(Proposal) VAN - MTL: Loading Up for Draft Day

[Noble 6]

The Canucks have done a pretty good job of bringing in some young players over the past year. We aren't too far off from getting that "critical mass" of prospects/young players as Linden said. With our ownership reportedly on board with this process, I would expect more of that this upcoming season. This upcoming draft is also looking to be a step up in caliber from the 2017 draft, so putting ourselves in a good position for that should be among our highest priorities even 11 months out. I think that ideally, next on our list to trade should be Edler. We currently have Edler, Hutton, Del Zotto, Wierchoch and Pedan on the left side with McEneny, Holm and Juolevi knocking on the door as well as Brisebois down the line. Moving Edler would improve our lottery position, open up a roster spot to protect someone like McEneny from waivers and could improve our position for the upcoming draft (assuming we receive picks). 

 

Montreal already made a couple of big moves this offseason by acquiring Drouin and re-signing Price. However, I still wouldn't be content with their roster outside of goaltending. They still desperately needs a top-6 center and some help on defense, specifically on the left side. Signing Alzner, contract aside, does help them with that, but they still only have Jordie Benn as their next best LD. Adding Edler depending would be a move that improves their defense in it's weakest area. With Price's huge new cap hit kicking in at the start of the 2018-19 season, the pressure should be on them to make a run now. 

 

With all that in mind, here is the proposal:

 

 

To MTL:

 

Edler

Granlund

3rd Round Pick 2018

 

To VAN:

 

1st Round Pick 2018 *(Conditional)

2nd Round Pick 2018 

2nd Round Pick 2018 (CHI)

Plekenec

 

*If the pick becomes a top-10 pick, Montreal can defer the pick to 2019 but would also surrender an additional 2019 3rd (these are the same conditions as the 1st Round pick the Blues traded to the Flyers).

 

 

Reasons for Vancouver:

 

The Canucks bolster their arsenal of 2018 picks, which should be vital to a rebuilding organization. We would have 5 picks in the top-62, including our high 1st. We lose Edler, which creates a void on our defense. 3 or more of Hutton, Del Zotto, McEneny, Juolevi and Wiercoch will have to fill those minutes. Hutton can have a chance to prove himself on the top powerplay unit. We avoid the possibility of losing a nice piece in McEneny to waivers as well. Plekenec is someone we receive as a cap dump from Montreal to keep the overall salary going each way similar and increase our return. He only has 1 year left on his contract. We lose a good young piece in Granlund as well, but I think the addition of those quality picks makes it worth it. We also have Plekenec who can replace him for one year. Overall, this move is entirely focused on the 2018 draft for the Canucks. The Canucks have a net loss of 100,000 in cap space, leaving them with 8,712,501 in cap space.

 

Reasons for Montreal:

 

The Canadiens add to their current roster to try and make a push for the Cup. Edler fills a hole on the left side in their top-4. He would play with either Weber or Petry as they are both right handed and Alzner and Edler are lefties. Benn drops down to the 3rd pair, and their depth on the backend is improved as well. Edler would not be in the spotlight on defense, as he would be behind Weber and most likely Alzner. He could improve their 2nd powerplay unit as well. Granlund is $5,100,000 cheaper than Plekenec as well as 10 years younger and he can step in a play a similar role in their bottom-6. They lose their high end picks in 2018, but are able to boost their roster as well as dump a severely overpaid veteran forward. As stated earlier, the net salary going each way is very similar. Montreal ends up adding 100,000 in cap space, leaving them with 9,262,023 in cap space. Their roster looks pretty much the same up front, but a considerable bit better on the backend:

 

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Lehkonen - Danault - Drouin

Granlund - Mitchell - Shaw

Byron - Holland - Hemsky

 

Alzner - Weber

Edler - Petry

Jo. Benn - Davidson

 

Price

Montoya

 

Comparable Trades:

 

Hamonic + 4th 2019 for 1st 2018 + 2nd 2018 + 2nd 2019

 

B. Schenn for 2017 27th overall + 2018 1st + Lehtera

 

I picked these two trades because they both have 2018 1st's involved. Hamonic got an extremely similar haul pretty much by himself, but we took back a terrible contract from Montreal. I think that along with including Granlund and a 3rd in addition to Edler should be around the same value. Calgary's picks will likely be in the same area as Montreal's as well. The Schenn trade includes the condition that I included, as well as a cap dump that's not as big as Plekenec.

