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[Discussion] Getting out of Cap Mess

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On 6/14/2020 at 7:52 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Offseason:

Let go:

Stecher, 6th round pick for his rights?

Let walk:

Motte, Leivo, Fantenberg, Domingue 

 

See if you can trade:

Sutter or Roussel (Maybe both, there return isn't important).

Sign Toffoli and Markstrom, see if Tanev will take a 1 year term. 

Sign Graovac for 1 year. 

 

RFA's 

Sign Virtanen, Gaudette, MacE, Perron, Bailey, Chatfield and Brisebois. Give Kielly one more shot and 1 more year. 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Toffoli

Eriksson Gaudette Virtanen

MacE (Ferland)  Beagle Lind/Lockwood

 

Defence:

Hughes Tanev

Edler Myers

Benn Woo/Rafferty

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

See how things play out in training camp/minors.

 

 

 

 

1) Roussell is not going anywhere, sorry.

2) sutter most definitely should be moved.

3) after 10 years in the NHL and finally getting UFA status, tanev signs a 1 year!?

Not going to happen.

On 6/14/2020 at 8:50 PM, DarkIndianRises said:

1) Demko as a sweetener to move Eriksson to Ottawa or Detroit.

2) Move Baertschi with 50% retention

3) Move Sutter with 50% retention

4) Sign Toffoli

5) Sign Tanev

6) Sign Markstrom

7) Stecher moved for a pick or is unqualified (replaced by Rafferty).  
8) Bye bye Leivo

9) Sign Tryamkin (or if we are committing to Tanev, possibly use Tree as a sweetener to move someone like Beagle).

10 Sign Gaudette

 

That leaves Boeser and Virtanen.

 

Depending on the cap space left, the Canucks can either........

 

1) Move Jake Virtanen (plus?) at the draft to recoup the first rounder lost in the JT Miller deal.


OR

 

2) Move Boeser for a very good  “all situations” young defenseman such as Noah Dobson or Bowen Byram to clear up cap space and also have a legit Edler replacement within the system (which would allow us to potentially move on from Edler when his contract expires).

1)Yes to Eriksson being moved. no, not at the cost of Demko. 

2) yes to moving Baer, zero retention.

3) yes to moving Sutter, zero retention.

4) yes

5) yes

6) yaaaaas

7) Stecher q.o is too high vs what he brings, likely becomes ufa and signs cheap somewhere like ben hutton in l.a.

8) We hardly knew thee

9) If the canucks d is like...

Hughes Myers 

Edler Tryamkin 

Juolevi Tanev 

Rafferty 

 

Benn will likely be moved for cap.

10) with Eriksson, baer, sutter, benn stecher Dominique leivo Fantenberg all leaving that is more then enough cap to sign Gaudette, Toffoli and Virtanen.

 

If Boeser is to be moved its a RHD STUD coming back.

 

Otherwise, 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat Toffoli 

Ferland Gaudette Virtanen 

Roussell Beagle Macewan 

 

Hughes Tanev

Edler Myers 

Tryamkin Rafferty

OJ 

 

Sign Polak & Kurtis Gabriel for #8d and 13th fwd.

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12 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

1) Roussell is not going anywhere, sorry.

2) sutter most definitely should be moved.

3) after 10 years in the NHL and finally getting UFA status, tanev signs a 1 year!?

Not going to happen.

1)Yes to Eriksson being moved. no, not at the cost of Demko. 

2) yes to moving Baer, zero retention.

3) yes to moving Sutter, zero retention.

4) yes

5) yes

6) yaaaaas

7) Stecher q.o is too high vs what he brings, likely becomes ufa and signs cheap somewhere like ben hutton in l.a.

8) We hardly knew thee

9) If the canucks d is like...

Hughes Myers 

Edler Tryamkin 

Juolevi Tanev 

Rafferty 

 

Benn will likely be moved for cap.

10) with Eriksson, baer, sutter, benn stecher Dominique leivo Fantenberg all leaving that is more then enough cap to sign Gaudette, Toffoli and Virtanen.

 

If Boeser is to be moved its a RHD STUD coming back.

 

Otherwise, 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat Toffoli 

Ferland Gaudette Virtanen 

Roussell Beagle Macewan 

 

Hughes Tanev

Edler Myers 

Tryamkin Rafferty

OJ 

 

Sign Polak & Kurtis Gabriel for #8d and 13th fwd.


