ToTellTheTruth

Good subject too bad it is necessary. Don Leo Jonathan! The man in tights! He looks really big but he wasn't to me, big, but not that big. Before the Canucks there was no one, the Agridome so long before. I did like the Canadiens a bit, roasted, fried or boiled that is.

You do know that there is more than one player on the team right? Are you so naïve to believe Stillman is the reason they lose? If anything it is on the high priced talent guys Talk talk about Stillman and Bruce when it is Allvin who should be the center of attention. It is not Stillman's fault there are no support players for him like Hughes gets. With this line up Boudreau could just pull names out of a hat and it would be hard to pick any better line up. Maybe if Bruce really wants to send a message he should pull Hughes off the ice after his 3rd, 4th or 5th turnover. Some team threw waffles on the ice, fans here should throw something to go with the turnovers. :D turnovers at the restaurant are 8 bucks each but on the ice they are free!

Pretty much the same team as always, if they allow 4 goals they lose and if they score 5 they win. Every now and then they catch a team that takes them too lightly and stumbles. Insider says he heard two stalwarts would not mind being traded. I am surprised I thought the number would be much higher. What is the hardest thing to do in the NHL is score goals and these guys are going all out to pad their stat line so some team may want them, as Bruce said "stats" players. Even Rutherford said it would be good for the team the more Horvat scores so that goes for everyone else too. Arizona is fast and fairly young by Canucks standards, they only have a dozen NHL players 25 and under on the team to Vancouver's six 25 and under. Speed kills so Arizona gets within one win of the Canucks. They have had it really hard to start the year essentially living out of suitcases out of 21 games they have been the home team only 4 times but they have 3 in hand on the Nucks. Don't expect anything and the way they are going it is hard not to guess a loss. But they will not lose them all. Sure hope Allvin doesn't use Demko's injury as a reason to keep this circus together. That is what a lazy and stupid GM does when baffled. Or he trades away a 1rst for a goalie.

Not yet. With the end result looking more obvious Miller can be dealt. If building for the future is now the idea, hopefully, then there are possible trade partners. Kuzmenko and Miller to Washington with 50% retention this year should get quite a return or any number of other teams Horvat is playing half way for himself and his contract and the team, can't blame him 9 years of losing. The team has to be pro-active on Pettersson, he has already stated he wanted to see how the team as going so he may want out, better the team initiates than being held to task. If Demko's injury is not as serious as it looked make a deal to move him to California, there are three teams that could use him. Rutherford set the stage and talked the talk but hired or assigned the wrong person to run the team, Allvin is making big mistakes trying to fix this bad mix instead of doing the hard job.

Could always try to package Horvat with one of those, it would diminish the return but open up the cap space eventually. Say Miller and Schenn to ? for picks and a prospect maybe take back a bad contract. re-sign Schenn and give him a letter with a longer term or much more money. Horvat with 50% retention or retention based on return. One year. BB and Pearson, again with retention based return, two years of hurt. Myers is after July 1 and then might as well keep him to see how thins are, he will have higher value to a desperate team in a playoff hunt or position at the TDL, big RHD that can play over 20 minutes could get a very good return. Stillman, maybe give the kid more of a chance, they would have to play the kids at sometime anyway, a learning season, he hasn't had much NHL time Probably not a lot of Suzuki's out there but there could be a diamond or two. Another year goes by but with hope :D improvement for the future.

