Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Tone it down doesn't mean 'attack the guy more'. Chill out for a bit, come back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niloc009 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This isn't a game. This is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 "I feel sorry for you"... you're not quoting Jebus there, are you? No, of course you're not, he would never say anything like that. I feel sorry for you, because your hypocrisy is so transparent. A typical, self-serving, run o' the mill Christian whose beliefs only change when reality slaps him in the face. I wonder if people realize that you have a gay daughter - that wouldn't have anything to do with you suddenly being so supporting of gays, mmm? Too bad when it comes to the rest of it, you're still the same breed of conservatives that ruined the US and threatens Canada. You know the type, proud of your bibles, supportive of the army, opposed to social services. Tell me that story of the liberal grasshopper again! And when AirCare goes away, it's a good thing because it cost YOU money, but smokers pollute your environment, huh? You feel sorry for me? That's a barrel of laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Tone it down guys. First and only warning - you should be used to this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seifer86 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I congratulate Heretic on his love for his daughter regardless of sexual orientation, for not allowing others who want to throw bricks or allowing religion to dictate the entirety, the complete reality of his life........after all, isn't this what anyone, regardless of religion or non-religion should aspire to? Non-judgmental love for a child, for others, acceptance, common respect, treating others as you would like to be treated yourself? Some in this thread may not think they need some damned ancient book to show them how to behave, that a belief in Christianity is all or nothing but that is simply not the case. It's more than obvious by the posts in this thread alone, that the lessons of common respect and acceptance of differences in others don't seem to have been found much in the life of some non-believers. Smart Christians, intelligent Christians, knowledgeable Christians are not sheep despite what a good number of non-believers (some of them in this thread) believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I liked everything you said in this post save for that one line. People shouldn't be congratulated for loving their children. Way to go for not casting down your own child! High five! People don't tell their parent that they're gay as a form of rebellion or disrespect. Many are terrified to come out to their parents, and the fact that some parents respond with disappointment, fear, and hate is disgusting. Parents should be the FIRST people a child can talk to about something of that nature. If someone came on these boards and said "my daughter is a redhead, but I love her despite the fact that she's a ginger", would you slap them on the back and say congratulations on not being an ignorant ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seifer86 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In the context of the discussion going on here (and in other religious threads that have come and gone on this board), that comment is not as redundant and facetious as it may seem. I am well aware of the bigger picture here. Perhaps if you'd been reading this back and forth between Heretic and ScorpioEgo as long as I have (years worth), you'd see that the comment isn't as completely worthy of your comment as it may appear at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Scorp, Scorp, Scorp........ Why is it that you refuse to allow anyone the right to evolve in their thinking and beliefs? You are a great believer in evolution, are you not? Or is that belief only tied to the progression of apes to modern man a'la Darwin? ev·o·lu·tion noun 1. any process of formation or growth; development 2. a product of such development; 3. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, andgenetic drift. 4. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions. 5.a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motionstoproduce a single action, as in a machine You have been very quick to judge others in any religion vs well, pretty much everything else debate yet despite your lobbying and perceived wish to change other's thinking, you only seem to jump all over them and accuse them of hypocrisy when they do.....change their thinking or belief. You can't have it both ways, my friend, as you only end up confirming what many believe about your posts in religion based topics..........that you participate only to hack and denigrate anyone who believes as a Christian regardless of how many concessions or admissions they may make regarding changes in their beliefs. The pendulum swings both ways and it is possible to be a Christian and not believe 100% in the literal written word of the Bible. To be a rational, educated Christian who understands that the Bible was written for uneducated people of the times and in many ways, was a tool to control the masses. The Bible also lays out many basic truths and lessons for living a good, productive and healthy life wherein we treat others with respect, kindness and common decency. You and other non-believers have stated many times that you don't need no damned ancient book and religion to teach you to be a better person. But when I look at the posts in this thread (and in years past, the God thread) it is only the non-Christians I see throwing stones, attacking a man's character and bringing his family into a debate on a bloody hockey board. It's beneath you, Scorp. I've always believed that you're much smarter than this. The Christian(s) in