n00bxQb Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Ok at the beginning of the season I was thinking that higgins is just a fringe top6 forward. Although this is a popular belief his numbers just don't lie. currently he is on pace for 23 goals tieing his 2nd best of his career 49points which would be his 2nd best of his career usanlly a top 6player is expected to get a 50-60 points season minimum. Higgins is one point behind the 50 point margin. so at the moment i would say yes he is one. Over the past 3 seasons, in terms of production (points/82 games played) with at least 42 games played, the top 180 forwards have averaged 41.2 to 125.4 points/82 games. 50-60 points MINIMUM is a completely unrealistic expectation for a top 6 forward who is not a star player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferlands_Head Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I can't help but wonder if your complete inability to bring any sort of evidence to back up your argument is evidence of your laziness when posting or just laziness in thought. You think Higgins- Kesler- Santorelli is the best 2nd line in the league! I can't even take you seriously after that LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 The problem I have is, he's being compared league wide. Compare him to CUP CONTENDERS. That's what the Canucks should be. Hawks secondary guys behind Toews/Kane are: Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Versteeg, Shaw, Bickell Sharks secondary guys behind Thornton/Couture are: Burns, Marleau, Pavelski, Hertl, Wingels, Havlat Boston secondary guys behind Krejci/Lucic are: Iginla, Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Smith, Soderberg Los Angeles secondary guys behind Kopitar/Richards are: Carter, Brown, Williams, Toffoli, King, Stoll Pittsburgh gets a bit of slack because they have two top 5 forwards but... Neal, Kunitz, Jokinen, Dupuis, Sutter Canucks secondary guys behind Sedins are: Kesler, Santorelli, Higgins, Burrows, Hansen, Booth, Richardson Props to Santorelli for working his butt off and producing at a respectable rate, but the raw talent of this group is bad. Hard-work can get you places, but it's no surprise the cup winners of the last 5 years were loaded with offensive talent. I think Higgins would be best on the 3rd line, or alternate with Santorelli with a legit top 6 alongside Kesler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsPajamas Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It doesn't really matter if he is or not. With Hamhuis, Edler, Tanev, Bieksa, Garison, and Stanton on the back end the position to upgrade is forward. If there is room and a good deal is there then do it. If he is a top sixer then we will be lucky to have the depth to have him in the bottom six. I would start with center but as far as I know there isn't going to be a lot on the market, so go to the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pouria Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It doesn't really matter if he is or not. With Hamhuis, Edler, Tanev, Bieksa, Garison, and Stanton on the back end the position to upgrade is forward. If there is room and a good deal is there then do it. If he is a top sixer then we will be lucky to have the depth to have him in the bottom six. I would start with center but as far as I know there isn't going to be a lot on the market, so go to the wing. Edler for Bobby Ryan would've been a great trade. Too bad that didn't happen. Sedin-Sedin-Ryan Higgings-Kesler-Santo Burrows-Schroeder-Hansen Booth-Richardson-Kassian That forward corps would have made us a guaranteed cup contender. Perfect mix of grit, skills, size, toughness and character. 2 shutdown lines and all 4 can score goals. This lineup would at least have 6-7 20 goal scorers with 3 that could hit 30-40 goals. Ryan, with his size and skill could elevate the Sedins play and would've probably been the best 1st line in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsPajamas Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Edler for Bobby Ryan would've been a great trade. Too bad that didn't happen. Sedin-Sedin-Ryan Higgings-Kesler-Santo Burrows-Schroeder-Hansen Booth-Richardson-Kassian That forward corps would have made us a guaranteed cup contender. Perfect mix of grit, skills, size, toughness and character. 2 shutdown lines and all 4 can score goals. This lineup would at least have 6-7 20 goal scorers with 3 that could hit 30-40 goals. Ryan, with his size and skill could elevate the Sedins play and would've probably been the best 1st line in the West. Yet one injury in the top four and... Hamhuis - Garison Stanton - Tanev Alberts - Weber ... yeah no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It is really easy to be negative isn't it? How about some positive karma for a change. It will brighten your day believe me. Is it easier to be positive when reality only exists when winning? When the losing begins it is like the end of the world and this is a 'for profit'corporation at the end of the day. This team is winning games lately and Luo is playing very well. 20 wins - 10 losses. They lose six,they win seven. I ain't getting a cut or paycheque from this franchise to comfort me when the losing begins again. Why not just try to enjoy all the players and teams that play across the league and then one can always be a winner and be happy each and every night? Beats 43 years of reality.Ever hopeful is altruistic but one has to be a masochist to be forever positive going on five decades now. Shooting for happiness is a much more altruistic goal,though.I will give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 The problem I have is, he's being compared league wide. Compare him to CUP CONTENDERS. That's what the Canucks should be. Hawks secondary guys behind Toews/Kane are: Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Versteeg, Shaw, Bickell Sharks secondary guys behind Thornton/Couture are: Burns, Marleau, Pavelski, Hertl, Wingels, Havlat Boston secondary guys behind Krejci/Lucic are: Iginla, Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Smith, Soderberg Los Angeles secondary guys behind Kopitar/Richards are: Carter, Brown, Williams, Toffoli, King, Stoll