For about 3 or 4 years and then what? This core group is already 2+ years into a win now window. Maybe if this was a winning team they could be added on to but they aren't. The contracts that need to go will cost the future, so fewer draft picks, no one wants them why would they? Unless they are allowed to run out and that costs time which adds to the cost of the next contract. So get cap space to keep the status quo, spend more of the future to save time, and still have to sign better players than those jettisoned. The circle, rid of contracts = minus draft picks, subtract draft picks and no low cost players increase the cap expense, the time it takes to do diminishes player skill levels as players get older, so the team needs more picks but has to jettison contracts to pay that decades stars so on and on. They have to break the mold they are in. The Canucks have about two heart beats to decide on their next course, Horvat and Kuzmenko or are they planning ahead without Horvat, Pettersson or Kuzmenko and having a 33 yr old Miller or Demko with hip problems? What is their goal? Playoffs and that is it? Gillis had 6 to 8 core players in the same age bracket all under 30 yrs old even Luongo was under 30 with a well managed cap, Nonis didn't leave him starting behind the 8 ball. There is no comparison. You think this group named will compete for a cup if kept together in your lifetime. Petey is 24 yr old already. Truly fantasy thinking, contacts just disappear, players get better every year, they are all content to play losing hockey and will take discounts to stay, draft picks and prospects magically appear. Instant gratification in spades. No I think fixing this mess will take 3 years at least and during that 3 years the foundation for a decade of success/playoffs/cup contenders could be built but the cost is most likely some of those named otherwise it is a decade where the West Coast Express was the best that could be hoped for never getting beyond the 2nd round. Just that = close over and over again.

Juloevi was obviously the product of the team he played on and not showing growth on a good team, other defencemen on lesser teams were showing marked improvement. Chyrchun was the guy that year and then he fell off a cliff but Sergachev and McAvoy rocketed up from nowhere and were rising whereas Juloevi basically stayed the same, it wasn't that he got better, they were catching him. Another aspect is his size, he hadn't got much bigger for a year suggesting he was a man playing amongst boys already and not improving.

7- 2 Florida GWG - Verhaeghe Florida early and often.

He already is on LTIR A sad commentary when a future FA player is getting a hit record and that is the good news Rutherford said as much, Demko covered up too many holes in the team. The game; Hard to figure, if Barkov plays Florida wins, if Tkachuk does Tkachuk type things Florida wins. If Demko does Bubble Demko things the Canucks win. The Canucks need a better effort than the Washington game. They can't allow themselves to be run over again. Florida is just as big as Washington but younger and faster, with more truculence. Canucks are again squeezing the sticks too tight and afraid of losing anymore ground. Last game they circled the wagons in their zone but gave up too many odd man rushes to a slower team than Florida. I expect a dirty game, lots of face washing and hard hits. Bennet has been quiet for awhile. I'll throw the dice in Florida's favor.

Just trying to find some different content than the last 6 years. I notice the forum has fewer and fewer posters, indifference is taking hold. Posts derailed, posters being the subject instead of the post and trolls beating the bushes making arguments without substance. Same forum content and same team results, won't change until the GM, Allvin, makes changes otherwise just tune in to a soap opera. My two bits worth, there is nothing to keep. They have had 4 years to show more than a flash and 6 point improvement, they are like watching a game of horseshoes keep getting close and think that is good enough. The only thing they have entrenched is a losing environment and attitude but that happens when a team loses 2 games for every one they win. BOOM!

Play better, okay, but play better and win? In a rather pedestrian game where the diminutive Canucks were outmuscled and out worked it is hard to think of cheer leading. Washington had several core players missing and they are the oldest team in the league, but skill does surpass age sometimes. I await the proof that this is a good team yet, sure they can win every now and then, even a broken clock is right twice a day but they have still lost 5 games more than they have won and that is with many teams in turmoil. There were no bright spots in this game even Pettersson was on the ice for more goals against than the goalie, Hughes coughing up the puck players avoiding hits/bumps, did Horvat play? Bad game bad results but happening with too much regularity going back many years. And people want to keep the group together at all costs, weird!