this debate have taken the high road, not resorted to name calling and have avoided stooping to the level of those who cannot seem to understand that the religious beliefs of those who believe in God that post here don't affect your life in any way, shape or form. Perhaps some lessons could be taken from this. Unfortunately, the hypocrisy I'm seeing in this thread is not coming from Christians, it's coming from the 'anything but religion' crowd. I congratulate Heretic on his love for his daughter regardless of sexual orientation, for not allowing others who want to throw bricks or allowing religion to dictate the entirety, the complete reality of his life........after all, isn't this what anyone, regardless of religion or non-religion should aspire to? Non-judgmental love for a child, for others, acceptance, common respect, treating others as you would like to be treated yourself? Some in this thread may not think they need some damned ancient book to show them how to behave, that a belief in Christianity is all or nothing but that is simply not the case. It's more than obvious by the posts in this thread alone, that the lessons of common respect and acceptance of differences in others don't seem to have been found much in the life of some non-believers. Smart Christians, intelligent Christians, knowledgeable Christians are not sheep despite what a good number of non-believers (some of them in this thread) believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No, I'm not a "great believer in evolution", I acknowledge its effect. I'm not a believer in gravity, either. Do you credit Bev Oda with growing as a person after she paid back tax payer's money for her extravagances? Attack a person's character? I didn't make up a single word in my post. "Wah wah, leave Heretic alone!" He's a grown man and this forum has an ignore function. I suggest you both use it if my posts touch a spot. Sure, we throw stones, but we don't have a holy book telling us to turn another cheek instead. You're not making a good case for why I'm a hypocrite and he's not, you're just making a case for why I'm a dick and he's a hypocrite. Well, I agree. Christianity is a pick your own adventure book, eh? Well I wonder what a billion and a half of Christians have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Doing the "job for us"? Who is "us"? I guess "us" never "twists" any part of the Bible for "their" needs do "they"? I feel so sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I am disappointed, Scorp. I expected much better, truly I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No, I'm not a "great believer in evolution", I acknowledge its effect. I'm not a believer in gravity, either. Do you credit Bev Oda with growing as a person after she paid back tax payer's money for her extravagances? Attack a person's character? I didn't make up a single word in my post. "Wah wah, leave Heretic alone!" He's a grown man and this forum has an ignore function. I suggest you both use it if my posts touch a spot. Sure, we throw stones, but we don't have a holy book telling us to turn another cheek instead. You're not making a good case for why I'm a hypocrite and he's not, you're just making a case for why I'm a dick and he's a hypocrite. Well, I agree. Christianity is a pick your own adventure book, eh? Well I wonder what a billion and a half of Christians have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well I hope you can find it in you to forgive me. I know Heretic will. Or not, I don't know if that's one of the chapters he believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLumme Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I am disappointed, Scorp. I expected much better, truly I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 If it's a battle of wits between you and Scorpio, you're essentially unarmed Bertuzzi Babe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think she made a pretty good case actually you just don't seem to want to acknowledge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Damn, you quoted the original post, now I have to put it back in! But yet you hammer away relentlessly anyway, and the perception is being given that you are trying to change other people beliefs and then won't acknowledge that someone may have changed their perceptions of some things. I've never thought of you as being the guy who keeps notches on his wall next to the computer whenever they best someone in a religious debate on some anonymous message board....... Have you never changed your thoughts or beliefs about something, Scorp? I'm sure you have. And would you want it constantly thrown back in your face that you used to believe those things? Have you not changed, grown past the times you believed in/of something that has since been changed? Do you expect and accept that the person you used to be then should be repeatedly brought up, thrown in your face, rubbed in repeatedly and as often as possible? Is that fair? Is it right? Unfortunately it just shows something about character........or lack thereof. And in your first paragraph alone, you go for the personal shot against Heretic instead of sticking to the topic at hand. I know an apology for that, and the personal comments about character will not be coming.....I believe your issue with Heretic is a personal one as is evidenced by your many nasty posts with him over the years.......but straying from the discussion at hand and going after his family, his character and his personal life is beneath you. I don't know about you, but I've known for a hell of a lot longer than a couple of months that Heretic has a gay family member. And what I see, is a father's love for his child trumping his belief in oddly translated, fundamental scriptures..........just as it should be. Why is that wrong? Why is it hypocrisy? Surely, (yes, I called you Shirley ) growth