The Changes Needed - Merged

[C.Schneider]

i'll let gillis and AV make those decisions....AV will be here for several years, i hope......luongo is one of the best goalies in the world.....and this team, gm, coaches and players got us to the scf's....why are you even discussing changes?....you make it sound like we've already lost and you've given up on them....this team will give everything they have to win the cup and so will boston.....every year there are winners and losers...if you've lost faith in your team, i'ld put you in the second category....be a fan and cheer for your team, win or lose.

What makes you think some fans don't want their team to improve, even if they come out first?

Why is it such a hard concept for some people to grasp that 'improving' and 'change' are both critical components in maintaining the number 1 status in a league where you know your competitors will keep evolving?

Basically you're saying we should only be reactive and not proactive?

[C.Schneider]

Can we drop the "dynasty" discussions?

In today's NHL it is impossible to have a "Dynasty" - you know - a team that wins like 3 or 4 cups in a row. It's just not going to happen.

Anyone thinking the Canucks are or can be a "Dynasty" is delusional....

I would consider the Wings to be a Dynasty.

You don't need to win the cups 3 or 4 years in a row; you just need a team that will compete at a high level and bring the opportunity every year.

[C.Schneider]

I agree with all your assessments except Ehrhoff and Salo.

Ehrhoff has been a workhorse this season, he is simply burnt out. I'll put some blame on the coaching staff cuz they felt the need to play him 30 mins a game when we had the President's Trophy well in hand. I'm sure we would notice a drop in team offense if he is not with us next year. I'll say he definitely fits on this team, but I will also say at what price? If we can get him for $4.5M, I'm all for it.

I would also turn to Kevin Bieksa. Without Mitchell or Hamhuis to bail him out, he is looking like a lost puppy again. Bieksa often gets the benefit of playing with good linemates (Sedin line and Hamhuis) so I feel his stats are overinflated. I don't think he deserves to be a top pairing defenseman if he needs good stay at home to make him look good. I certainly wouldn't dish out the big bucks to re-sign him ($3M max)

Salo is old, but still an excellent player. If we can't re-sign Ehrhoff and/or Bieksa, he would still be a good short term solution at $2M a year. But I wouldn't want him on the team at the expense of Tanev's development (who I think should be a regular next season)

Hoff has been solid for two consecutive seasons, and I can't argue the fact that he is simply burnt out. But I see Edler's potential higher than Hoff, and I value Bieksa's leadership and passion, which, in my opinion, makes Hoff expendable if he was to ask for the rumored $5M+.

As for Salo, if he was to sign for less than $2M, and patrol our 3rd pairing with Tanev, as you mentionned, he could defintely prove himself to be an asset as a mentor.

[Heretic]

I would consider the Wings to be a Dynasty.

You don't need to win the cups 3 or 4 years in a row; you just need a team that will compete at a high level and bring the opportunity every year.

Granted - of all the Teams the last decade - the Wings are right up there...but talking about the Canucks being a Dynasty when this is the first time since 1994 that we made it past the 2nd round and have yet (oh please let it be this year!) to even win a cup is....how do I say this....futile? Irrelevant? Arrogant? You get my drift...if the Canucks win 3 or 4 cups in a decade and make it to at least the conference finals in a couple of others, then I would consider them to be a "dynasty"....

[canuck_trevor16]

The only change needed is for you to go cheer for a long team TROLL!

[C.Schneider]

Granted - of all the Teams the last decade - the Wings are right up there...but talking about the Canucks being a Dynasty when this is the first time since 1994 that we made it past the 2nd round and have yet (oh please let it be this year!) to even win a cup is....how do I say this....futile? Irrelevant? Arrogant? You get my drift...if the Canucks win 3 or 4 cups in a decade and make it to at least the conference finals in a couple of others, then I would consider them to be a "dynasty"....

Hence why the first move is to dump Luongo and get picks in return, then solidify what has been our success this season which is our offense and a strong balanced blueline.

Being arrogant would define someone who believes the Canucks has already reached a Dynasty status after 1 successful year.

I'm saying we can begin to build towards such era as we have a strong foundation.

[C.Schneider]

The only change needed is for you to go cheer for a long team TROLL!

Do you have anything insightful to share? Or is this the full extent of your brain?

[Charlie.Sheen]

Tambi will play for Raymond if he can't play Game 7.