Over and over again the reason for not doing anything is the cap and that affects most NHL teams if not all. Some of those that have cap space have other financial concerns possibly internal caps. But all these reason's, the lack of cap space is making improvement too hard and go to show how important cap space is to building a team. The cap space acquired in any deal has to considered a very high asset, the fewer teams that have any at all the higher the value. If the cap is that important as it is now then getting that cap space at almost any cost should be a first or top priority. What the team gets in return for some players should almost be secondary right now. Even losing a trade if cap space is made may be a bigger win than any return of trade. There is a price for winning, often future assets like 1rst rnd picks or moving a player they really didn't want to so they get under the cap, but those reasons are for winning teams that are capped out Now there is a price to be paid for the Canucks, a decade long losing team that has been and still is capped out. These bloated contracts are the direct result of not having a plan. IMO if they got 2nd rnd pick for Miller, great, a 3rd for Garland good, a 4th for Boeser okay, a 3rd for Myers great, 7th for OEL fantastic. These returns create cap space and that has unlimited possibilities. None of the players listed are irreplaceable non are lynch pins to the extremely limited success of the team. Even Horvat at his age now or possibly Hughes are not so great that they are not replaceable, lots of defencemen in the league are scoring at higher rates than Hughes, now Horvat and Hughes would get better returns, they should get 1rst's back. Combined with the massive amount of cap space rebuilding the team can be very rapid. With cap space they can be the 3rd in deal, trade for a bad contract for top picks or prospects, trade with a contender for a young NHL player, pay Pettersson's next contract. Every year there are many FA's available like Micheal Stone, a serviceable defence man he was available and cheap or a couple of older players on one or two year contracts cheap, RFA's that can be given offer sheets. While the examples listed do nothing for today's team, today's team has had 4/6 years to do something besides get paid or show a 10 point improvement so what they finish 29th to 32nd, this team has been close to that for 7 years. Cap space will build a winning team quickly, imagine Pietrangelo and Hamilton at 17 mil instead of Myers and OEL at 14 mil, or been able to been in on Forsberg, Kadri or any top FA, that is just an example. Players of that calibre will available every year. The cap is the most important trade the team can make, it gets them out of the morass of the inability to do anything and the requirement of dollar in dollar out. Retention can get them up to 10 million in cap space, but 10 mil in retention for a few years and time they can use to make other trades.

Yes but they played more games than other teams. Same with point stats and standings. They are 28th in points but 31rst in adjusted points or points per game And that is with playing the best players on the team heavily, what if they played less?

2023 NHL Draft Lottery Simulator SIM LOTTERY RESET PICK TEAM RECORD PTS PPG RW STREAK L10 ODDS 1 2 Vancouver 4-9-3 11 0.688 4 Lost 3 4-5-1 11.5% 2 1 Anaheim 4-10-1 9 0.600 0 Lost 3 3-7-0 18.5% 3 1 Columbus 4-9-1 9 0.643 3 Lost 1 3-6-1 13.5% 4 Ottawa 5-9-1 11 0.733 5 Lost 1 2-7-1 9.5% 5 San Jose 5-9-3 13 0.765 2 Won 2 4-3-3 8.5% 6 St. Louis 6-8-0 12 0.857 5 Won 3 3-7-0 7.5% 7 Nashville 6-8-1 13 0.867 5 Won 1 4-6-0 6.5% 8 Arizona 6-8-1 13 0.867 6 Lost 2 5-4-1 6.0% 9 Buffalo 7-8-0 14 0.933 6 Lost 5 3-7-0 5.0% 10 Washington 7-8-2 16 0.941 7 Lost 1 3-5-2 3.5% 11 Chicago 6-6-3 15 1.000 4 Lost 1 3-4-3 3.0% 12 Pittsburgh 6-6-3 15 1.000 6 Lost 1 2-6-2 2.5% 13 Minnesota 7-6-2 16 1.067 5 Lost 1 6-3-1 2.0% 14 Philadelphia 7-6-2 16 1.067 7 Lost 3 3-5-2 1.5% 15 NY Rangers 8-6-3 19 1.118 7 Won 1 5-4-1 0.5% 16 Montreal 8-6-1 17 1.133 5 Won 3 5-4-1 0.5% END OF LOTTERY 17 Calgary 7-6-2 16 1.067 6 Won 2 3-5-2 18 Edmonton 9-7-0 18 1.125 9 Won 1 6-4-0 19 Detroit 7-5-3 17 1.133 6 Lost 3 4-5-1 20 Florida MON 8-6-1 17 1.133 7 Lost 1 5-5-0 21 Tampa Bay CHI 8-6-1 17 1.133 7 Won 1 6-3-1 22 Los Angeles 10-7-1 21 1.167 7 Lost 1 6-3-1 23 Toronto 8-5-3 19 1.188 7 Won 1 4-3-3 24 Seattle 8-5-3 19 1.188 8 Lost 2 6-3-1 25 Colorado 8-5-1 17 1.214 7 Lost 1 6-4-0 26 Dallas NYR 9-5-1 19 1.267 9 Won 1 5-5-0 27 NY Islanders 11-6-0 22 1.294 9 Won 2 8-2-0 28 Carolina 10-5-1 21 1.312 7 Won 1 6-4-0 CONFERENCE FINAL LOSERS 29 Winnipeg 9-4-1 19 1.357 5 Won 1 7-2-1 30 New Jersey 12-3-0 24 1.600 10 Won 9 9-1-0 STANLEY CUP FINAL TEAMS 31 Vegas 13-3-0 26 1.625 10 Lost 1 9-1-0 32 14-2-0 28 1.750 11 Won 4 9-1-0