 

What do you guys think?

 

[mll]

Julien and Bergevin have both said that Galchenyuk is not ready to play C and that he will remain a winger until he improves his defensive game and his understanding of the position.  At this stage it's unclear if he will ever play C for them.  This trade makes them a C short and doesn't address either of their needs.  

 

Plekanec is their matchup C and is only signed for one more year and they have the cap space and no internal budget.  It allows them to see if a guy like McCarron or De La Rose can take over that role.  

 

They need a legit C1 - last year it was Danault and/or a puck moving LD1 with speed because Weber doesn't carry the puck and isn't particularly fast. 

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

47 minutes ago, mll said:

Julien and Bergevin have both said that Galchenyuk is not ready to play C and that he will remain a winger until he improves his defensive game and his understanding of the position.  At this stage it's unclear if he will ever play C for them.  This trade makes them a C short and doesn't address either of their needs.  

 

Plekanec is their matchup C and is only signed for one more year and they have the cap space and no internal budget.  It allows them to see if a guy like McCarron or De La Rose can take over that role.  

 

They need a legit C1 - last year it was Danault and/or a puck moving LD1 with speed because Weber doesn't carry the puck and isn't particularly fast. 

Re: Danault

 

[canuckmen84]

5 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

To MTL:

 

Edler

Granlund

3rd Round Pick 2018

 

To VAN:

 

1st Round Pick 2018 *(Conditional)

2nd Round Pick 2018 

2nd Round Pick 2018 (CHI)

Plekenec

Why does Edler waive to go to Montreal ?

His NTC can not be ignored which is exactly what you have done.

[Noble 6]

25 minutes ago, canuckmen84 said:

Why does Edler waive to go to Montreal ?

His NTC can not be ignored which is exactly what you have done.

 

Edler has said in the past that while he would prefer to stay, he wouldn't want to be here if he wasn't wanted, or at least something along those lines. If management believes that it's time to move on, I believe they could get him to waive. They got Bieksa, Garrison, Burrows and Hansen to waive in the past. He would also have a chance on a better team to win. 

[canuckmen84]

19 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Edler has said in the past that while he would prefer to stay, he wouldn't want to be here if he wasn't wanted, or at least something along those lines. If management believes that it's time to move on, I believe they could get him to waive. They got Bieksa, Garrison, Burrows and Hansen to waive in the past. He would also have a chance on a better team to win. 

Last thing i heard was Edler wouldn't consider waiveing which i think as long as the Sedins are around he won't. It is possible as anything is possible.

What do we gain by trading a 20 goal scorer in granlund for a gamble draft pick? He's only 24 and on the upswing and i would hate to lose Shinkaruk for potentially nothing if those picks don't turn out...

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, canuckmen84 said:

Last thing i heard was Edler wouldn't consider waiveing which i think as long as the Sedins are around he won't. It is possible as anything is possible.

What do we gain by trading a 20 goal scorer in granlund for a gamble draft pick? He's only 24 and on the upswing and i would hate to lose Shinkaruk for potentially nothing if those picks don't turn out...

 

Granlund is someone I wouldn't include in our next forward core. He's a good young player, but I would include him in a deal that has a return like the one I proposed. I'd rather take a chance on finding a core player in the draft than not include Granlund as a roster replacement for Plekenec in this deal. I can understand why some people wouldn't, but I would given our crowded situation at forward. I was originally pondering sending Montreal Baertschi instead, but replacing Plekenec at center wouldn't even be an option then. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

10 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

To MTL:

 

Edler

Granlund

3rd Round Pick 2018

 

To VAN:

 

1st Round Pick 2018 *(Conditional)

2nd Round Pick 2018 

2nd Round Pick 2018 (CHI)

Plekenec

 

 

I think we need to keep it simpler.............