I like your thoughts, but I also believe that moving Eriksson will require a TON of effort and won’t come easy.   Assuming that Eriksson doesn’t retire after he collects his signing bonus, I think a sweetener will definitely be required to move LE.   Teams trying to make the cap floor isn’t really a thing anymore.   Since the Canucks risk losing Demko to the Expansion draft anyways, I figured that packaging LE with Demko makes the most sense, especially considering the fact that management wants to be in “win now” territory and so the idea of them moving on from Markstrom seems unlikely.

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21 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:


I like your thoughts, but I also believe that moving Eriksson will require a TON of effort and won’t come easy.   Assuming that Eriksson doesn’t retire after he collects his signing bonus, I think a sweetener will definitely be required to move LE.   Teams trying to make the cap floor isn’t really a thing anymore.   Since the Canucks risk losing Demko to the Expansion draft anyways, I figured that packaging LE with Demko makes the most sense, especially considering the fact that management wants to be in “win now” territory and so the idea of them moving on from Markstrom seems unlikely.

L.e. & diepietro to ott for a 7th

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53 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

L.e. & diepietro to ott for a 7th

Ottawa would laugh historically 

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11 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Ottawa would laugh historically 

We'll see whichever team takes on loui for the remaining term, ottawa will be needing to add cap space, they are rebuilding and have a boatload of draft picks this coming draft and next.

 

After his signing bonus this july his contract  remaining is 6 million cap but 4 mill in salary for 2 years.

 

Dipietro would be attractive to Ottawa prospect wise plus he's from Ontario and played in the OHL for the Ottawa 67s.

 

Throw in the rights to Motte Stecher whoever just move loui!

:frantic::frantic::frantic::frantic:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

We'll see whichever team takes on loui for the remaining term, ottawa will be needing to add cap space, they are rebuilding and have a boatload of draft picks this coming draft and next.

 

After his signing bonus this july his contract  remaining is 6 million cap but 4 mill in salary for 2 years.

 

Dipietro would be attractive to Ottawa prospect wise plus he's from Ontario and played in the OHL for the Ottawa 67s.

 

Throw in the rights to Motte Stecher whoever just move loui!

:frantic::frantic::frantic::frantic:

Ottawa had no problem hitting the cap floor this year and they won’t have any trouble next year.  As of right now they have $37m committed  to only 9 players for next season.  If the cap floor stays at $60m they only have to spend $23m on 14 players.  Piece of cake.

 

 Cap space will be a valuable commodity in the new NHL and them taking on 2 seasons at $6m a year is worth a lot more than a goalie prospect. 
 

It cost Toronto a 1st to get rid of one year of Marleau. That was BEFORE covid put the breaks on cap growth.  If Vancouver wants a team to do them 

a favour by clearing $12m of aggregate cap space it’s going to cost them. 
 

 

Edited by qwijibo

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Well as much a people do not like it, Virtanen is the obvious player to move short term and long term...........

 

Why.......Boeser, and Toffoli take up the first 2 RW spots, and will for the next 4 years at least, McEwen is here, with Podkolzin, Lind and Jasek all to be pushing within the year after, not to mention Leivo can easily play up.

 

As many have said, there will be pain in clearing cap.............this is our pain

 

Eriksson and Virtanen to Ottawa for Ottawa's 3rd rounder. Yes, Eriksson carries 12 Million in Cap, but after July, only 5 million in actual salary, Virtanen easily moves Eriksson, after that...........this clears 7.2 Million in cap space, but actually more as Virtanen was due for a raise of somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million. So in actual fact, this actually clears 8.7 to 9.2 in cap.

 

This allows us to resign Toffoli 1.2 Million raise, Markstrom 1.75M  raise, Gaudette 1.5M  raise, Tanev 1 M raise, all the other raises will be small..................

 

This will allow the Canucks also to sign Tryamkin 3.25 Million and Rathbone 9.75 Million to modest contracts. Stecher will be moved for a 3rd rounder. And that pretty much takes care of 2020 signings and movements.

 

For the next year after, where Pettersson's and Hughes's contracts are up, I am afraid we will be signing both to bridge deals, in the neighborhood of 6.50 Million per.........

