Wings succeeding despite size etc.

[DIBdaQUIB]

Detroit never ceases to amaze me. It doesn't seem to matter who they dress; everyone ends up looking like a Selke candidate on the ice.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

To be honest, the roster helps too. Detroit despite some of them are not players that have mad stats, they are much more poised with puck. Look at them. Some of our players do the same old predictable move, which is throw it up the boards. Red Wings player avoid doing that, and try to evade the opponent and do something less predictable.

[M A K A V E L I 96]

Detroit was 1 loss away from not making the playoffs and 1 game away from getting knocked out in the first round. The 3-1 lead has more to do with all of the Chicago stars disappearing and taking bad penalties than what Detroit is doing. Good for them for potentially making it to the WCF, but this isn't the Detroit of old.

[Vansicle]

Did you watch this season? The twins stood up for themselves very well during the post whistle scrums.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Detroit was 1 loss away from not making the playoffs and 1 game away from getting knocked out in the first round. The 3-1 lead has more to do with all of the Chicago stars disappearing and taking bad penalties than what Detroit is doing. Good for them for potentially making it to the WCF, but this isn't the Detroit of old.

[bluesman60]

I agree with some of what you say but I also think this is being over analysed.

I can't shake this feeling that the players are a huge part of the problem that resulted in AV being canned. We had one of the highest scoring teams in the league, go to the 7th game for the Cup and don't get it done, then have 2 seasons where the goal scoring disappears and we get swept in the 1st round. Really does it seem plausable that everyone would just forget how to put the puck in the net? A hot PP that suddenly can't score in over 25 tries? I think the players were playing to get a coaching change and that means that we have a huge attitude problem on this team. Without a major shakeup, we will not be in the running anytime soon. A new coach is the only move that MG has at this point but does anyone seriously think that a new coach is going to cure all our goal scoring, PP problems. Trading Luongo and maybe Ballard will give very little room for change with a dropping cap. We are more than a 3rd line center away from having the parts to make the 7th game again.

It was time for a coaching change inlight of what has transpired but without a team shakeup, it won't matter after the same players prove themselves to the coach and start resting on their laurels again. When reliable players like Higgins and Hansen all but disappear, it says a lot about character.

[DeNiro]

The Wings younger players have been very impressive as well.

Players like Nyquist, Smith, and Andersson have all been solid. And then their 26 and 27 year old guys like Brunner, Kindl, and Abdelkader have also been rock solid.

It just goes to show that older teams can still do damage in the playoffs if the roster is rejuvinated with youth and skill. The wings core players have a supporting cast of young energetic players who are working their butts off right now. Something the Canucks could use big time next season.

[Raph]

The Wings younger players have been very impressive as well.

Players like Nyquist, Smith, and Andersson have all been solid. And then their 26 and 27 year old guys like Brunner, Kindl, and Abdelkader have also been rock solid.

It just goes to show that older teams can still do damage in the playoffs if the roster is rejuvinated with youth and skill. The wings core players have a supporting cast of young energetic players who are working their butts off right now. Something the Canucks could use big time next season.

[jigsaw99]

The Canucks don't have any superstar players.

[DeNiro]

Canucks have or had youth to work with. The problem is that if they don't fit the AV mold, they are regulated to 5 mins a game or "sheltered minutes". How does a young guy improve his faceoffs if he never takes any? How are they suppose learn the defensive game when they only play non-important minutes of a game? How do you hone their offensive skills when you play them with plugs?

[BedBeats™2.0]

Duders, i reckon you may have taken MG's comments differently than i have.

I always thought of MG's concept of following Holland's way, had more to do about patience with drafted, scouted kids in their affiliate team, than ever being an immaculate puck possession team with skill and a sound d-corps.

THAT playing style is what it is...by proxy of Bowman, Holland,and ownership...it continued with Lewis and Babs. Gillis also requested a similar style of the coaches as well.

You are also referencing 2 (though there was 3) coaches that have had an astonishing # of amazing players thru their system, but fostered the same style of Hockey. Which is what modern day farm teams/coaches do.

People are easy to poo-poo on AV/Bones/Brown, but often forget that the Moose/Wolves prospects follow the exact same systems as the Canucks.

The Wings rosters/coaches were ALWAYS complimented by additional players that Bowman wanted:

"On a really good team the role players -the foot soldiers-stand out to me. You cannot have enough of them. Game in and game out their performance is very level and their work ethic is good. Ive always felt the most important thing is to have role players who accept their role. Sometimes its not an easy role. It means no power plays, and its usually crunch time when they have to perform. Role players are the most important component of good teams." -Scotty Bowman

[AVS19]

DET. succeeding despit size because they ahve HEART AND DETERMINATION. something thats been lacking in the canucks dressing room since 1993

[BedBeats™2.0]

"coaching"!!!!