 

Edler

 

for

 

Mtl. 2018-2nd + Juulsen

 

I think that fits in with our age group and adds a pick...............beside he looks like Bieska

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

A bigger trade if you would like, would be....................

 

Edler and Ericksson 40% cap retained

 

for

 

Juulsen + MTL 2018 1st + Chi 2018 2nd

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

I do believe Edler has said he would accept a trade if the team no longer wanted him

[canuckmen84]

2 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Granlund is someone I wouldn't include in our next forward core. He's a good young player, but I would include him in a deal that has a return like the one I proposed. I'd rather take a chance on finding a core player in the draft than not include Granlund as a roster replacement for Plekenec in this deal. I can understand why some people wouldn't, but I would given our crowded situation at forward. I was originally pondering sending Montreal Baertschi instead, but replacing Plekenec at center wouldn't even be an option then. 

I would include Granlund in a deal too but not for picks, a deal that includes a young dman like Ryan Murray i would be game for.

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think we need to keep it simpler.............

 

Edler

 

for

 

Mtl. 2018-2nd + Juulsen

 

I think that fits in with our age group and adds a pick...............beside he looks like Bieska

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

A bigger trade if you would like, would be....................

 

Edler and Ericksson 40% cap retained

 

for

 

Juulsen + MTL 2018 1st + Chi 2018 2nd

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

I do believe Edler has said he would accept a trade if the team no longer wanted him

 

I was originally thinking of targeting Juulsen, but I'd say prying him away from them is very unlikely. If I'm not mistaken, Bergevin pointed to some good depth in terms of young defenseman within the organization as a reason why he was able to trade Sergachev. That includes Juulsen. 

 

If you want to simplify the trade, which is reasonable, I'd modify it to this:

 

To MTL:

 

Edler

 

To VAN:

 

2nd 2018 (CHI)

2nd 2018

 

If that's still too much, I might consider a 2nd and a 3rd as well. 

[Noble 6]

41 minutes ago, canuckmen84 said:

I would include Granlund in a deal too but not for picks, a deal that includes a young dman like Ryan Murray i would be game for.

 

I like the idea of going for Ryan Pulock out of New York. By some reports earlier this year, he's been passed on the depth chart by Pelech. I had a couple of ideas on acquiring him as well. Perhaps I'll make a few more proposals in the next little while. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

15 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I was originally thinking of targeting Juulsen, but I'd say prying him away from them is very unlikely. If I'm not mistaken, Bergevin pointed to some good depth in terms of young defenseman within the organization as a reason why he was able to trade Sergachev. That includes Juulsen. 

 

If you want to simplify the trade, which is reasonable, I'd modify it to this:

 

To MTL:

 

Edler

 

To VAN:

 

2nd 2018 (CHI)

2nd 2018

 

If that's still too much, I might consider a 2nd and a 3rd as well. 

Just to explain my reasoning........I believe Edler's value is great than 2 late 2nds, which is why I suggested Juulsen.....if Montreal wants a seasoned veteran that gives them a chance to win now, then they have to pay for that privilege...

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, canuckmen84 said:

Why does Edler waive to go to Montreal ?

His NTC can not be ignored which is exactly what you have done.

Benning or any GM can put pressure on guys with NTC to waive.  It's entirely possible he will do just that at some point this year, players don't like sticking around where they aren't wanted too.  

Personally I think we are stuck with Edler for better or worse, no indication that he has a desire to leave at least yet, maybe that will change once the Sedins are gone but we have other Swedes in the pipe and his mentorship of them might make having him around more palatable.

 

 

[The Lock]

Personally, I don't like the idea of giving up Granlund like that. He's just come off a breakout season and who knows what he can do for us in the future. He just might do more than whatever players we pick out of those picks we receive in return considering they will be late 2nd round picks and a late 1st round pick if Montreal gets it's way.