 

This will be paid by the following expiring contracts..................

 

Sutter.4.375 million

Pearson 3.750 million

Benn 2.00 million

Baertschi 2.291 million

Spooner 1.033 Million

Rousell buyout 1.300 million savings

Edler hometown discount savings 1.000 million...........2021-2023 UFA contract of 2 years @ 5 Million

 

Totaling ...............15.6 million + Pettersson's existing 900,000 + Hughes existing 900,000 = 17.4 Million

 

Note that Benning will try and re-sign Pearson to a short term deal at that time.............................look for a Covid type deal around 3 years @ 4.75 - 5.00 Million deal

 

Seattle Expansion draft Protection list..........

 

MILLER     XXXXX      Toffoli                     Pettersson exempt

Pearson     Horvat       Boeser

Ferland     Gaudette    XXXXX

 

Myers                                                           Hughes..........exempt still on ELC

Tryamkin                                                       Edler..............exempt on expiring UFA contract

Joulevi /Rafferty/Brisebois                            Tanev.............exempt on expiring UFA contract (signed a 1 year deal)

                                                                     Tryamkin........exempt or protected

                                                                     Rathbone.......exempt still on ELC

                                                                     Woo...............exempt still on ELC

 

Markstrom                                                     DiPietro

 

Exposed Notables............Demko, Motte, Beagle, Leivo, Lind, Jasek and 2 of Juolevi, Rafferty and Brisebois

 

Yes, a lot to fathom, and maybe not Ottawa, but that is my bet.................

 

Now, if Eriksson or Ferland retires, or there is a compliance buyout, all bets are off, but I doubt it!

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36 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well as much a people do not like it, Virtanen is the obvious player to move short term and long term...........

 

Why.......Boeser, and Toffoli take up the first 2 RW spots, and will for the next 4 years at least, McEwen is here, with Podkolzin, Lind and Jasek all to be pushing within the year after, not to mention Leivo can easily play up.

 

As many have said, there will be pain in clearing cap.............this is our pain

 

Eriksson and Virtanen to Ottawa for Ottawa's 3rd rounder. Yes, Eriksson carries 12 Million in Cap, but after July, only 5 million in actual salary, Virtanen easily moves Eriksson, after that...........this clears 7.2 Million in cap space, but actually more as Virtanen was due for a raise of somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million. So in actual fact, this actually clears 8.7 to 9.2 in cap.

 

This allows us to resign Toffoli 1.2 Million raise, Markstrom 1.75M  raise, Gaudette 1.5M  raise, Tanev 1 M raise, all the other raises will be small..................

 

This will allow the Canucks also to sign Tryamkin 3.25 Million and Rathbone 9.75 Million to modest contracts. Stecher will be moved for a 3rd rounder. And that pretty much takes care of 2020 signings and movements.

 

For the next year after, where Pettersson's and Hughes's contracts are up, I am afraid we will be signing both to bridge deals, in the neighborhood of 6.50 Million per.........

 

This will be paid by the following expiring contracts..................

 

Sutter.4.375 million

Pearson 3.750 million

Benn 2.00 million

Baertschi 2.291 million

Spooner 1.033 Million

Rousell buyout 1.300 million savings

Edler hometown discount savings 1.000 million...........2021-2023 UFA contract of 2 years @ 5 Million

 

Totaling ...............15.6 million + Pettersson's existing 900,000 + Hughes existing 900,000 = 17.4 Million

 

Note that Benning will try and re-sign Pearson to a short term deal at that time.............................look for a Covid type deal around 3 years @ 4.75 - 5.00 Million deal

 

Seattle Expansion draft Protection list..........

 

MILLER     XXXXX      Toffoli                     Pettersson exempt

Pearson     Horvat       Boeser

Ferland     Gaudette    XXXXX

 

Myers                                                           Hughes..........exempt still on ELC

Tryamkin                                                       Edler..............exempt on expiring UFA contract

Joulevi /Rafferty/Brisebois                            Tanev.............exempt on expiring UFA contract (signed a 1 year deal)

                                                                     Tryamkin........exempt or protected

                                                                     Rathbone.......exempt still on ELC

                                                                     Woo...............exempt still on ELC

 

Markstrom                                                     DiPietro

 

Exposed Notables............Demko, Motte, Beagle, Leivo, Lind, Jasek and 2 of Juolevi, Rafferty and Brisebois

 

Yes, a lot to fathom, and maybe not Ottawa, but that is my bet.................

