this deference to the Sedins is absurd and harmful - it has to stop

[Baggins]

14 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Have you not watched the Sedins in the last 17 seasons? The ONLY reason they get penalties is because they cannot keep up to their checks. Hooking, tripping, interference are the only penalties they take. Where have you been?

And yet the speedy Virtanen seems to have the same problem with minor penalties.

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

The PK folded like paper. That's what the game really came down to.

 

Gaudreau leads all forwards with 70 giveaways. Brent Burns has 101. Ovechkin has 54 giveaways and 12 takeaways. Offensive players tend to have a lot of giveaways.

What is the point Baggins of naming a whole plethora of players who dwarf the Sedins in what they actually do on the ice as some kind of justification for their giveaways. Don't you see the gulf in effectiveness? I expected something more relevant from you.

[canucker1971]

10 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Maybe not but the fact is the Sedins were largely responsible for most of what was wrong with this performance.

Firstly Hank breathed life into the Avs with yet another penalty in the 2nd due to inability to compete for the puck legally in his own end. He gave a repeat performance in OT (although what Green was thinking of putting the Sedins out in OT is a mystery)

 

The reason they slow up play AND give the puck away or put team mates in trouble is they are constantly looking for each other and often forcing passes which are not on and worse still ignoring better placed team mates. Their dithering allows the opponents to re-group and is the antithesis of the way this team is trying to play.

 

On a day when Goldobin played so well it was disappointing that his effort was not matched by his so called mentors. In a word they are becoming "sloppy" and it pains me to say that about the Twins.

 

People like you need to face up to the fact they are a handicap to the team now.

The definition of insanity is:

 

to resign the Twins to another 1-2 year contract.

 

Sorry, lets all just put on our big boy pants and move on. 

 

It is time for younger, faster, stronger players to lead the way.

 

Not 38 year past their prime slow footed turnover machines

[EdgarM]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

And yet the speedy Virtanen seems to have the same problem with minor penalties.

Are you related to guntrix? 

[Lafayettecrossbar]

On 21/02/2018 at 7:46 AM, EdgarM said:

Don't forget that they also cannot play in shootouts or PK's. So.................WHEN? can we actually play them?....Well OK lets just make them "Power play specialists" .

Gagner played on the 4th line in Columbus the year before he came here with top PP time and got 50 points. There's no reason that couldn't happen with the twins if they have Boeser with them there. 

[guntrix]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

Are you related to guntrix? 

If you had a good rebuttal to his post you would've said it. Clearly you don't.

 

Stick to baseball. 

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, guntrix said:

If you had a good rebuttal to his post you would've said it. Clearly you don't.

 

Stick to baseball. 

Well Baggin's point might have been relevant if he had shown that there was any similarity in penalties. The point being made was how the twins lack of speed lead to the penalties they took. Virtanen is very fast so obviously lack of speed is not a reason - maybe it is down to youth and inexperience or poor mentoring. The Sedins certainly can't use these excuses.

 

Whatever it still seems an irrelevant comeback from Baggins which is reminiscent of your own contributions. I think that was what EdgarM was getting at in a tongue in cheek kind of way.

[guntrix]

8 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Well Baggin's point might have been relevant if he had shown that there was any similarity in penalties. The point being made was how the twins lack of speed lead to the penalties they took. Virtanen is very fast so obviously lack of speed is not a reason - maybe it is down to youth and inexperience or poor mentoring. The Sedins certainly can't use these excuses.

 

Whatever it still seems an irrelevant comeback from Baggins which is reminiscent of your own contributions. I think that was what EdgarM was getting at in a tongue in cheek kind of way.

You should probably direct that at @Baggins so he can defend his point. 

 

And yeah, his petty tongue in cheek was noted, but it’s hard to take seriously from someone who still thinks +\- on its own is a relevant argument. 

[oldnews]

19 hours ago, smithers joe said:

the sedins didn't lose this game. it was a joint effort but their play may influence their decision about ending their careers. they have always said, that when they don't feel they can help this team, they will hang up their skates. if they retire they will have my undying gratitude for what they have meant to this team for so long. in linden's last season, he wasn't very productive either and he struggled to maintain the level of play he wanted too. we all know, their skills have diminished, but i'll always respect them. 

the past couple of years they have served as stop gap players till players like  pettersson and gaudette graduate to the nhl. i tip my hat to them.

 

yes, exactly. 

They're relatively more productive than could probably be expected at this point  - with the puck on their stick - but without it, the game continues to get faster, while they...never were and aren't exactly gaining a step.

They dont' have the footspeed or the grit to be effective without the puck in general - get them caught chasing the likes of Nathan McKinnon and it aint pretty. 

