20+ moving parts. Think about it.
If you hit refresh on the messenger, you refresh the message. It might just be the spark this team needs to take it to the next level.
That said, I still think this team can play well enough despite AV. The downside to that is they are not playing as well as they could be. We've all seen it.

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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#204 Mauii

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:42 PM

I would like to see a coach with Sutter like qualities/approach. A good motivator, plays with heart who cares about the players and uses their strengths. None of this favoritism nonsense. I don't know much about Ruff. I get the impression his ability might be equal to AV's. Off topic...with the way things are going for the Hawks...do we really want the Blackhawks to take the Presidents' Trophy away from us??

Edited by Mauii, 25 February 2013 - 11:52 PM.

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#205 Aladeen

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:51 PM

You also assume a lot. Of course Ruff would take another head coaching gig in the best league in the world, even if it meant moving to the left coast. And as for not hiring him because of his inability to get it done in Buffalo, well why hire any coach whose fingers are not adorned with cup rings? Surely this means they could never get it done (umm...Keenan in NY, Bylsma in Pit, Sutter in LA). It's about the mix, and it's becoming clear AV may not be the best match for the players we have.

But hey...don't panic. Wait a couple more seasons until it's painfully obvious and the window for this group is shut.

That is 90% of the reasons that people state why they want to get rid of AV god you guys are a bunch of hypocrites. You are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes in the Canucks Locker room, don't speak as if you are.

AV takes all the slack when the team loses but is given zero credit to the accomplishments of this team. You think Ruff would have done a better job at the helm? Offer up some proof.
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#206 Aladeen

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

Like all coaches, Ruff's message seemed to go stale in Buffalo....same as AV's has in Vancouver. That doesn't mean it would not be effective with the Canucks, just like AV's message would probably be effective with whatever other team hired him as coach. You are missing the point that it has little to do with who is a better or more accomplished coach. They both are in their own ways. It comes down to how does MG shake the apathy off this team? There is only one viable way and that is to replace the coach.

Ruff stated he is eager to get back to coaching....but he said nothing about it being geographically limited to the east so until he does it is probably reasonable to assume he would look at any opportunities that come his way.

Ruff never had a team as talented on paper as this Canucks team is. This team just needs someone who can actually get that talent to show up at important times.

Hiring Ruff cannot be any worse than sticking with AV. He has not won anything in 7 years here......so you would give a new coach one season to win? I would bet that this team would not get outworked under Ruff like they do under AV.......and that is the biggest hurdle at this point.

As for me wanting to be GM of the Canucks, I would not want that job at all actually. Too much BS for what its worth.

Let's see Jack Adams, Divisions, Conferences, President's trophies - twice, um not to mention the individual hardware awarded to his players, including Hart, Jennings, Lindsay, Selke not to mention 1 win away from a cup I guess all that hardware would indicate that AV doesn't get anything from his players :rolleyes: Go back to your fantasy league, I am curious where you end up there. :lol:
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#207 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:03 AM

Let's see Jack Adams, Divisions, Conferences, President's trophies - twice, um not to mention the individual hardware awarded to his players, including Hart, Jennings, Lindsay, Selke not to mention 1 win away from a cup I guess all that hardware would indicate that AV doesn't get anything from his players :rolleyes: Go back to your fantasy league, I am curious where you end up there. :lol:


Seriously man, does anyone really care about regular season accomplishments like President's trophies that come on the back of being in the weakest division in the NHL?

He has had 7 years and gotten out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once.........so really, who cares about the useless regular season accolades? It is about how does this group win a cup. AV has accomplished exactly zero with this group based on that benchmark.

I get that AV, the core players, and fans like you think runner up in the Stanley Cup is good enough as long as we keep winning President's Trophies.

Puuuuuuulease......those are the useless arguments of people who realize their coach has done jack squat when it REALLY counts.

You are purposely obtuse as to the actual point I was making and that's your prerogative Just don't respond to my posts though if you have no real point to make.

And it is hilarious that you can honestly say AV has gotten enough out of his 23 man roster EVER in the playoffs. Good luck arguing that one buddy.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 26 February 2013 - 12:06 AM.

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#208 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

not to mention feasting on the NW weak teams.

Their record against winning teams speaks for itself.



just doing my job as a canuck fan. As a fan who has game jerseys and goes to tickets games, i have more right than most people here to voice my opinion. Don't like it, don't click my threads.


If you're a fan of the "Tickets", what gives you the right to criticize the Canucks? :bigblush:



ALSO: Just because you "have game jerseys" and "go to games", doesn't make you any more of a fan than a naked person listening to the game on the radio. The fact that you think you have more of a right to voice your opinion because you go to games shows your ignorance, and speaks to the credibility of your high and mighty opinions.
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/=S=/


#209 Aladeen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:10 AM

So there's really no reason not to hire Ruff since both have zero cups.
I think the point you seem to be either missing or willflly ignoring is that every coach's message has a shelf life. Ruff's expired in Buffalo, and AV's seems to have expired here. Granted, the talent level in Vancouver is much greater, which makes it easier to say "but we're x,y, and z for the month of February, and Presidents Trophys, and Game 7". But this team plays uninspired hockey. And while at first blush it might make sense to blame the players, the odds are far greater that one moving part (AV) is faulty rather than 20+ moving parts. Think about it.
If you hit refresh on the messenger, you refresh the message. It might just be the spark this team needs to take it to the next level.
That said, I still think this team can play well enough despite AV. The downside to that is they are not playing as well as they could be. We've all seen it.

You're Hockey IQ has already been established... The bolded statement is, as AV would put it, just stupid. The likelyhood of something going wrong with 20+ moving parts vs one part in anything is much greater from sports, to computers, to mechanics... you should take your own advice and think about what you post before you post it.

You say at first blush it makes sense to blame the players - whatever the hell this means... though sadly I think I infer the meaning, Who needs to be blamed for what exactly? Leading the division? having a hiccup at the end of a road trip against a strong opponent? making the playoffs yet again under coach AV when the Canucks inevitably make the playoffs?

There is no one to blame because there is nothing to blame on anyone. Its not like they are at the bottom of the conference being outscored 8-3 every other night.

All you guys want to hang AV for your imagined slights, like he ruins young players? yet I never hear talk about their junior teams or the wolves or any other factor other than AV. Yah he ruined Shirokov? why couldn't he crack the Panther's roster but AV should have put him on the top line? give me a break.

You guys keep up your whining a bitching and at the end of the day AV will still be coach cause the bottom line is the most important thing, HE WINS GAMES, HE MAKES THE PLAYOFFS, HE IS PROFESSIONAL, THE CANUCKS HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN THEY HAVE UNDER HIS TENURE...... EVER.

That is what matters in hockey, that is what matters to GMs, and that is what matters to Owners. Until he starts losing and misses the playoffs his job is safe, and for you so called fans that would hope the Canucks lose and miss playoffs to have AV fired, here is a newsflash, you aren't fans.
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#210 37yrsncounting

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

All that shows me is that the Canucks are simply not good enough to beat the teams that are championship callibre.

Second - best...and nobody cares.

NEXT argument.


I care, president trophies and winning hockey is better than being an Islander's fan or a blue jackets fan
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