 

Now, if Eriksson or Ferland retires, or there is a compliance buyout, all bets are off, but I doubt it!

If they sign both Hughes and Petterson to bridge contracts, Luongos recap penalty should have vanished as well, giving them a little more room for manoeuvre, I guess? 

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If Eriksson every wanted to do anything for this team (so far he has not) he will agree to terminate his contract after the bonus is paid.

 

Easy peasy.

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19 minutes ago, kloubek said:

If Eriksson every wanted to do anything for this team (so far he has not) he will agree to terminate his contract after the bonus is paid.

 

Easy peasy.

Why should he?  

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Why should he?  

To get a fresh start elsewhere to try to play a few more years instead of likely being demoted to the AHL - regardless of negligible cap savings.

 

To reward the Canucks for hiring him when he clearly didn't want to get into the game most nights. For playing soft as butter. How many hits did he tally again? He was given the opportunity to play with virtually everyone on the team and did nothing. Does he have an undisclosed medical issue? Is it so serious he forgot how to play? 

 

If it was me, and I was already a made man, I would absolutely bow out gracefully after the free ride. How many Bentley's and yachts does one require anyway.

Edited by kloubek

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41 minutes ago, kloubek said:

To get a fresh start elsewhere to try to play a few more years instead of likely being demoted to the AHL - regardless of negligible cap savings.

 

To reward the Canucks for hiring him when he clearly didn't want to get into the game most nights. For playing soft as butter. How many hits did he tally again? He was given the opportunity to play with virtually everyone on the team and did nothing. Does he have an undisclosed medical issue? Is it so serious he forgot how to play? 

 

If it was me, and I was already a made man, I would absolutely bow out gracefully after the free ride. How many Bentley's and yachts does one require anyway.

Welcome to the world of guaranteed contracts in the NHL. Eriksson is 34. Based on his performance this is likely his last big contract.  Sending him to the AHL isn’t that big a threat right now considering his pay won’t be subject to escrow if he’s demoted.  You say you’d walk away from $5m for two years of playing in the AHL?  He won’t make a fraction of that in Europe. He likely won’t get another NHL contract.  Personally I’d collect my $5m before riding off into the sunset 

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47 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Welcome to the world of guaranteed contracts in the NHL. Eriksson is 34. Based on his performance this is likely his last big contract.  Sending him to the AHL isn’t that big a threat right now considering his pay won’t be subject to escrow if he’s demoted.  You say you’d walk away from $5m for two years of playing in the AHL?  He won’t make a fraction of that in Europe. He likely won’t get another NHL contract.  Personally I’d collect my $5m before riding off into the sunset 

Think you’re right. People don’t just leave 5mill on the table, whether its to go home and play hockey for fun in Sweden or whatever. 
Unless a trade is made to get him off the books its most likely he will stay here for his entire contract... whether we like it or not. 

The story of his tenure with Canucks was already written, when he started with an own goal in his first game. Doubt that even him scoring the winning goal in the Stanley Cup final, would make the fans forget, how he flopped during his time here.... although it would help a little ;)

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3 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Welcome to the world of guaranteed contracts in the NHL. Eriksson is 34. Based on his performance this is likely his last big contract.  Sending him to the AHL isn’t that big a threat right now considering his pay won’t be subject to escrow if he’s demoted.  You say you’d walk away from $5m for two years of playing in the AHL?  He won’t make a fraction of that in Europe. He likely won’t get another NHL contract.  Personally I’d collect my $5m before riding off into the sunset 

..and that is a totally fair position. He has every right legally to play out the contract.

 

I would argue he *would* get a tryout at least and if he had renewed energy and ability to play he could earn a one year show-me-you-can-still-play contract. Of course, it would be less money but better than the AHL perhaps? Finish his career with class?

 

Who knows what he is thinking. I haven't known since he arrived.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, kloubek said:

If Eriksson every wanted to do anything for this team (so far he has not) he will agree to terminate his contract after the bonus is paid.

 

Easy peasy.

 

Shipachyov had to pay his bonus back.  He only got the pro-rata portion for the days before his contract was terminated.  