Babcock is a superior strategist and a motivator of talent. He puts players in positions to succeed and employs a system that allows players to be creative yet disciplined. The Nucks have not had a coach that comes close to what Babcock brings. Av's system was to put players into a position he wanted them ot succeed in and if the struggled, relegate them to the bench or a minor role. Look at Detroit's third line...a bunch of rookies that struggled in the early part of the season but Babcock stuck with them and developed them into a force this playoffs. He didn't send them to the AHL or 4th line after some mistakes. He didn't play them 5 minutes per game onteh 4th all season and then put them on the 1st line in the playoffs!

Another example of Detroit's "system" (or lack thereof)...the WIngs D-zone break-outs are varied and creative. Chicago is having a terrible time hemming Detroit in because they don't follow any predictable pattern on their breakouts. Sometimes up the boards, sometimes, they skate it our, sometimes they make a pass through their crease up the middle to break out. This is coaching and confidence that the Nucks simply don't have.

Another difference is the poise the Detroit players show. No after the whistle chirping or retaliation. No mouthing off. They are in the face of the Hawk stars every second but don't take stupid penalties and seldom get into verbal battles. Extremely disciplined and frustrating (look at Toews) to play against...Zetterberg is driving him nuts.

[oldnews]

I have to laugh.

How many times has it been suggested that even a monkey could win with the lineup AV was given?

I think it's closer to the truth to say that it won't be easy to upgrade on AV, and that the idea that anyone could coach a roster like Vancouver's is kinda like a monkey's perspective on what it actually takes to coach in the NHL.

I had a similar argument with someone I didn't find particularly insightful earlier this year. His claim was that the RedWings were done. Aging core, their stars are smurfs - no chance against the big teams in the West - and not enough youth in the cupboards to replenish their aging roster. Moreover, he claimed that any idiot could have been successful behind their bench, and now that Lidstrom is gone, Babcock is being exposed as not a very good coach...

[THERETOOL]

Im not trying to denigrate the wings success so far in the playoffs , but if i was a millionaire I still wouldnt bet 5$ on them beating l.a , let alone boston and or pits .. they have been good ... and lucky ... lets not get carried away with our praise yet ... still a long way to the cup ..

[BedBeats™2.0]

I have to laugh.

How many times has it been suggested that even a monkey could win with the lineup AV was given?

I think it's closer to the truth to say that it won't be easy to upgrade on AV, and that the idea that anyone could coach a roster like Vancouver's is kinda like a monkey's perspective on what it actually takes to coach in the NHL.

I had a similar argument with someone I didn't find particularly insightful earlier this year. His claim was that the RedWings were done. Aging core, their stars are smurfs - no chance against the big teams in the West - and not enough youth in the cupboards to replenish their aging roster. Moreover, he claimed that any idiot could have been successful behind their bench, and now that Lidstrom is gone, Babcock is being exposed as not a very good coach...

[oldnews]

Heard something similar from a customer i was tending bar for, he was baiting me with such stupidity, a few seats over some drunk Sens fans let their opinion be heard.

And they were spot on. While they loved their Sens, it was clear they were Hockey fans too.

Basically they outlined to this blowhard (who was spouting such greatest hits like: The sisters are too soft. Dats is in decline. Zata is a terrible captain. AV/Babs have zero idea what to do...etc...) about injuries, the Canucks being crippled from lack of Malhotra/Kesler and enough RH shots on the PP, the similarities between the Wings and Canucks, how Gillis failed AV...and on and on.

It was actually pretty amazing to see other team's fans plainly understand what went wrong.

Suffice to say i bought them a pitcher.

[BedBeats™2.0]

Nice.

I'm just watching the Sens game, and while it looks like it could be their last this season, what a season they have had.

Really, they probably had a great shot in this series as well had Vokoun not intervened.

[oldnews]

For sure. Really wanted Alfie to have more fun and advance. In some ways they really were their own enemies in the form of turnovers. Its just killed them.

Now i am pulling for Iggy. Really want him to get a Cup.

Anyways...cheers Sens fans. You all deserved more.

But i digress...

[puckinaround]

Okay, aside from Know it all bartender guy and loose-monkey analogy guy, I think eveyone else understands what I was getting at. The Canucks look limp, and they need heart. Firing AV is a good start even though I respect him and thank him for leading us to a cup final. The next step is to light a fire under our limp emotionless team stars. Also the injury excuse is too played out. If we are injured we need a young, developed prospect to come up and perform well.