And I would take out Glass for Hodgson if Tambellini doesn't play well.

[C.Schneider]

Gillis, get it done sir.

[Riviera82]

<br />That was so bad I wouldn't even know where to start....<br /><br />To say Lou has had the least impact on our success this year is just cutting way to short and how was he out played by the previous goalies in these playoffs? we are in the cup finals aren't we? he shut the door in game 7 against the hawks didn't he? It's not like Thomas as been playing this stellar all playoff either.<br /><br />the Hoff, he's our top point producing and goal scoring D-man with a +19...nuff said.<br /><br />YA Salo's does get hurt But when he's here he's pretty solid and I don't think he's slowed down so much against Boston as much as he's trying to slow things down a bit when they are getting out of hand.<br /><br />Mikael Samuelsson.. well I kinda do agree on this one except Rome has a ring to.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Rome's ring was basically a consellation prize. A ring does not matter unless your name is engraved on the Stanley Cup, which Rome's name is not.

[Bodee]

To me, it's becoming blatantly evident the Canucks need a change in the off-season.

Some will come naturally, some will need magical tweaks by Gillis.

First off, this is not a rant because of the 2 game losing streak; rather, it is something that I have been scrutinizing for awhile, and despite the up and downs of the success these candidates showed throughout our magical regular season and the journey for the coveted Cup, you simply don't build a winning franchise with these pieces.

1. Alain Vigneault - AV, AV, AV... Jack Adams winner, and once again, nominee. Does he deserve this? Simply put, if stats meant everything, then sure, why not.

But whoever can look beyond the stats on paper can tell you in a heartbeat this guy is nowhere close to his fellow nominees. He has simply been out coached throughout his career, and especially in the playoffs, only to have the team bail him out for this year's cup run (knock on wood).

He can't coach, he can't motivate his players, he makes horrible decisions, and he certainly can't hide his favoritism. Be informed that blowout games, especially in the playoff, is largely responsible by the coach, and A.V. has contributed a good share of his bonehead decisions to completely destroy our willingness to fight and compete.

2. Roberto Luongo - ... Oh Luongo, where art thou? Where is the prowess, the speed, the agility we saw during your Panthers tenure? Ah nevermind that, where is the ability to stop the puck? Sarcasm aside, Luongo is a good goalie, but he definitely isn't the cornerstone of this franchise, no longer. Although he seemed brilliant in some games, you don't bring a goalie of his price to be brilliant for 'some' games.

Roberto Luongo had the least impact in contributing to the success of the Canucks this year. It is almost safe to assume he was the beneficiary of a strong defensive corp with the best offense in the league. That being said, Luongo had all the opportunity to prove himself in the playoff, but he has been out dueled by every single of his competitor - Crawford, Rinne, Niemi, and now Thomas. Which goalie hasn't been better than Luongo in the playoff? Is it really far-fetched to say Cory Schneider, given the opportunity, would perform no less than Crawford or Niemi?

Cory Schneider is ready, and he will come at half Luongo's price. Luongo needs to go, and Gillis needs to perform some magic to be able to ship Luongo off, even if we win the Stanley Cup this year. Luongo is more dependent to the team than the team is to him, and it makes sense to invest his excess salary cap to strengthen our top 9 forwards, or retain Juice.

3. Mason Raymond - It isn't crucial to deport him the first chance we get, but trade him when he has some left over value, if the trade is there.

I'll admit he brings more than speed to the game; he is defensively aware, he creates room for his linesmate, he brings puck bunnies to the rink, and he makes a fine candidate for Italia's national soccer team. A bigger, prettier, younger, two-way version of our beloved Brandon Reid, although I don't think Brandon, at half Mason's size, flopped as much as he did. But simply put, he just does not belong on our 2nd line.

Gillis did a remarkable job bringing Higgins (hopefully re-signs) to our team, and I truly believe Kesler and Higgins will only get better as their chemistry builds up. That 2nd line is in dire need of a 3rd member, and unfortunately, Raymond is not. So the question really is, do we utilize Mason on the third line? According to a nameless yahoo columnist, the Canucks depend on Raymond to deliver punishing checks... well, I think I'll just leave Torres, Bite my fingers, and Hansen to do just that. If Torres isn't re-signing here, I'd rather we get another two-way grinder that we can actually depend to deliver the physical game, in the mold of a la Bergenheim or Asham.

