Hugor Hill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 maybe i wasn't clear with what i meant by "unravel deeply," but i think Tony would be a perfect example of a character unraveling. there just is no resolve, or re-building. his issues and personality are very literally unraveled and teased apart throughout the duration of the show (through his analyst). but i do agree that he doesn't have a specific arc throughout the show. if anything, the series basically proves how troubled he is as an individual and how sociopathic he can be. but the show around him, and the characters around him, are just oozing with arcs and development. but he is the focus, because he is the man of action in the show. it is a character driven story far more than it is a plot driven one (perhaps why the ending was so perfect, as frustrating as it was). and i don't disagree that GRRM could very well have "something to say" about this at the end. i totally admit that many of the characters (male AND female) have potential to be great or good or even interesting, but i just don't think many of them have been so far. i do get what you're saying, I guess. but I do think a character like Jaime is really well done, not just in season 3. he has gone through a pretty consistent shift throughout most of the series. Baelish, too, is a good character because he's intelligent, sneaky, and has the (apparent) ability to shift the plot on a whim. not many others are like that. i do totally object to saying "we" enjoyed Dany so much in S1. I have thought her character was nearly unwatchable through the entire series. her dialogue makes me cringe, and while I do love Arya's plot, I don't remember ever enjoying her as an individual in the show, let alone in S2 specifically none of that even really matters in terms of enjoyment though. Tywin is my favourite character, but come on, he's basically just cruelty personified. not really a whole lot going on there. we like what we like Cool. Agreed on all points pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 not cool, however, is how i was just watching a video on youtube about some thug-speaking toddler, and as i scrolled down to read the comments, someone typed (for no apparent reason) what i suspect to be a spoiler for this weekends episode. that or he's just trolling, which i certainly hope is the case guys, don't read any comments on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 not cool, however, is how i was just watching a video on youtube about some thug-speaking toddler, and as i scrolled down to read the comments, someone typed (for no apparent reason) what i suspect to be a spoiler for this weekends episode. that or he's just trolling, which i certainly hope is the case guys, don't read any comments on the internet The net is dark and full of spoilers. But... The net is dark and also full of errors. So.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 can you put it in spoiler tags for those brave enough to be curious like myself? pls nd thks Look at you, pretending to be a non-reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I heard guys think it's cute so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 On a different note I have two tickets for the season finale on the big screen to sell off in Toronto. Who wants them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beluga Whale Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) probably just a case of different strokes then. i like Arya's story, and i think sansa's has picked up as well. i wasn't trying to suggest that the female stories aren't interesting, i just don't necessarily care about whether many of them live or die. but i think Arya's character is pretty much static. does that make her a BAD character? not imo, but it certainly doesn't make her a good one. she's basically like one and a half emotions spread out over 10-15 minutes of screen time a season. most of this time is devoted to reiterating her desire for revenge and being a mild comedic foil to the Hound (naive optimism vs. relentless cynicism) as for sansa, I don't think a character arc makes a character good (its a pretty basic aspect of every narrative you can name), and i don't think sansa's is even defined yet, let alone "a hell of one" -- both of these characters are only valuable because of their names, not because of their action, not because of their intelligence, not because of ability or even agency. they are just products of their environment and the story that moves without them, not because of them (both have potential to change this). Baelish is a fantastic character because he has the intelligence and agency to change the story on a whim--maybe he will pass this off onto sansa, but he hasn'tt yet. the way you praise them seems entirely hinged on what COULD happen, not what has happened. the desire for vengeance doesn't make a good story; it's the action of vengeance that does. sansa has started to play the game--as we know from like 30 seconds of screen time. what does it mean? we don't even know yet, so i'm not really sold that it necessarily means anything if sansa and arya (or even danerys and malesandre) died in the next episode, i have absolutely no idea how anyone could consider them good, let alone great characters. they may develop into something more than they are as the show goes, but what they are now isn't much imo. a lot of talk, little movement. they benefit from viewer anticipation. character development is slow as molasses in this show, except for two or three people. this is basically one of the many reasons i grew tired of the books after the second. why waste the time on 3500 pages on sloth like movement? the show is simply better. anyway, i agree that a character doesn't need control to be great, but i do think great characters have agency, have intelligence (or humour), and