Warhippy

Explain to me how ASP is a defensive liability. Curious to hear your reasoning behind this

We Wait. How hard is that to understand? Giving up pick after pick after pick to drop contracts is frigging stupid. We JUSt did that with 3 contracts for 1 single season of cap space that we IMMEDIATELY spent while acquiring the next contract we are trying to pay to offload. We also DON'T have Hronek. We have the POSSIBILITY of Hronek. Until he plays, stays healthy and can maintain his production we don't know what he is. Our core is Miller, Petey Hughes and Demko and Kuzmenko. After that, what?

The comprehension issue here is staggering. Philly JUST started 2-3 seasons ago. JUST. Buffalo has acquired a staggering amount of depth over the last decade and while they won two 1st overall picks they also acquired large amounts of draft capitol in the same ish amount of time as Vancouver and is on the upswing with cap space to spare and large volumes of depth and assets over the next 2 seasons. one goaltender and they'll be on my watch list next season. Arizona may not be worth discussing but they have also added a significant amount of cap space and draft capitol while also acquiring a significant amount of depth of prospects. Ottawa started about 5 years ago but gave up two high first round picks to do so, regardless they have hit very well on early to mid round picks and while they " only have 7 core pieces" we actually only have 5. They also have cap space and a significant amount of draft capitol over the next few seasons and cap space. Columbus is disgusting; they are on my watch list and wildly underperformed due to various reasons the largest of which are injuries. When you weigh ALL of these teams out against the Canucks over the last decade, all but two have had more playoff success, all have more depth, cap space and draft capitol than the Canucks and all of them are either on or will be on the upswing while we are still moving deck chairs around hoping the boat stays afloat long enough for us to find yet another bargain basement piece another team isn't playing but won't give up for free. Also, ffs stop pegging in Hronek as a core piece until you know he's actually healthy and can play this season. People assuming he's the saviour or the next coming need to cool it. He has to A: Come in healthy and B; maintain his trajectory. None of which are guarantees. it is equally as likely that his injured shoulder causes him issues all season as it is for him to be a "core piece" Like it or not; these are teams that are on or will be on the upswing soon and no amount of arguing will change that. of all of them, I see philly as being the one to take the longest due to their just starting recently and their bi polar management issues.

Glass is a 6th overall pick we took AFTER pettersson. Petey is breaking out. Glass is plodding along.

Boeser 20% retained and #11 for Laf #23 a 2024 3rd round pick and Brennan Othman or Will Cuyle Showcase Laf like mad this year and either keep him or flip him to the habs for a 1st they'll probably acquire at some point because their GM isn't slow Get it done.

Did we just give up a 9th overall and a 2nd and more just to offload 1 year of 3 mediocre contracts while picking up an extra large one? I'm with you my man. Wait it out

We don't have to. we just have to have smarter ownership/management that will get us there without an endless cycle of trading picks/prospects to drop cap/contracts while actually accruing and holding on to draft capitol to in fact increase our depth and allow us to properly develop youth as opposed to 27 year olds on 2 way contracts that can't make it on playoff bound teams.

I love me some good sarcasm. But for fun. Check the rosters and minor depth of those teams for prospects. Check their draft capital over the next few drafts. Then check their existing cap space over the next 2 seasons. let us know which of them are positioned worse than the Canucks

I've been pooping on the development aspect of this team since about 2008 when we essentially moved from the moose to chicago and then got excited for utica until it was just a dumping grounds nobody but us fans cared about and then abby and still have hopes something will change but.....

Well, in fairness Buffalo has Rumplestiltskin from Shrek 3 on their roster in Peyton Krebs

So in essence, we'd be giving up the asset in AB + the 11th for...an aging non productive RHD with term on a 4.4 million contract and the 19th and the reasoning behind it is to also give them Myers who is off the books immediately? Not sure I like that.