I marvel at times though at their ability to still create with such a speed deficit, to the extent it makes them below average NHL defensive forwards.

 

I think the decision for the franchise is fairly linked to assessing whether they're facing another stop gap / transition season.  If they don't have youth ready to step up - in terms of actually being NHL ready - then it wouldn't really be that material a question.  Are they preventing Megna and Chaput from stepping up - or Pettersson and Gaudette?   I think their cap hits would be Vanek range money (their production is worth more, but their game without the puck is worse than NHL average, and money doesn't appear an issue - it would likely take another 'hometown discount' for it to make sense for the team).  Some people are deluding themselves thinking we're talking the Sedins - or Josh Bailey type players - for comparable cap hits.   That is disingenuous, borderline ludicrous.   If it's another transition season, it's the Sedins or Gagner type stop gaps (and how attractive an option is that in any event - another year of bearing the brunt of transition?).  Or if the team thinks it's closer to competing, or may have bigger, younger, faster options - in that case, there won't be room for them.  I think the team's consistent intentions to improve is pretty much writing on the wall - whether the trade market or free agency enables them to get younger and faster remains to be seen.  If it's younger and faster through the draft, the urgency isn't the same. But I think the internal push - from guys  like Pettersson and Gaudette alone is enough to question their role - in which case the question would be whether they try to dump guys like Gagner to maintain room for the Sedins.   There is the slight possiblity they're able to change the lineup enough to make this team otherwise hard enough to play against that the Sedins remain effective, limited secondary scoring role players on a heavier team - but that would take a number of chips falling in the right places.  (ie land a Jenner, sign a Kane or a Reaves, etc).  Tall order.

 

I'd think you'd hear tank nation piping up in favour of signing them to one year extensions though, if their perception is that they're no longer capable of maintaining themselves as NHLers - and they don't want the team getting too good too soon, and becoming a near miss, mid range team - as the narrative goes.

 

In any event, I suspect they won't be returning.  JP Barry made some indications a while ago about checking in with the Sedins before the trade deadline - I didn't hear the franchise reciprocate an intention to front-burner that decision.  To me that speaks.  The Sedin side appears to have changed a bit - to leaving it to the summer to decide.  I think that could actually be the Sedins deferring to management needing to do what is best for the franchise / seeing the writing on the wall - as opposed to putting management on the spot by declaring their intentions to return.  The Sedins are exceedingly bright - and conscientious people.   Imo there is absolutely no reason to flog it or blow irrational headgaskets over this - particularly considering their history.  My guess would be that the team plans/intends to be more competitive.  But man makes plans and god just laughs...So we'll see what happens in the offseason, what opportunities present themselves, how the youth emerge, etc.

 

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

In any event, I suspect they won't be returning.  JP Barry made some indications a while ago about checking in with the Sedins before the trade deadline - I didn't hear the franchise reciprocate an intention to front-burner that decision.  To me that speaks.  The Sedin side appears to have changed a bit - to leaving it to the summer to decide.  I think that could actually be the Sedins deferring to management needing to do what is best for the franchise / seeing the writing on the wall - as opposed to putting management on the spot by declaring their intentions to return.  The Sedins are exceedingly bright - and conscientious people.   Imo there is absolutely no reason to flog it or blow irrational headgaskets over this - particularly considering their history.  My guess would be that the team plans/intends to be more competitive.  But man makes plans and god just laughs...So we'll see what happens in the offseason, what opportunities present themselves, how the youth emerge, etc.

Yeah, was thinking there may be something in that, especially since it came fairly shortly after word that they would make their intentions clear by the TDL.  They love the game, but despite having a few good "old-time" games lately, I can't see them wanting to play a season where they need sheltering and are a significant risk defensively, especially when that sheltering would be better-targeted to rookies coming in.  Like George Costanza, go out on a high note.

 

It's definitely going to be a "flip-the-switch" moment for this franchise.  As valuable they may be in mentorship and leadership, can we really set aside not one but two roster spots for them to play <10min 5V5 and be PP specialists for yet another year?  Pettersson, Dahlen, and Gaudette are at least or more-developed than Matthews/Nylander/Marner when they were brought in last year, plus we have at least as much veteran experience to ease them in.  In addition, we have a young group in Bo/Granlund/Baertschi/Gudbranson/Boeser in place to assume more central roles on the team so they won't be relied upon to produce in a significant way.

[EdgarM]

15 hours ago, guntrix said:

If you had a good rebuttal to his post you would've said it. Clearly you don't.

 

Stick to baseball. 

He is comparing a pair of 17 year vets to a rookie who has how many nhl games under his belt? I thought it need not any spelling out there Captain Obvious.