Our 4th line? Raymond has too much skills and potential to be rotting away beside Glass or Bolduc. Simply put, Raymond has no room in this roster.

4. Christian Erhoff - The Hoff. The way he is playing right now, I almost wish it was actually David on the ice so I can at least enjoy some form of entertainment.

Sure, Hoff doesn't seem to be himself after the injury, and to be fair, NO ONE on the blue line seems to know what to do anymore without Dan (oh Hamhuis... ). But his costly mistakes in our zone, his complete lack of confidence on the PP, the total crumbling through pressure he has on full display... he simply isn't an A caliber defensemen for a playoff atmopshere, and especially not for the money he will be commanding next season.

I'll be fair and say Hoff was truly our best offensive defensemen for the past regular seasons, and I'm glad he will be getting his deserved paycheck starting next season with a team like the Leafs, who absolutely does not know the meaning of playoff, or could not care less, but he has no place in the Canucks nation where no less is acceptable than a Stanley Cup. We need a fighter and a competitor, a guy more suited for a two way game. If not, someone who is a solid stay at home. I mean look.... we have one of the deepest defensive depth in the league, but we're so full of offensive defensemen that our Hamhuis replacement is Aaron Rome.

Erhoff does not fit here no longer.

5. Sami Salo - Mr. Glass, and no, not Tanner. His body is so easily breakable, you can bet your ass no one is going to ever buy a furniture made out of Finland.

Jokes aside, you have to admire the guy for playing through so many injuries; he has balls (well I sure hope he still does). Although you can't help but think... when is this guy going to take the message his body is preaching to him, and just retire.

Salo has been one of our best defensemen for years; he is solid in our zone, he has a rocket of a shot, and he seldom puts his big body to use. But we simply can't have a defensemen who shows up for a dozen games per season, while making 3 million and above. Furthermore, it is painful to watch how much Salo has slowed down in the Boston series due to the physical game both teams are playing.

Hopefully, Gillis will just let Salo walk, if Salo decides to return next season for another dozen games.

6. Mikael Samuelsson - Last but not the least, Mr. the only Stanley Cup ring owner in a Canucks uniform.

Mikael Samuelsson... actually I won't waste my time with this guy. Just ship him out, he isn't even playing anyways. Worthless.

Am I allowed to say that reads like a load of bollocks! .................imo:-)

[CanuckLeaf]

Journey to becoming a dynasty...really? please lets win one first.

[Kevin Biestra]

I didn't agree with this post, and just don't have the energy to bother arguing point-by-point...

[Primal Optimist]

to the OP: if the game seven stanley cup finals were not enough for you, your going to have a crapty life full of disappointments. Enjoy it, but enjoy it over there, way over there, where I don't need to hear you.

EDIT: Oh and for your own personal growth I will give you this free advice: I fire people in my organization who are happy to talk about the problems without offering any angle on solutions. I don't even waste my time telling them this bit of advice. It is clear once they engage the mouth and not the brain that they are the left over DNA from an almost extinct hominid, the Neanderthal Man. Were you to sit at my desk and present what you just did to me, it would be the last thing you ever did before security escorted you back to clean out your locker.

[snucks]

Most of all they need to get rid of the Orca logo. Just the Stick and rink logo will be fine.

[Zing!]

1. AV, sure he's made some inexplicable decisions. But all coaches do that. Like wtf was Babcock doing sitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the final minute of Game 7.

Sure AV's not a cheerleader type coach. He's a systems coach. And this system got to within 1 game of the Stanley Cup Finals. Something must be right. And no, don't buy the whole team carrying him deal. Not every team with talent can make it without a good system. For example, did you know AV has the players practicing a toe drag move to stay onside when getting pucks at the blue line. Result?

The little things, habits, etc the team did to win. AV has had a hand in them.

2. Roberto Luongo... I'm willing to give him a satisfactory overall performance. Yes, disappointing finals. But overall, satisfactory. Given that this is his first year with Rollie. His first year changing his style, and it hasn't even been a year, more like 7 months. Think about that, changing his style part way into a year, after years and years of playing differently. With an offseason to work out the kinks, maybe completely erase all his old habits.

That said, there's also another thing going against him. Every "good" goalie wins the big one has that stud D in front of him. We've seen Chara, Keith, Weber, and coincidentally, their goalies looked amazing. We've seen Niemi and the Sharks, and coincidentally, we completely exposed him. Where has Broduer been since Scott Stevens retired and Niedermayer left the Devils? Good stats for him during the regular season, but hasn't passed the 2nd round. That sound familiar to any other goalie?