Pittsburgh gets a bit of slack because they have two top 5 forwards but... Neal, Kunitz, Jokinen, Dupuis, Sutter Canucks secondary guys behind Sedins are: Kesler, Santorelli, Higgins, Burrows, Hansen, Booth, Richardson Props to Santorelli for working his butt off and producing at a respectable rate, but the raw talent of this group is bad. Hard-work can get you places, but it's no surprise the cup winners of the last 5 years were loaded with offensive talent. I think Higgins would be best on the 3rd line, or alternate with Santorelli with a legit top 6 alongside Kesler. The question posed wasn't "Is Higgins an elite top six forward" it was "Is Higgins a top six forward". What he's on pace for is an average top six forward. Last years Blackhawks and Bruins both had two of their top six on pace for less than 50 points. LA had one in their top six well below a 50 point pace and one on a 51 point pace. Last years Sharks had one well below a 50 point pace and two at a 52 point pace. Pittsburgh is the only one of your list that had 5 on pace for 70+ plus points with their 6th well below 50. Despite their offense they haven't made it past the second round the past three years. In conclussion, even by your standards, Higgins pace of 49 points should be regarded as top six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 How 'bout making the 3rd line even stronger/deeper? Someone yesterday suggested Edler/Hansen(I believe?) for McIlrath(huge D propect) & Stepan. Would leave us this: Daniel-Henrik-Burrows Higgins -Kesler -Santorelli Booth-Stepan-Kassian Archibald -Richardson -Weise ...xtras-Sestito, Schroeder, Dalpe If you've got three threatening lines, with chemistry, it's ideal. Better able to handle the spring grind, as injuries pop up sooner or later. We could easily carry all of these contracts, going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00bxQb Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 McIlrath sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapes-N-Canucks Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I think Kesler thinks he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickVega Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 If Higgy wasn't so snakebit to start the season he might even be close to a point per game right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kane Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Ideally you want a guy like Higgins on your third line, but he can fill in on the 2nd line as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Did you know Kesler, Higgins and Santorelli combine for 11 game winning goals? Game Winning Goals Kesler - 5 Higgins - 4 Daniel - 3 Santorelli - 2 Henrik - 1 Garrison - 1 Richardson - 1 Tanev - 1 Hansen - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yet one injury in the top four and... Hamhuis - Garison Stanton - Tanev Alberts - Weber ... yeah no Corrado could come in if Eddie was moved. No rules against picking up another d-man either, im sure there will be plenty of good 3rd pairing guys to be had at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsPajamas Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Corrado could come in if Eddie was moved. No rules against picking up another d-man either, im sure there will be plenty of good 3rd pairing guys to be had at the deadline. Because Corrado would make that so much better. Ahh yes actually there is a rule. It is called the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Is Higgins an appropriate 2nd liner on an elite team? No. Is he playing adequate to be a 2nd liner on our team? Yes. But then, so is Santa and we can't expect either player to necessarily keep up the pace... especially into the playoffs. (Though that would be great!) I've always liked Higgins - but the fact is that on a team with our talent, he is a 3rd liner and is good enough to "fill in" to the 2nd line when required.... but should not be relied on to produce 2nd line points on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steen Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 That whole line is playing top-6-like for sure, I'd keep him there unless something drastic happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 The question posed wasn't "Is Higgins an elite top six forward" it was "Is Higgins a top six forward". What he's on pace for is an average top six forward. Last years Blackhawks and Bruins both had two of their top six on pace for less than 50 points. LA had one in their top six well below a 50 point pace and one on a 51 point pace. Last years Sharks had one well below a 50 point pace and two at a 52 point pace. Pittsburgh is the only one of your list that had 5 on pace for 70+ plus points with their 6th well below 50. Despite their offense they haven't made it past the second round the past three years. In conclussion, even by your standards, Higgins pace of 49 points should be regarded as top six. Canucks are an elite team, so they should be compared to the very best. Look at those players consistency over the years and playoff production and all around skill and pedigree. The most invisible Canuck in the playoffs. I'm all about the playoffs. I use to get excited about regular season production, but kept noticing that everyone behind the Sedins have been useless in the post season. I don't have high hopes of a 2nd line consisting of Higgins/Santorelli in the playoffs. Hopefully Gillis picks up a top 6 guy and a depth D-man like Weaver. Sedin - Sedin - Burrows Top 6 - Kesler - Santorelli Higgins - Richardson - Hansen Booth - Schroeder - Kassian Sestito / Weise Hamhuis - Tanev Garrison - Weaver Stanton - Bieksa Luongo Lack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Lines get hot and lines get cold. Higgins, Santo and Kes are rolling, it's easy to call Higgins a bonafide 2nd liner right now, but when the current 2nd line cools down is he still a top 6 forward? Yes. It can't be measured in output alone, Higgins is so versatile that he fits in every role. He may be used on the 3rd, he may see time on the 1st, but I would absolutely classify him as top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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