 

The rest of it's alright, but the Granlund part made me cringe a bit. Why mess with a good thing? lol

[komodo0921]

I love the idea of stocking up on lottery picks to improve our odds of getting into the top 3, but unfortunately, Montreal is going to be outside the top 15 next season.

I'd be looking to deal with teams on the fringes of making the playoffs, favoring those that, I feel will flop next season.

I would ask if he'd waive for any one of, Philly, Carolina, Florida, Detroit, New Jersey, Winnipeg or LA. It could be, that he gives multiple options on that list. If any offer up a first rounder next year as part of a deal, I'm in.

[Baggins]

On 2017-07-15 at 4:45 PM, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Edler has said in the past that while he would prefer to stay, he wouldn't want to be here if he wasn't wanted, or at least something along those lines. If management believes that it's time to move on, I believe they could get him to waive. They got Bieksa, Garrison, Burrows and Hansen to waive in the past. He would also have a chance on a better team to win. 

Actually what he said was, "if a team doesn't want you, you have to look at it". Looking at it and doing it are two different things.

 

I think he's more likely to waive in the final year of his deal.

[Noble 6]

16 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

I love the idea of stocking up on lottery picks to improve our odds of getting into the top 3, but unfortunately, Montreal is going to be outside the top 15 next season.

I'd be looking to deal with teams on the fringes of making the playoffs, favoring those that, I feel will flop next season.

I would ask if he'd waive for any one of, Philly, Carolina, Florida, Detroit, New Jersey, Winnipeg or LA. It could be, that he gives multiple options on that list. If any offer up a first rounder next year as part of a deal, I'm in.

 

That is a great idea in theory, but acquiring 1st round picks in a deep draft from those fringe teams is pretty unlikely. Those other teams know the potential value those picks have now, especially after this year's lottery. They won't give them away as easily as a team that is confident it will be in the playoffs next season. 

 

Besides, Montreal is a team that I feel is not too strong a team. They can easily crash and burn as they proved in the 2015-16 season. One injury to Price and we have two lottery tickets. Expectations are high there and they believe they are in a position to compete, so we should take advantage of that. 

[Phat Fingers]

Fine with the deal with one change. Take Granlund out. Put in a winger like Baer and I am sold. Granlund is our Hansen replacement with a lot more upside. 

 

IMO Finns are tough and even though Granlund isn't big, he goes into the dirty area's, is versatile and has a solid two way game. 

 

We take back a non center cap dump and everything is roses. 

[kloubek]

Firstly, I am impressed by such a well thought out proposal.  Rare to see this much detail and reasoning on CDC.  I don't follow Montreal nor their players so I cant really comment on the trade details.  

 

But basically, its Edler and Granlund for picks.  I see the case for moving Edler, and would be fine with it for the right picks.  As much as I was none too keen on the Shinkaruk Granlund trade, hes proven himself to be a versatile player with upside and I would rather see what he can do this season.  As such, I agree with Eastcoast Westcoast in that perhaps Baertschi is the better choice.  (Though I'm interested to watch his development as well, I'm less optimistic that he will be able to improve much from what we've already seen)

[Noble 6]

On July 23, 2017 at 6:09 AM, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Fine with the deal with one change. Take Granlund out. Put in a winger like Baer and I am sold. Granlund is our Hansen replacement with a lot more upside. 

 

IMO Finns are tough and even though Granlund isn't big, he goes into the dirty area's, is versatile and has a solid two way game. 

 

We take back a non center cap dump and everything is roses. 

 

That is a great idea in theory. There are 3 things to consider though; Montreal has a lot of wingers, they don't have any overpaid wingers that we could take back and they need better centers.

 

Right now on the wing they have Drouin, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk (most likely), Gallagher, Hemsky and Lehkonen with Shaw, Mitchell and Byron playing either center or wing. None of those players are players Montreal would be willing to include as a cap dump. 

 

They have Plekenec, Danault, Holland and Martinsen as pure centers. As you can see, that's where they would like to upgrade. While Granlund isn't a pure center, he would probably be a decent upgrade from Holland and/or Martinsen. Plekenec is the only player paid significantly more than he's worth, and we would need to supply a replacement center.