[poll/discussion] Are you OK if next year is a small step back?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

To your last point, I’m wondering if the Canucks might consider moving Gaudette I’d they are also moving Sutter.

 

If Baertschi is deemed ‘unmovable’, then it might be worth the Canucks giving Baertschi Pearson’s spot while packaging Pearson and Gaudette for a good and young two way 3rd line center that can assume defensive responsibilities. 
 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen

Roussel-Sissons-MacEwen

I don't think AG is in the untouchable category, so its certainly possible. 

[Patel Bure]

21 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I don't think AG is in the untouchable category, so its certainly possible. 

I can write a whole piece on Gaudette, lol.

 

While I admire Gaudette and his journey to the NHL, I just don’t know how he’s going to fit in with the Canucks’ future plans.  

1) Defense is clearly not his strong suit and so we wouldn’t be able to rely on him to take on more defensive responsibilities to free up Horvat and Petey a little more.

 

2) Gaudette has scoring abilities, but are they good enough to carry a 3rd line with 3rd line calibre wingers (and contribute to creating a bottom 6 that can consistently chip in?).  I’m not so sure.  Gaudette definitely took strides this year, but can he develop into that good 3rd line pivot?  Even if he does, will Bo still have too much pressure on him in terms of defensive responsibilities?   

[JM_]

1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I can write a whole piece on Gaudette, lol.

 

While I admire Gaudette and his journey to the NHL, I just don’t know how he’s going to fit in with the Canucks’ future plans.  

1) Defense is clearly not his strong suit and so we wouldn’t be able to rely on him to take on more defensive responsibilities to free up Horvat and Petey a little more.

 

2) Gaudette has scoring abilities, but are they good enough to carry a 3rd line with 3rd line calibre wingers (and contribute to creating a bottom 6 that can consistently chip in?).  I’m not so sure.  Gaudette definitely took strides this year, but can he develop into that good 3rd line pivot?  Even if he does, will Bo still have too much pressure on him in terms of defensive responsibilities?   

AG needs another year imo to grow into the 3C defensive side, but he's got a great attitude and I do think he could get there. 

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Robert Long said:

AG needs another year imo to grow into the 3C defensive side, but he's got a great attitude and I do think he could get there. 

This is one of the reasons I don’t think Sutter is worth the cap dump and still has more value on the team.  Plus we start eating into next years space (Pearson and Sutter) it’s going to be a very long off season waiting to see what sort of bridge deals EP and QHs come up with, and where Edler ends up. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

This is one of the reasons I don’t think Sutter is worth the cap dump and still has more value on the team.  Plus we start eating into next years space (Pearson and Sutter) it’s going to be a very long off season waiting to see what sort of bridge deals EP and QHs come up with, and where Edler ends up. 

If they move Jake this week I think we'll see a Rouseel, Sutter, AG line penciled in for next year, with AG getting more and more of the defensive duties and Sutter on his wing. It might his make or break year as a C, he has to get stronger on face offs and has to get more experience matching up against better players. It would be really interesting to know the internal opinion of AG right now but that would be ideal to me if can use Sutter as training wheels for one more year. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Robert Long

[Crabcakes]

10 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

If they move Jake this week I think we'll see a Rouseel, Sutter, AG line penciled in for next year, with AG getting more and more of the defensive duties and Sutter on his wing. It might his make or break year as a C, he has to get stronger on face offs and has to get more experience matching up against better players. It would be really interesting to know the internal opinion of AG right now but that would be ideal to me if can use Sutter as training wheels for one more year. 

I'll tell you what I think of Gaudette.  He made a steady improvement from year 1 (5-7-12 -8 in 56 games) to year 2 (12-21-33 -7 in 59 games) but pretty much disappeared in the playoffs (0-0-0 -1 in 10 games).

 

On the one hand, his results are encouraging but on the other, against better than average competition under highly competitive circumstances not so much.  There are few comments about his size but he's only 170 lbs and just can't get himself into position offensively against NHL talent.  In the games he missed, Sutter looked much more capable at 3C.  I wouldn't be sad if they moved on from him while the 23 year old still has a perceived upside.

 

The big question is what do the Canucks think?  Are they happy with the progression or do they see a red flag?  Do they package the 23 year old in a deal or carry on?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

I'll tell you what I think of Gaudette.  He made a steady improvement from year 1 (5-7-12 -8 in 56 games) to year 2 (12-21-33 -7 in 59 games) but pretty much disappeared in the playoffs (0-0-0 -1 in 10 games).