The coach, the coach, the coach! Green has already been fired! All this coach stuff, are posters in denial or something? What will changing the coach accomplish? Another new whipping boy to blame? Some guy to irritate players more? A sudden reversal of play? Horvat Petersson and Miller are already playing at least as good as last year ditto Hughes. A new coach going to whip Demko into shape or cause him more loss of confidence. IT IS NOT THE COACH! All this coach talk is just false hope and denial being expressed, only a very naïve kid would be fooled into thinking it would change anything. There have been 6 coaches with this group the last year and a bit. No difference. There are no more players for any coach to try to put together and the same core player's as the last 4 years are having the same results as the last 4 years, isn't that just a hint of the root problem? At this point the team would need to win more than 2 out of 3 games the rest of the season to make the last WC spot. If the second best of all time regular season coach can't make a team do that how can another less experienced guy do it? Alvin has to change what any coach has to pick from, Alvin has to change the room, Alvin has to create hope for the PLAYERS. ALVIN not Rutherford. Alvin is the GM not Rutherford. If Rutherford makes changes it starts with Alvin, he can say anything he wants but it is Alvin that runs the team and is making decisions now. If Rutherford undermines Alvin then Alvin's days are done. ALVIN! And the group of players are the issue. Alvin should get a bit of a break for awhile yet until the TDL at least and draft at the most to see if he can repair this group of broken parts.

There would no one left to play. The players are trying, but are playing as has been said, not to lose, afraid to lose, afraid to be the point of failure Do people really think another new coach will make a difference? If Yeo was hired to be the heir apparent then they cannot let him coach this year with this group of players. There is no apparent central leadership on the team is seems like different groups.

Fans have to stop concentrating on Bruce, there is no line up he has not tried either at the start of game or during it. I see injuries to roster players is going to used as an excuse soon. Canucks start off with almost 164 man games lost this year thanks to Ferland and Poolman alone, Dermott can be good for another 40 or so by the looks of it. Then there are the 4th liners to throw in there, but that is an excuse and not relevant at all. Buffalo started at the same time as the Canucks and neither team has won a cup, that is disgusting but if there is a team closer today Buffalo has to considered much, much closer. Two STUD defencemen and 13 players 26 and under. Buffalo is fast, they are learning and it appears they are shedding their losing culture but they had to move many veterans and get lot of young guys on the roster, NHL calibre guys, star level. Buffalo will start off hot this game, Vancouver will start off desperate. Buffalo has a 5 game losing streak going Vancouver a 3 game streak. One team is ending their streak. Vancouver is now 30th in the league they could be 32nd if the two teams below them win a game. Game management will be or could be the deciding factor, logic would indicate that Vancouver should be the more tired team and get many more hooking and holding calls against them considering the speed difference but Game Management will keep it close. Buffalo wins, fans call for Bruce's head not realizing or not caring that it is the team not the coach.