But still, I do hope we see more of Schnieder. More real competition will be better. May the best one win, we'll be better for it.

3. Mason Raymond, yes disappointment offensively. Can't fault effort, he uses his speed forechecks well. No finish and no play making abilities though. One thing to consider, he did break his hand midseason. Maybe just a confidence, timing thing after that incident. Will he recover... I don't know. If only he wasn't rehabbing this summer and was able to do something to add to his skill set..

4. Christian Ehrhoff. He's only good when he has the offensive shot, and if Edler is playing at the top of his game. Otherwise, we saw the errorhoff San Jose called him. I'd think he overpriced himself out of Vancouver.

5. Sami Salo is a good vet presence still. I'd keep him cheap. Maybe a 1M with another 1M of bonuses, he qualifies as he's over 35. Just has to play enough and can still get good games out of him.

6. Mikhail Samuellson, he's still good vet presence. Tried to play through his bad back the latter half of the season + playoffs. He's also the guy that got the team to buy into the play whistle to whistle thing. He probably has use on the bottom 6, I'd like us to have someone that can give us that John Madden, or Mark Recchi experience.

Here's to looking forward to July 1st and seeing what Gillis has in store.

[C.Schneider]

to the OP: if the game seven stanley cup finals were not enough for you, your going to have a crapty life full of disappointments. Enjoy it, but enjoy it over there, way over there, where I don't need to hear you.

EDIT: Oh and for your own personal growth I will give you this free advice: I fire people in my organization who are happy to talk about the problems without offering any angle on solutions. I don't even waste my time telling them this bit of advice. It is clear once they engage the mouth and not the brain that they are the left over DNA from an almost extinct hominid, the Neanderthal Man. Were you to sit at my desk and present what you just did to me, it would be the last thing you ever did before security escorted you back to clean out your locker.

Actually, the way these players played, and the way the team played in game 7, a Stanley Cup wouldn't have been enough.

I guess you're used to failures and underachievement; I'm not.

A long term success is secured by the measures you take and the work you put in to get to the end result, not the end result. This post was intended for a satirical humor while mixing a bit of my opinion, which you clearly disagree and I have no problem with that. But I honestly don't think you should even be at the position of such judgment if you're incapable of absorbing different views.

These candidates need to find their own solutions to their problems, and it definitely isn't my responsibility, nor yours (regardless of how bloated your ego may be), to plan their rehabilitation program.

As for offering an opinion to how the team can improve, I think I have blatantly provided the angle to the solution.

[C.Schneider]

1. AV, sure he's made some inexplicable decisions. But all coaches do that. Like wtf was Babcock doing sitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the final minute of Game 7.

Sure AV's not a cheerleader type coach. He's a systems coach. And this system got to within 1 game of the Stanley Cup Finals. Something must be right. And no, don't buy the whole team carrying him deal. Not every team with talent can make it without a good system. For example, did you know AV has the players practicing a toe drag move to stay onside when getting pucks at the blue line. Result?

The little things, habits, etc the team did to win. AV has had a hand in them.

2. Roberto Luongo... I'm willing to give him a satisfactory overall performance. Yes, disappointing finals. But overall, satisfactory. Given that this is his first year with Rollie. His first year changing his style, and it hasn't even been a year, more like 7 months. Think about that, changing his style part way into a year, after years and years of playing differently. With an offseason to work out the kinks, maybe completely erase all his old habits.

That said, there's also another thing going against him. Every "good" goalie wins the big one has that stud D in front of him. We've seen Chara, Keith, Weber, and coincidentally, their goalies looked amazing. We've seen Niemi and the Sharks, and coincidentally, we completely exposed him. Where has Broduer been since Scott Stevens retired and Niedermayer left the Devils? Good stats for him during the regular season, but hasn't passed the 2nd round. That sound familiar to any other goalie?

But still, I do hope we see more of Schnieder. More real competition will be better. May the best one win, we'll be better for it.

3. Mason Raymond, yes disappointment offensively. Can't fault effort, he uses his speed forechecks well. No finish and no play making abilities though. One thing to consider, he did break his hand midseason. Maybe just a confidence, timing thing after that incident. Will he recover... I don't know. If only he wasn't rehabbing this summer and was able to do something to add to his skill set..