 

When new ELCs sign at the end of the season and receive a signing bonus, their signing bonus counts in full against the cap because they received all of it.  Only the salary gets pro-rated.  Wouldn't it be the same here if he doesn't return the pro-rata bonus for the days he didn't play or is he obligated to return the full bonus.

 

Edited by mll
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2 hours ago, mll said:

 

Shipachyov had to pay his bonus back.  He only got the pro-rata portion for the days before his contract was terminated.  

 

When new ELCs sign at the end of the season and receive a signing bonus, their signing bonus counts in full against the cap because they received all of it.  Only the salary gets pro-rated.  Wouldn't it be the same here if he doesn't return the pro-rata bonus for the days he didn't play or is he obligated to return the full bonus.

 

The team “can” apply to recoup bonuses, they aren’t compelled to by the contract.

 

If Eriksson left but his condition always that he keeps his bonus money, the Canucks would happily let him ride off with that In his pocket at this point.

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18 minutes ago, Provost said:

The team “can” apply to recoup bonuses, they aren’t compelled to by the contract.

 

If Eriksson left but his condition always that he keeps his bonus money, the Canucks would happily let him ride off with that In his pocket at this point.

I was wondering about that, but not sure how they would count the cap hit.  Wouldn't the bonus at least stay on the books similar to new ELCs?

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1 hour ago, mll said:

I was wondering about that, but not sure how they would count the cap hit.  Wouldn't the bonus at least stay on the books similar to new ELCs?

I have no idea about how the cap hit would work.  I just remember researching the CBA on the bonus repayment issue.

 

I couldn’t find anything on the cap hit.  Based just on the contract language it seems like it would t have any cap impact.  The cap is calculated daily during the season based on who is on your roster on that day.  If Eriksson isn’t on the roster how would his bonus be a cap hit?

 

On the other hand it seems like that is cap circumvention so there is probably some sort of memorandum of understanding on how it impacts teams. Otherwise teams could tack on another year to every contract with almost all of it being bonus money in order to artificially lower the AAV.

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

I have no idea about how the cap hit would work.  I just remember researching the CBA on the bonus repayment issue.

 

I couldn’t find anything on the cap hit.  Based just on the contract language it seems like it would t have any cap impact.  The cap is calculated daily during the season based on who is on your roster on that day.  If Eriksson isn’t on the roster how would his bonus be a cap hit?

 

On the other hand it seems like that is cap circumvention so there is probably some sort of memorandum of understanding on how it impacts teams. Otherwise teams could tack on another year to every contract with almost all of it being bonus money in order to artificially lower the AAV.

No idea how it would work either.  Would be surprised if it can just be wiped off like that.  

 

Fwiw his agent JP Barry was on the TSN1040 last week and it doesn't sound like he's considering walking away.  Talked of how Eriksson still wants to play.

 

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Posted (edited)

Whatever the choices the team decide to get out of the cap mess expect some pain.  So get ready for that.  Some ideas (options) that could help are:

1) Buy out Sutter.  He will have only 1 year left on his contract so the cap savings is 2.3 million in the first year which will help in the first year cash crunch.

2) Trade Pearson for draft pick(s) or/and prospect(s).  If you want to sell high on him, this could be the time.  It will save you 3.75 million per season.

3)  I read somewhere that Markstrom's agent won't pick up the phone unless the offer is 6 million and up.  I say let him walk because this year's free agent class is flooded with goaltenders.  Goalies like Holtby, Lehner, Crawford, Lundqvist, and many many more will be available.  Even Ryan Miller is available if we want him back.  Simple supply/demand and there will be a lot of supply on Nov. 1 so instead of paying 6 million you could get one for around 4 million for another 1 to 2 million in savings.

4) Let Ferland stay on the long term injury reserve if he is unhealthy to play.  He have had concussion problems in the past and his 3.5 million cap hit could be mitigated that way.  He is also a buyout candidate, but he has three years left so maybe next year would be a better time to do it because doing it now is more costly.

5) Acquire LTIR contract(s) to mitigate the effect of overspending.  Getting Marian Gaborik (Ott) at 4.875 x 1 yr. or/and Marian Hossa (Ariz) at 5.275 x 1 yr. could help in the short term.

 

Hopefully, some of these ideas will help with our cap problems.  Every little bit helps.

 

 

Edited by WestCoastDave

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