This is actually Valley wide right now. it is more a crisis than an HR issue. The Okanagan is the exact place I factor in and speak about regarding corporate ownership and owned homes. Every single available rental is literally short term. 6 month or straight Air BnB. I saw a 2 bed 1 bath in penticton renting for $6000 a month through the summer, either outright or at X per day or XY per week. People will not even list the price of places anymore as they don't want the heat and hate they get There is NOWHERE for people to live here. Let alone pay the usurious rental rates of $1600+ per 1 bedroom where the average post tax income is less than $2500 per month when they will have to come up with a large damage deposit knowing they will be doing the exact same thing again 6 months down the road.. First image is an example of a corporate owned rental unit. Second image of a studio suite in kelowna 3rd image is the $6k place in penticton (listing individual changed the price as it was getting heated) Where are people going to live? most of the interior health boards work force right now is being comprised of travelling nurses. Health care professionals paid more than the normal full time staff PLUS lodging and meals to work here, thus driving the cost of health care up. People can not maintain this. It is literally unsustainable. Go on to any air bnb listing or vrbo for penticton, vernon or kelowna and check out how insane it is. Go on to facebook and type in the name of a city and rent. You'll end up with options to join groups of people looking for or renting homes/rooms. You'll see in short order how insane it is. This is not just unsustainable; it is a death sentence. Because the Okanagan is honestly still very much a service industry area. Most of the jobs pay well seasonally; but after summer ends the money dries up and people start working 2-3 jobs JUSt to pay their rent. When your work force can no longer live in the town they work in they are effectively no longer able to stay in the area at all. Once they are pushed out; who will fill those jobs? Where will TFWs or travelling individuals stay? It is a cascading effect.

Who do you see taking that next step first. Vancouver or Columbus?

Close yes. While shoring up the defensive game is essential; losing so much production that we slip to the bottom 10 in the league is just trading green apples for red.

Philly won the draft and really just started down that road. ottawa went to the ECF before blowing it all up and has actually drafted only twice thus far in the top 10 over the last few years due to trading a pick to Arizona and Colorado. Columbus has arguably some of the best prospect depth in the entire league right now and aside from chemistry issues, bad goaltending and insanely bad injury issues this year is vastly better than their record suggests Buffalo has already taken the next step and is just missing a piece or two but drafted similarly to us while also lucking out with two 1st overall picks Arizona is a mess but the moment they move they'll catch fire because they; again are deeper than us and have that cap space to play with. While we have drafted comparably, all of those teams barring Columbus have more cap space than us; all but Arizona have won as many or more playoff series as we have in the last decade ish and all of them are deeper, younger and have better draft capital than us. When you ask if they are any better ahead of us, look at the rosters, cap space and records over the last ten years vs their trajectory. Then compare it to ours. After you've done that. You tell me

And there in lies the rub. When you go back to 2013 and look at the teams that have consistently drafted top 10. It's kind of an indictment Buffalo Florida Edmonton Colorado Tampa Carolina New York New Jersey Toronto Columbus Arizona Philly Ottawa Vancouver ALL of these teams in the last 10 years have drafted top 10 a minimum of 3+ times. For some of them they were on the tail end of a decade long run of failure or just had some down years or they got some lottery luck. They are the ones crossed out. When you look at that list, which team stands out as having the worst draft success, worst draft capital yet still spending to the cap every single year with the least success for it? Edit*. Even more, out of all of those only one team has consistently either traded their first or 2nd round picks, or managed to flub a first round pick. Hint, it rhymes with no-funcouver

That's actually been the team MO since 2006. We've only had 4 total years where we had more than a million in cap space at any given time through the season and much of those were in the mid 2000s I fail to see how that would change sadly. We have to many glaring holes in the lineup to fill and while the idea of trading back and maybe using that 11th to garner a later 1st a mid round pick and shedding some cap space is attractive. we know that we'll then flip that cap space in to a bidding war for the best available UFA at that position like we always do.

OK, so taking away career years and suprise production from Kuzmenko, Petey, Hughes. lets shake this out. Canucks at 12th overall in league scoring with 270 goals. Lost Horvat -31 goals. Losing Boeser -18 goals. Call Kuzmenko to have a sophomore slump 28 goals (loss of 11 goals) Pettersson to drop down to a 30 goal player as well (loss of 9 goals) 69 lost goals scored. Yes that is the absolute high end and yes it is not generally fair to utilize Horvats monstrous pre trade production etc. I am just playing devils advocate here because I also see Boeser as being the most logical piece to move. But losing say 60-70 goals worth of production from season start to season start puts a 12th place in overall scoring Canucks team down to a bottom 8 team in the entire league. While again not exactly fair, even losing 40 goals worth of production makes the Canucks a bottom 8 team. the levels of production have got to be far more evenly distributed but they haven't been at all over the past few seasons. We saw some increased 4th line production this year for sure, but not appreciably and again it fell on the top 4-5 players to produce. Losing Boeser means that it is now 4 players. Hughes, Miller, Petey Kuzmenko. While Boeser is not a driver as it was his numbers indicate he is a far more effective passer than some credit him for with 37 assists this year, 24 of them being primary. We just have to know that once he's gone he's gone. The canucks production could take a hit and without the depth to supplement it and without more career years from our top 4 producers we will slide.