4. Christian Ehrhoff. He's only good when he has the offensive shot, and if Edler is playing at the top of his game. Otherwise, we saw the errorhoff San Jose called him. I'd think he overpriced himself out of Vancouver.

5. Sami Salo is a good vet presence still. I'd keep him cheap. Maybe a 1M with another 1M of bonuses, he qualifies as he's over 35. Just has to play enough and can still get good games out of him.

6. Mikhail Samuellson, he's still good vet presence. Tried to play through his bad back the latter half of the season + playoffs. He's also the guy that got the team to buy into the play whistle to whistle thing. He probably has use on the bottom 6, I'd like us to have someone that can give us that John Madden, or Mark Recchi experience.

Here's to looking forward to July 1st and seeing what Gillis has in store.

1. I have no problem with the system AV has brought to the team, as it has showed great success during the regular season. But how many times can you honestly say he out dueled his counterpart in the playoff?

It is evident that we have a good enough team to get to the playoffs, and what we need are pieces that will give us the extra boost during the playoff. AV has continuously proved to be a failure in the post season, and I don't buy for a second his status should be rejuvenated due to our amazing playoff run this year. It is obvious that we would have been knocked out in the second round, yet again, if it wasn't for a spectacular individual performance by Kesler.

Speaking of second round, if you want to talk about a successful systems coach, look no further than Trotz who provided a good fight, regardless of the tremendous skill disadvantage Nashville had to us.

2. I have admitted in my original post that Luongo is not a bad goalie as many make it seem to be. I even said he is one of the best in the business. But simply put, the Canucks are better off without Luongo than with Luongo.

We have a great young goaltender in Schneider, and according to the regular season, we have the most potent offense backed by a tremendous skilled blue line. Luongo's salary dump would help the cause for us attaining a top six forward and maintaining our blueline.

I do not believe Schneider is better than Luongo right now; I just believe there's more advantage to having Schneider over Luongo.

3. Raymond does many things well, and his speed alone brings many intangibles. But it isn't enough for him to secure a top 6 spot with our line up, and he clearly is the weakest link.

4. With Ehrhoff, he is more suited for the regular season than the playoff. I admit he has been our best defenseman for the past two regular seasons, but his rumored salary of 5M + can be used for another defenseman who can help us during the post season.

I don't doubt his skillset, but I do doubt his heart.

5. Sami Salo for 1M will be welcomed by anyone and everyone in the Canucks nation. But with the salary cap going up, Salo may be able to lure in higher contract offers from other teams desperate for a two way defender with veteran experience.

Everything depends on how much Salo will take to end his career with the Canucks, if he isn't retiring already.

6. Samuelsson is close to a Recchi, not John Madden; hence, he is suited for a top 6 role, not a bottom 6.

Especially for a team like the Canucks who utilizes the third line as a shutdown checking role, Samuelsson does not fit.

His veteran presence is nice, and his cup experience is priceless. But unless he shows exceptional chemistry and results with the Sedins, he just does not have the speed to compliment Vancouver's system.

[Vansicle]

Granted - of all the Teams the last decade - the Wings are right up there...but talking about the Canucks being a Dynasty when this is the first time since 1994 that we made it past the 2nd round and have yet (oh please let it be this year!) to even win a cup is....how do I say this....futile? Irrelevant? Arrogant? You get my drift...if the Canucks win 3 or 4 cups in a decade and make it to at least the conference finals in a couple of others, then I would consider them to be a "dynasty"....

You're saying the Canucks won't be a dynasty unless x, y, and z happen. OP is saying that they believe it will take a, b, and c to be good enough to make x, y, and z happen.

[skyfall]

I think coaching is the biggest one. When the Hawks lost Seabrook and John Scott gets dressed and they creamed us, that pretty much says it right there. The Hawks were gutted of talent plus tired as crap having to fight every night to make the playoffs and yet got us to game 7. We upgraded talent, went over the max salary cap thanks to Gillis and basically added a lot without subtracting and got blown out.

Also historically the team has been blown out a lot of times in the playoffs and had tons of injuries. At times I watch the Canucks and think even if we had team Canada's roster the way their playing is so inefficient that talent doesn't matter. I really thought talent could overcome bad coaching but it didn't. It took every edge we could get to beat the Hawks who were depleted as crap and that's a bad sign.