DarthNinja Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 After seeing what Palestinians have to deal with, I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I may have religious bias (just as you have irreligious bias), however; there is nothing that clouds one's cognitive thinking more than emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Whatever. I'm just glad I'm not gullible enough to allow a misogynistic, hate-mongering religious text to brainwash me and tell me what I can and can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 There's more than one? The one I posted earlier ITT. http://www.loonwatch...tes-sam-harris/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Take your time. And a have a good yard work. See, you've said that, and you've linked a video to Sam Harris saying that. Just because you say it, or Sam Harris says it, doesn't make it true. And that's for certain. We would like to see the proof of why you think Islam is inherently non-peaceful and violent - not who agrees with it. **To be more clear, what do you think the fundamentals of Islam mean? As for blaming the people that carry out such acts in the name of Islam, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's not because I say it or someone else says it, it's because it's there, in the 'holy' texts' of your religion. Eye for an eye, in not a proclamation of peace. Threatening you with death here on earth and eternal hell-fire afterwards, for losing your faith, or questioning it, or whatever one does as a 'renegade' does not ring with the sound of 'peace'. You can justify it and do the mental gymnastics if you want to but it's quite obvious that Islam promotes violence, even if it's retaliatory violence. Hell, even the NHL hands out retaliation penalties, because even they understand that violence even in retaliation and retribution isn't 'right'.....and how it's peaceful or 'holy' is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Think about it. You're part of the conspiracy and you don't even know it.....OR DO YOU????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Islam is a religion of justice that promotes truth and justice. It is a religion that can be peaceful and but it is by no means a pacifist religion. Absolutely, when the Islamic society is faced with threats or violence, the society is permitted to defend itself just like any reasonable society would. How foolish would it be to proclaim peace when facing threats and attacks? Nobody in their right mind, religious or not, would take such course of action. As for an eye for an eye... "The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. Verily, He likes not the oppressors." (Qur'an 42:40) Forgiving and overlooking is a recurring theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yeah...unless they're "infidels" right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 When the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) conquered Makkah after suffering severe persecution, brutal violence and warfare by the idolaters and being forced out of his home and land, he granted amnesty to all people except for a few individuals. Alslo, when the Qur'an mentions overlooking and forgiving there are verses that specifically deal with disbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 In all seriousness it is true; that is to have the world unified under Islam, and to have every country subject to their law is a fairly reccurent theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks since 77 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Quote:Slaytanic Wehrmacht, on 28 July 2012 - 08:45 AM, said: I'm a member of American Atheists, and for some half-wit to sit there, hide behind a keyboard, and accuse the people I PERSONALLY know are great American citizens who are very active in their communities and very docile until provoked or enticed by ignorant and downright stupid people with agendas like that guy does piss me off. Painting all of us as savages who belong to a "cult" essentially whose sole tenet is "hatred for those who believe in god" is not only EXTREMELY insulting, it's overtly uninformed. Here's a nice little interesting tidbit you and a lot of others conveniently don't care to remember about us...we don't only reject the existence of the Christian god...we reject the existence of ALL deities...it's just the Christians are the only ones who get their panties in a bunch about it. Sounds and looks like you have your own little church going. A little rabid also like a fundamentalist preacher. As a (I hate to say this) fellow athiest, I find you every bit as misinformed and arrogant as the extremists of the religions that you abhorr. Riding on the coat tails of others and rude behavior mark you as much a fanatic as any religions you've posted about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Quote:Slaytanic Wehrmacht, on 28 July 2012 - 08:45 AM, said: I'm a member of American Atheists, and for some half-wit to sit there, hide behind a keyboard, and accuse the people I PERSONALLY know are great American citizens who are very active in their communities and very docile until provoked or enticed by ignorant and downright stupid people with agendas like that guy does piss me off. Painting all of us as savages who belong to a "cult" essentially whose sole tenet is "hatred for those who believe in god" is not only EXTREMELY insulting, it's overtly uninformed. Here's a nice little interesting tidbit you and a lot of others conveniently don't care to remember about us...we don't only reject the existence of the Christian god...we reject the existence of ALL deities...it's just the Christians are the only ones who get their panties in a bunch about it. Sounds and looks like you have your own little church going. A little rabid also like a fundamentalist preacher. As a (I hate to say this) fellow athiest, I find you every bit as misinformed and arrogant as the extremists of the religions that you abhorr. Riding on the coat tails of others and rude behavior mark you as much a fanatic as any religions you've posted about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I