 

On the one hand, his results are encouraging but on the other, against better than average competition under highly competitive circumstances not so much.  There are few comments about his size but he's only 170 lbs and just can't get himself into position offensively against NHL talent.  In the games he missed, Sutter looked much more capable at 3C.  I wouldn't be sad if they moved on from him while the 23 year old still has a perceived upside.

 

The big question is what do the Canucks think?  Are they happy with the progression or do they see a red flag?  Do they package the 23 year old in a deal or carry on?

I do wonder if he and Hoglander could be lightning in a bottle. Maybe Beagle and Bo continue to be our matchup lines with AG and Hollanders line used in more of a scoring capacity than trying to turn AG into the next Beagle. 

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I'll tell you what I think of Gaudette.  He made a steady improvement from year 1 (5-7-12 -8 in 56 games) to year 2 (12-21-33 -7 in 59 games) but pretty much disappeared in the playoffs (0-0-0 -1 in 10 games).

 

On the one hand, his results are encouraging but on the other, against better than average competition under highly competitive circumstances not so much.  There are few comments about his size but he's only 170 lbs and just can't get himself into position offensively against NHL talent.  In the games he missed, Sutter looked much more capable at 3C.  I wouldn't be sad if they moved on from him while the 23 year old still has a perceived upside.

 

The big question is what do the Canucks think?  Are they happy with the progression or do they see a red flag?  Do they package the 23 year old in a deal or carry on?

Here’s my thing with Gaudette:

 

Although I’m really pulling for him due to his underdog story (ie 5th round pick that turned into a Hobey Baker winner, etc.), he’ll REALLY have to take a leap in his offensive game in order to become an effective player for the Canucks.  He’ll need to become a guy that could carry a 3rd line offensively and bring out the best in his linemates (and ultimately, make that line a consistent bottom 6 scoring threat at the bottom 6 level).

 

The reason why he’ll have to turn into that guy, is because I don’t think it’s likely that Gaudette will become a defensive stalwart of any kind.  Gaudette’s game is about offense.  He’s not a two way player, and he’s not going to be a Brandon Sutter or Jay Beagle type.  
 

Even if Gaudette develops into what I described above, it’s still going to be Horvat taking on the tougher match ups and defensive responsibilities.  That’s not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but that’s what I believe would be the reality even if Gaudette maximized his potential.   Gaudette’s not a two way guy and he can’t play wing.  If Gaudette is to have value for the Canucks, he’ll need to develop into a “2A or 2B” calibre center that can carry a 3rd line offensively (while having defensively responsible wingers to cover his deficiencies).

 

On the flip side - I wonder if there would be some value in the Canucks actually going out and getting a good two way center that could help the penalty kill and take defensive pressure off of Bo so that Bo isn’t so over exerted in this area.   
 

Would a package of Pearson and Gaudette land a player like that? (Colton Sissons perhaps).   If the Canucks were to package Pearson and Gaudette for a good young two way 3rd line center, would Baertschi be able to fill the shoes of the departed Pearson?

[Pink Sock]

Let the kid develop. He's played 120 NHL games and is continuing to improve. You guys are acting like we've seen all we're going to see from him. 

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Here’s my thing with Gaudette:

 

Although I’m really pulling for him due to his underdog story (ie 5th round pick that turned into a Hobey Baker winner, etc.), he’ll REALLY have to take a leap in his offensive game in order to become an effective player for the Canucks.  He’ll need to become a guy that could carry a 3rd line offensively and bring out the best in his linemates (and ultimately, make that line a consistent bottom 6 scoring threat at the bottom 6 level).

 

The reason why he’ll have to turn into that guy, is because I don’t think it’s likely that Gaudette will become a defensive stalwart of any kind.  Gaudette’s game is about offense.  He’s not a two way player, and he’s not going to be a Brandon Sutter or Jay Beagle type.  
 

Even if Gaudette develops into what I described above, it’s still going to be Horvat taking on the tougher match ups and defensive responsibilities.  That’s not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but that’s what I believe would be the reality even if Gaudette maximized his potential.   Gaudette’s not a two way guy and he can’t play wing.  If Gaudette is to have value for the Canucks, he’ll need to develop into a “2A or 2B” calibre center that can carry a 3rd line offensively (while having defensively responsible wingers to cover his deficiencies).