Talking about Pettersson. I can't find any youth. I don't know your criteria for youth. Meaningful youth, guys that are future scorers, impact players? Or Roster guys? There are quite a few AHL guys on the team, them? Haven't most of these guys been called "youth" for 5 or 6 years now? Or Longer? When looking at decade long playoff teams many had youth, but that youth was winning in the playoffs and regular season games when they were in their very early 20's like 20 yrs old, not 24 yrs old, by that time Crosby, Toews and even Ovy's teams had already won a cup or played for more than one, maybe not Ovy, his team kept running into Pittsburgh. IF Pettersson, through his agent, indicates he wants out he the rest of the league would know as soon as he is being shopped unless management does it earlier and for a rebuild reason, to get many draft picks or to move up in the draft but the team would have to get that message out there, that they are re-"building" for the future. Petey would easily get a move up AND an additional 1rst pick and prospect. That could mean the Canucks have 4 first round picks over two years, their own and the other teams.

Petey isn't winning anything by himself, there is no "I" in team. With as good as he is playing now they are not winning, his NHL career so faar has been filled with losing almost 2 games to on Didn't he say he only signed for 3 years because he wanted to see the direction of the team, that he wanted to play for a cup and in the playoffs? Kinda sounded like his time line was 3 years, 2 now. Doesn't that kind of hint of Tkachuk or Dubois?

With the new way the NHL is calling in front of the net the team needs very large strong players because tying up the stick is looked at as hooking more and more often. Small guys can't "box" out in front and loose most board battles. Large players play better in small spaces,, have a longer wing span and mostly are harder to shield away from the puck. They can also have a much bigger impact, literally in checking. Smaller guys avoid body checking reducing the effectiveness. Players like McNabb won't win any scoring races but players try to avoid him when skating down the ice. All those named above were large and hit like trucks even Edler

"WE" can't do anything unfortunately except continue to express fan expectations in a few forms. The question I posed was not what was needed but what fans think. Fans like players, professionals playing for pay Or Teams that compete for championships. It is distinguishing between fan expectations. Those that are player only will cheer even if the team never wins a game, participation is the most important thing. Then there those that take pride in their team having success as measured by comparing to other teams, the standings. Both support the team but one will end up irritating or trolling others because they are satisfied all the time. Fans that take pride in their team will suggest trades, strategies or improvements even if they are never acted on. Fans that are players only will criticize those that make those suggestion or even question those that quote the measurements used to determine good from bad. Player fans think praying will help them win, age doesn't matter and "meh, things happen and no body can stop them from happening, things just happen" Some still think Benning was a hero and built a great team that just needs, fans to cheer them on, winning is really secondary

What is more important to you, players or team? Players play for money or contracts. Teams play for Championships

I have, I am just desperately trying to find a silver lining. All those losing years and most of time they were not facing the best the other team had, goalies, or effort even star players got a rest.

What is young? Ottawa or Montreal both have a top line younger than Pettersson? With more upside than Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Garland who are all in their primes now, at the peak of their health and strength? Is young having 12 NHL regulars that are under 25 yrs old? 23 yrs old? Or is young 27 or 28 mostly because you are in your 40's or 50's? Pettersson is 24 years old today, drafted in 2017 and in his 5th year in the NHL Even Hughes was drafted in 2018 5 years ago. Is there ANY other players of impact as young as them? Or younger as most teams seem to have already? Is your idea of supporting them for today or 2 or 3 years from now? Win now? Just like the last 8 years? Trading away 1rst round picks for essentially a 3 year rental or an anchor contract in OEL? Those were supposed moves to "support" the young core of TWO players. The idea that the Canucks have a young team is so misleading, age does not mean good and playing young players that are support players or 3rd 4th liners doesn't mean a good team, just younger in overall age. A matter of quantity over quality. By the time, in 3 years, Pettersson is 27 going on 28, at his peak, Hughes is also 3 years older so who are the next ones? Podkolzin? Maybe, three or four 30+ year old's? Who? If the team keeps on like it is FA's will not want to come here, if the team has a solid rebuilding plan then veteran star players like Giroux will want to come here and take a bit of a hair cut. Hey this team used to be like that under Gillis, top FA's taking a hair cut to play here. Youth doesn't mean good if the skill isn't there and star level or higher skill only comes from the draft.

Pettersson needs to have a great game