BAM! This, right gd here! Franky Aqua was "furious" about the OJ pick even though there's little to n doubt that benning was in absolute contact with him right before he walked up to the stage but he's not mad about always being a top 10 drafting basement team with no cap space no draft capital no prospects or quality depth and feeding the fans that support his business the same BS every off season? Kick rocks Franky

I'd agree to that as well. My fear though is that cap space would immediately be spent on July 1st again. Then we'd be looking for a way to move a contract and wondering how much value we'd have to add to do it.

A team that has essentially been drafting top 10 since about 2013/2014 that has some of the lowest prospect depth in the league as well as having drafted the lowest number of players in the league in comparison to other teams who have drafted comparably at their positions over the same amount of time CAN NOT be continually giving away 1st and 2nd round picks and pretending that somehow someway they can bargain bin their way in to quality depth. it doesn't happen. The end result is EXACTLY what we've seen. Trading away high value picks to move cap space because we signed an overpriced contract in free agency; then using remaining picks or prospects hoping to find a star that just needed a change of scenery and when that doesn't happen we then trade away high value picks to another team that knows what we need and can bend us over for it. Something has to change

Sadly, it wouldn't be. You'd need a 45 point monster on the wing that was essentially garland with size and snarl. That's a $5 million player and really doesn't exist on many teams in the league. Boeser is the perfect odd man out due to his contract age and the issues with his health. Both physical and mental. But that HAS to be done with the caveat that his production would not be easily reproduced at all and taking away that level of production makes the Canucks a sub average scoring team if we aren't seeing improved production across the board.

Boeser scored at a .74 ppg pace last year. He's a .78 ppg career RW which is generously stated a top winger in the league no matter how people want to play it. The canucks were 12th in league scoring on the backs of career years from Hughes, Petey and Horvat. 31 of our 270 goals for came from horvat meaning that without his production we realistically scored more middle of the road. Taking away Boesers 18 goals as well drops us down to about a 20th place team for scoring in the league. Horvat is gone fine; unsustainable numbers and all. Boeser being gone further erodes our scoring ability. Replacing that level of production will not be easy. A more versatile and useful all around RW might be more beneficial in keeping possession numbers up and improving our defensive game as well. Ab may have another gear and be a 60+ point winger without issue playing in Boesers seat or FT with petey but I haven't seen it. Garland, I love him. If he was even Beauvillier's size he'd be a top 6 winger on any team in the league but people want to harp on his size and suggest that somehow he is not worth his contract, when his 5v5 production is still some of the best in the league. he is uber versatile and he has the type of engine that just doesn't quit. You can not replace that level of work ethic or drive. There's no easy answer to this. For pure value right now, Boeser and Garland are the best to keep. Boeser may finally be injury free with something to prove. .74 ppg last season will be vital in helping this team maintain its trajectory. Garland you know what you have with him and now Tocchet gets hm for a full year Beauvillier has the easier contract to move and as such is the odd man out. BUT!!! For all the harping people do. Boeser would be the smartest to move out because he would generate the best return. Stop making insane threads about how nobody will touch him without a 1st, or a 2nd attached. FAR worse contracts with FAR worse production have been moved for actual value. Same goes with Garland, his contract is not that bad at all. There's no easy answer to this. For myself, I risk it and keep garland and Beauvillier and wish Boeser the best. but I see no harm nor foul in releasing any of them, with AB being the most obvious trade target based on his age and cap hit

Who replaces Boeser .74 ppg production this season alone on the wing? Or his .78 ppg career? Those aren't easy numbers to replace and while a more versatile winger might also be a far better overall option; the Canucks were 12th in league scoring this year on the backs of career years fro Hughes and Petey but are more realistically a middle of the pack 14-16 team as the Knights, Avs, Pens and Canes all had down years for scoring behind the Canucks. Ensuring that production is replaced will be essential; especially factoring in that a generous portion of our 260 goals scored came from Horvat before he left

Why would he waive? More importantly. For a team that after a literal decade of drafting top 10 barring the Boeser year and Lekkerimaki last year; that has been a perennial loser barring the covid bubble that has literally zero cap space or prospects or hope for the future with only two young stars in petey and hughes; why does it make sense to again just jettison picks to get rid of a contract that might simply have been injured or underperforming? We need to get out of this mindset and in a hurry. We will never acquire the depth or draft capital we need to get out of this perpetual hole of failure and sub mediocrity if we keep doing the exact same thing