is possible with Christians too, you know. Why can't you just let it go at that? Any number of people can read any book and you will come up with a myriad of different interpretations of that one book. That is what has happened with the Bible. It's how old? Been translated how many times? But there are some essential truths in it that have not changed regardless of how many times it's been translated. Or by whom. You take my comment about intelligent, knowledgeable Christians and attempt to trivialize it. People, Christians and non-Christians alike, have spent their whole lives studying the bible and Christianity, people who have degrees in such fields, critical thinkers. And they all agree that there are some basic truths in the Bible. Even the Christian scholars in the field acknowledge that there is much in the Bible that is contradictory, foolish, and given the context of the times it was written, is about control of an uneducated populace who relied on their church leaders to not lead them astray but instead to keep them on a righteous, controllable path. (Until Jesus showed up, that is ) The benefit of 2000 and some odd years of hindsight makes our vision regarding this subject 20/20. What does it matter to you if Heretic or any other Christan on this board chooses to believe what they do? It's a personal choice, you know, those personal choices you have the right to make also. Which you have. What does it matter if it's growth in one's belief system or their personal life, what does it really matter to you? Are you afraid some fundamentalist 'Christian' group will show up on your front lawn and juggle rattle snakes? Some bible thumping Christian is going to tie you to a chair and recite all the 'begats' from Exodus at you for the next 48 hours? That some Christian is going to sneak into your house and put a snore-rigged device under your pillow to turn on and send you subliminal Christian brainwashing messages while you sleep? What? Hey, isn't it nice outside? Go for a walk, have a cup of coffee........write your next response to me in your head while you smell the roses! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 But yet you hammer away relentlessly anyway, and the perception is being given that you are trying to change other people beliefs and then won't acknowledge that someone may have changed their perceptions of some things. I've never thought of you as being the guy who keeps notches on his wall next to the computer whenever they best someone in a religious debate on some anonymous message board....... Have you never changed your thoughts or beliefs about something, Scorp? I'm sure you have. And would you want it constantly thrown back in your face that you used to believe those things? Have you not changed, grown past the times you believed in/of something that has since been changed? Do you expect and accept that the person you used to be then should be repeatedly brought up, thrown in your face, rubbed in repeatedly and as often as possible? Is that fair? Is it right? Unfortunately it just shows something about character........or lack thereof. And in your first paragraph alone, you go for the personal shot against Heretic instead of sticking to the topic at hand. I know an apology for that, and the personal comments about character will not be coming.....I believe your issue with Heretic is a personal one as is evidenced by your many nasty posts with him over the years.......but straying from the discussion at hand and going after his family, his character and his personal life is beneath you. I don't know about you, but I've known for a hell of a lot longer than a couple of months that Heretic has a gay family member. And what I see, is a father's love for his child trumping his belief in oddly translated, fundamental scriptures..........just as it should be. Why is that wrong? Why is it hypocrisy? Surely, (yes, I called you Shirley ) growth is possible with Christians too, you know. Why can't you just let it go at that? Any number of people can read any book and you will come up with a myriad of different interpretations of that one book. That is what has happened with the Bible. It's how old? Been translated how many times? But there are some essential truths in it that have not changed regardless of how many times it's been translated. Or by whom. You take my comment about intelligent, knowledgeable Christians and attempt to trivialize it. People, Christians and non-Christians alike, have spent their whole lives studying the bible and Christianity, people who have degrees in such fields, critical thinkers. And they all agree that there are some basic truths in the Bible. Even the Christian scholars in the field acknowledge that there is much in the Bible that is contradictory, foolish, and given the context of the times it was written, is about control of an uneducated populace who relied on their church leaders to not lead them astray but instead to keep them on a righteous, controllable path. (Until Jesus showed up, that is ) The benefit of 2000 and some odd years of hindsight makes our vision regarding this subject 20/20. What does it matter to you if Heretic or any other Christan on this board chooses to believe what they do? It's a personal choice, you know, those personal choices you have the right to make also. Which you have. What does it matter if it's growth in one's belief system or their personal life, what does it really matter to you? Are you afraid some fundamentalist 'Christian' group will show up on your front lawn and juggle rattle snakes? Some bible thumping Christian is going to tie you to a chair and recite all the 'begats' from Exodus at you for the next 48 hours? That some Christian is going to sneak into your house and put a snore-rigged device under your pillow to turn on and send you subliminal Christian brainwashing messages while you sleep? What? Hey, isn't it nice outside? Go for a walk, have a cup of coffee........write your next response to me in your head while you smell the roses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 First off, grand sweeping statements, basically saying, "if you don't believe/disbelieve exactly what I do, you're an idiot", are the essence of ignorance. Secondly, since the topic directly references the bible, there's no reason to beat around the bush. The Bible is very much against the practice of homosexuality. Just as it is against sex-before-marriage, drunkenness, use of idols, etc., etc. It's right there in black-and-white - arguing against that is a dead-end street. How does the bible indicate Christians react to those who practice these things? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 mentions many of them, but then in verse 11 it states "that is what some of you were". The Christians in the bible didn't hate/attack people that didn't live according to Christianity. They told people about "the good news", why it was beneficial to change, and then let them choose what to do with their lives. Some listened, but most rejected it and continued doing things differently. The bible is quite clear on most things. It doesn't need fanciful "interpretations" to transform and twist it into whatever fits what you want to do (exactly what was foretold at 2 Timothy 4:3-4). If you don't want to live by what it says, then don't. And if you do, then do - just don't hate or look down on others that chose differently. Denying someone their freedom of choice is as unchristian as anything else, and no one likes a hypocrite. So why would anyone voluntary change their lives to conform to a 2,000 year-old book? Personally, I am a Christian, and try to live my life by what's in the bible. I do this because I see the benefits firsthand - I am happier and more fulfilled this way. I am healthier, more productive, and kinder to others. I have found truly kind, caring, and loving friends who I can completely trust. I also don't sit around pondering the questions many have raised in this thread ("Why does God allow cancer/earthquakes/etc."), because I have found real, fulfilling answers to these in the bible. So to put it simply, I do it because it works. But it's not just me - I have also seen many others' lives improve greatly by studying the bible and adopting the Christian lifestyle. Not only are their own lives better, but they become better family members and neighbours too, so others have benefited as well. On the flip-side I have also known others who once lived by the bible decide to reject it, sometimes with terrible consequences (broken families, estranged children, drug addiction, prison, dying from AIDS...). Both of these groups have included homosexuals. There are real benefits and real answers to be found in the bible, no matter what your current lifestyle or beliefs. If you have looked into the bible (note: not religion, just the bible) and disagree, then fine. If you don't even care to look, that's fine too. It's completely up to you, as it was to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Being the usual voice of peace, acceptance and reason that I naturally am.....i'd like to just say/add this if I can, for whatever it's worth. *ahem* Once I was blind...but now I see. Once you were blind, but perhaps now you see. In perhaps one small area of his perception of homosexuality, gay marriage, gay-dom, same-sexuality, there were some who for whatever brainwashed dogmatic reason, were also blind or oblivious until they were blind-sided by something that hit home and resonated and forced them to see with a perhaps evolved sense of acceptance, sight, perception, understanding, etc. Point being, and again, for whatever it's worth to whom-so-ever chooses to heed my words without taking umbrage, people, even the most strident and looniest of cracker eaters can change when something inside them, their brains, their understanding, their 'hearts', their loved ones, their world around them changes. Some of us.....well, we choose to fight the fight against the ignorant whenever and wherever we are able to. Lord Vishnu knows that by Odin's beard, i've fought a'plenty myself. The one thing I tried to do when the opportunity arose, which wasn't often round these parts, was to give the occasional terrorist fist bump to those who stepped out of their comfort zone to acknowledge a new perspective or view on something they long believed or railed against, a page, a thread, or some time previously. It should be ok to have epiphanies. It should also be ok to acknowledge and give a fella a pat on the back, even if briefly or for a one narrow specific change of heart, tune, or perception. We should celebrate growth.....before we go back to the trenches.....if indeed that's where you end back up. If someone has changed their minds on homosexuality or homosexuals, or their civil rights, even in the face of their religious dogmatic beliefs, church teachings and peer pressure not to....then I say well done, and hope that particular opening in their cemented and demented religious wall of nonsense allows them, when they're ready, to take another step forward in accepting homosexuals, or perhaps remove another brick down the road in order to see them not as something to be despised or felt sorry for, but as equal to themselves, even in their sexual preferential differences. No need to mock or deride those who have come to the same conclusion I have. I'm just glad that someone or anyone has arrived there as well. It took me a little while to get here, I shamefully but truthfully admit, and i recognize that it may take others longer or shorter periods of time perhaps to as well. The most important part, is that they get here and come to see 'the light'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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