should be active in the narrative. a lot of GoT characters talk about being these things, but don't actually do anything. so for that, i think the plot and world (and Martin's shameless deus ex machina love) make the show engaging, not many of its characters I disagree that Arya is a static character or has been "towed along". At the beginning she a rebellious tomboy, but she's changed by tragic events into a bad ass vigilante. As she experiences this journey we see her personality and principles come to the fore. While she's had people around guiding her, she's still carved her own path. I could find many examples of where she displays agency or her intelligence. I wouldn't say Sansa is great character but she still is a good character. She may not have done anything significant yet but we've watched her go through horrible things and now we see her start to change this season and become someone who does more than sit back. I find characters like that interesting and I think that great character arcs usually result in great characters. Edited June 13, 2014 by Beluga Whale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He-Lord Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 bold part: where do you see me saying this? i'm not really sure that's what i meant. as for the Jaime thing, i think i must be missing something with Arya and Sansa, because with the exception of the very recent hint for something more, I have no idea what Sansa has really done in the show. Arya, for the most part, has been towed along. i don't think i said that these things are BAD, contrary to that I think Arya's story is totally engaging, but not because of what she does, or what she says. jaime has gone through a lot: he raped, he killed, lost a limb, crippled a Stark, been kidnapped, been freed, been in love, fallen out of love (sort of?), and he is literally called a kingslayer. he has done a lot and been involved in a lot, and we have seen his attitude change in the process. and we know he is a powerful person not only because of his actions and ability, but also because of his name and intelligence. so yes, i think even when jaime takes a back seat in the narrative (or is bossed around by Tywin), we can really expect anything, because he has done everything. Sansa and Arya have spent most of the show being towed around by older, more intelligent, stronger men. done very little, say very little, and that's sort of it. i think and hope this will change soon, thoughExcept that Sansa and Arya are still pretty much kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Psh. Melisandre is a great female character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanev Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Season finale tonight! Could be one of the best episodes of the series.- I'm hoping Stanis, Bran, and Jon's storylines intersect soon, as they are all marching north- Will Tyrion escape death yet again?- What does littlefinger have in store next? How about the Hound/Arya?- Will Dany do something relevant to the other storylines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Season finale tonight! Could be one of the best episodes of the series. - I'm hoping Stanis, Bran, and Jon's storylines intersect soon, as they are all marching north - Will Tyrion escape death yet again? - What does littlefinger have in store next? How about the Hound/Arya? - Will Dany do something relevant to the other storylines? I don't see much of your questions having any relevant answers in the season finale tonight. Next season(s) I would say yes. For the Dany haters, it's been way too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 would be way better without the 'you know nothing jon snow' thing link to his other work? cute style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Going to a viewing party at a friends apartment for the finale. Gonna Cersei it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well, that was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Well, that was awesome. As a book reader, that was a little disappointing for me. But I can see how awesome it can be for the non-readers. Edited June 16, 2014 by Hugor Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Habitat Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Was it the finale ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Plow Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Wow that was amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) As a book reader, that was a little disappointing for me. But I can see how awesome it can be for the non-readers. In retrospect, perhaps I was a little generous with "awesome." It was good, definitely better then the majority of the episodes in this otherwise underwhelming season. The fight scene followed by the scene between Arya and The Hound was terrific. Edited June 16, 2014 by Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So is Dany's leadership finally starting to show it's cracks? The dragon thing interests me. Drogon is the one who is out of control so she chains up the other 2. Even so in the long term what happens as they get older? That will only work for so long. Also didn't Aegon have his dragons trained? They were much bigger than Dany's dragons now and he used to ride them and seemed to have control of them to my knowledge (unless I am overlooking something lore fanatics). Are Dany's dragons or simply Drogon not trained because she put no effort into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Felt unfulfilled by that episode. Disappointed no more Tywin/Tyrion scenes. Tyrion being sent to meet up with Littlefinger? Dany? Unfullfilment may be because expectations were too hight. Edited June 16, 2014 by Down by the River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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