suppose will agree to disagree on Sam Harris, however; many people feel the same way, including atheists. Show me where he is critical of Zionism and makes mention of the history of Zionist terrorism. And again, instead he sources and quotes from the most rabid of Zionists to present his own view (i.e. Dershowitz). His outlook on almost every political front he discusses is no different than the Zionist propaganda we hear from Tel Aviv. A rout for Sam? I think you mean a route for Sam because he would be running for the exit. And with regard to a 'global civil society' and 'regime of international law'...these sound precisely like George Bush's words...all nice and sugar coated as usual. If 'Islam took over the world' it would bring justice to the world, not injustice, oppression and brutality like those conspiring to do so today...as opposed to the aspirations of the bosses of criminal politicians' and bankers' I have yet to see Sam Harris produce a single piece of Islamic evidence for actions that he claims are central to Islam such as suicide bombings, while I have provided ample evidence to the contrary. But it is rather ironic...he claims 'settlers' in Palestine will be a direct cause of a war between Islam and the West, yet he justifies the existence of a religious based nation that exists solely as a result of terrorism land grabbing in the first place. I guess it comes back to that both sides of the mouth thing (one of them clearly Zionistic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm not a huge fan of the three New Atheism figureheads. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris have too blunt and simplistic an approach to discussing religion for my liking, and they rely too much on emotional arguments. However, I've never gotten the impression that Harris is a Zionist, and Darthninja's arguments in support of that charge seem very lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm not a huge fan of the three New Atheism figureheads. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris have too blunt and simplistic an approach to discussing religion for my liking, and they rely too much on emotional arguments. However, I've never gotten the impression that Harris is a Zionist, and Darthninja's arguments in support of that charge seem very lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I don't know what there is to agree to disagree about. You clearly made an assertion that Harris was in line with the Jewish Zionists of Israel and in their pockets and supported them....and I gave you the man's words directly from himself which unequivocally makes it clear to see that he sees Judaism as divisive and the literalism in which it's taken as ridiculous and that the Zionist expansion of settlements, by way of the settlers grabbing land and building new settlements as a primary cause or reason for the fact that there isn't peace in the Middle East. Are you so blinded from his critique of your religion that you can't see that he's obviously not pro-Zionist? You can continue to think so if you want, but it makes you seem willfully ignorant when presented with the man's own words in context to your charge which is one that many people who haven't read his books or essays are just as guilty of erroneously making. I won't bother with the George Bush comment, because it is a complete left-field tangent. Lastly, again, as I said , if I cite something from OBL or KSM does that make me automatically a supporter of their ideologies? If you cite a Christian philosopher against Sam Harris, does that make you a Christian supporter, or a Christian? What you're and the other guy whose link I read are trying to insinuate with the quoting of Dershowitz, is a relationship between his ideologies and Sam's, simply for the citation or sourcing of something that was said. It's a ridiculous connection, as i've demonstrated above. Show me the context of that quote....and i don't mean the little quote from the site that S19 linked me to...I mean the full context of what Harris was talking about when he sourced Dershowitz. Have you read it? Can you say you know the full context? Quote me that, and we'll take it from there. Sam Harris in no more a Zionist sympathizer than he is a Palestinian or Islamic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Funny Sharp, you insistingly hold this view, yet I did not hear him once use the term Zionist or Zionism...except to imply in his book that Zionist territorial ambitions are a product 'bin Laden's imagination' (you see what he did there). And you are simply turning a blind eye towards Sam Harris just like Sam Harris turns a blind eye towards Zionism and Zionist terror and atrocities (at best), instead using ambiguous terms like 'settlers'. And since you mention Judaism, Judaism and Zionism are not one and the same and true Judaism is staunchly opposed to Zionism, which you do not seem to be cognizant of. As for his quoting Dershowitz, Dershowitz is just one of the rabid Zionists he connects with that makes him extremely suspect, and yes I am aware of the quote and the context and it is absolutely nonsensical, regardless whether or not Sam Harris begins his diatribe with 'truth is..." with respect to Dershowitz' view (which is evidently his own as well). So if you sourced bin Laden, empathized with or backed his views and ideals and began with 'truth is' as well as incessantly repeated his rhetoric while turning a blind eye to his atrocities, then yes, it would absolutely make you equally suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm not a huge fan of the three New Atheism figureheads. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris have too blunt and simplistic an approach to discussing religion for my liking, and they rely too much on emotional arguments. However, I've never gotten the impression that Harris is a Zionist, and Darthninja's arguments in support of that charge seem very lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Wasn't Zion the only city left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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