 

On the flip side - I wonder if there would be some value in the Canucks actually going out and getting a good two way center that could help the penalty kill and take defensive pressure off of Bo so that Bo isn’t so over exerted in this area.   
 

Would a package of Pearson and Gaudette land a player like that? (Colton Sissons perhaps).   If the Canucks were to package Pearson and Gaudette for a good young two way 3rd line center, would Baertschi be able to fill the shoes of the departed Pearson?

It depends on how Benning sees the top 9 in the future.  Horvat was the leading goal scorer in the playoffs for a while and showed what he can do.  I don't know how they ignore that and saddle him with defensive duties.  The playoffs in my mind are a time for player evaluation.  I think they'd be better off with a traditional defensive stalwart at 3C and leave the top 6 led by Petey's finesse and intelligence and Horvat's power.  That's a heck of a one two punch.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

It depends on how Benning sees the top 9 in the future.  Horvat was the leading goal scorer in the playoffs for a while and showed what he can do.  I don't know how they ignore that and saddle him with defensive duties.  The playoffs in my mind are a time for player evaluation.  I think they'd be better off with a traditional defensive stalwart at 3C and leave the top 6 led by Petey's finesse and intelligence and Horvat's power.  That's a heck of a one two punch.

Horvat is clutch.   Sure would be nice to give him better wingers to work with at some point and despite all the posts I’ve been making about not signing TT I 100% get he’s earned it.   
 

Sutter isn’t the same Sutter we once had - there were flashes of it during the playoffs but it wasn’t sustained other then face offs.    A two-way third line center that can also put up 30-40 points is would be way more valuable for sure.   I’m curious what Motte could do on the third line.   He was our best bottom six players in the post season.   That would mean AG could get tried out on the second line as well.   Also think that if Pearson isn’t in our long term plans the team should trade him at the draft.   Bear Horvat BB was our best line during BB rookie campaign.   Why not use him?  Pearson was invisible against Vegas, his stock is as high as it will ever be too. 
 

Motte on the second line would also be interesting.   He’s a total puck hound and has hands too.  Could be a diamond in the rough.    Truly think that if he plays like that in the regular season great things are ahead for him.   He’s earned a promotion.   
 

I think Vancouver should only sign one or two of our UFAs.   Basically three strategies available to them.   First one is sign nobody and clear cap.   Gone through that already several times.   Moderate risk highest reward.   Would clear up space so we could start working on our D.   Ideally with signing AP.    Second is go with TT and Tanev and let Markstrom walk.   This is what I think is going to happen.   Not at all a bad strategy.   Third is Markstrom and Tanev, probably my least favourite as it doesn’t change a thing.   And the team needs some change. 

[komodo0921]

On 9/22/2020 at 1:04 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yes I would.

 

Appears the alternative means we must part with valuable youth/picks, in order to jettison overpaid vets. Would prefer they exercise patience, even if it means a little regression for a yr.

Absolutely.

We all have fun throwing out ridiculous, unrealistic trade ideas (of which I've contributed many )and imagining our team with the likes of McDavid, Draisitl, and Eichel in the line up but the real is that we are at about two thirds of a complete rebuild.

The playoff run was great but, imo, was not an accurate reflection of where we truly are in team development.

Taking a step back in a season that, probably, won't see fans in the stands anyway, would (again just my opinion) be a wise move, to prepare fi ances for our true window, which will begin post Eriksson (2022/2023 season).

I believe more effort should be made to get back into the first round of the draft this year, then trying to re-sign a Tanev and Marky, as well as saving money for the upcoming contracts for Petey and Hughes.

I believe that, although we will be taking a step back and losing popular players, we will be better for it at the other end of the build.

 

[Nucker 67]

With the excitement of playoffs and having such a promising finish to 2019/20, taking a step back is depressing, because it took them 5 years to get back there. But I have a feeling that they won't be able to sign the UFAs, maybe sign one of them (Tanev), and all this time and effort on OEL, I'm thinking he might go somewhere else. So then what? Re-sign Stecher as a UFA and go into next season with the same D and a cheap backup for Demko? Maybe they feel this is okay, no one is going out and paying for tickets to watch the games anyway. Guess we'll see what happens, with free agency tomorrow.

Edited October 8, 2020 by NUCKER67