What makes people so confident in Schneider, as our number 1?

[smurf47]

My point is that you implied Luo has more meltdowns than the average goalie, and therefore he must be replaced. But, unless you can prove he has more than other goalies, you are unreasonable in judgement of Luo. And you are unreasonable in your expectation that any goalie we have won't have meltdowns.

I did not take stabs at Cory, I pointed out facts. They're not stabs just because they don't play into your childish fantasy version of him that never makes a mistake or has an off day. It's not an insult to him to point out the fact that he is human and has bad games or that he too is at the mercy of his team to help him play well.

Stop with the "you're not really a Cory fan" fan-ier than thou crap. If anything, it's you who isn't truly a fan of Cory because you don't want to see him for what he actually is. You don't want to see all of his downsides. You think it's an insult just to admit he even has downsides (despite the fact that every single human being ever has them). That's not being a fan. That's just indulging in silly hero worship.

[poetica]

Sorry. no where have I seen that people think Cory a goalie God..just that he is better than Lou and hopefully gives us more consistant goal tending going forward than Lou. All practical assessments tend to support that idea.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

I'm only responding.

Poetica is repeating the same argument over and over again (with 16 paragraph replys) and taking repeated stabs at Cory when nobody is even talking about Cory. At the same time saying how he's a Cory fan. If you want to bash Cory fine but don't do it as your claiming to be a fan. I understand that Lou has done great things here but his days are over, I don't get people that slander our new goalie repeatedly just because he's not Lou? Poetica gets me more then most because he slanders Cory more then most (find me a topic about goalies he hasn't) but in a covert way. I'm just pointing out its time to get along little doggie.

[poetica]

once again you make insinuations that people believe Cory is faultless, no where have I seen that written, so , please show me the quotes ! The point is with better SP and GAA, Cory gives us a better chance in each and every game. Its a numbers game, based on percentages and stats come in to play. Foe example, a team that wins more offensive zone faceoffs, increases their opportunity to win and thus a goalie with much better stats also gives his team a better chance. Cory does that for the Canucks, nothing more. But to speculate that people have childish fantasies based on your evaluation is condescending and immature.

[poetica]

I'm only responding.

Poetica is repeating the same argument over and over again (with 16 paragraph replys) and taking repeated stabs at Cory when nobody is even talking about Cory. At the same time saying how he's a Cory fan. If you want to bash Cory fine but don't do it as your claiming to be a fan. I understand that Lou has done great things here but his days are over, I don't get people that slander our new goalie repeatedly just because he's not Lou? Poetica gets me more then most because he slanders Cory more then most (find me a topic about goalies he hasn't) but in a covert way. I'm just pointing out its time to get along little doggie.

[Nino]

Yep. "Only responding" about covers it. (And btw, I'm a she, not a he.)

"No one's even talking about Cory"? Dude, the thread we're in right now is titled, "What makes people so confident in Schneider, as our number 1?"

Please, point to where my bad posts touched your sensitive feelings. Where exactly did I bash Cory in any way? Where did I say he sucks? Where did I say he's not a good goalie? Where did I say he doesn't deserve a chance or will not do well for us here? Where did I say anything other than people should be realistic in their expectations so that we don't turn on him like so many have on Luo?

I get you're scared off by all of those informed and fully formed thoughts organized into paragraphs, so I'll put my point into sentences maybe you can follow:

Luo is good.

Cory is good too.

Luo being good does not mean Cory is bad.

Cory being good does not mean Luo is bad.

Not being perfect does not mean either is bad.

Got it now?

[poetica]

Your covert as can be, you may not come out and say directly that you think he sucks but you find all the stats you can to try and make the pint but at the same time say "I support both goalies just look at my sig". I repeat what's the point Lou wants out management wants him out why do you feel the need to continue with your repeated covert slandering. Just accept that it's a changing of the gard, it has nothing to do with Lou's contract or how well Lou can play when he's on his game. Nor dose it have anything to do with Cory letting in 5 goals in a game (what goalie hasn't) just get over it.

[Nino]

Can't offer a single example illustrate my "covert" meaning? Shocking.

I mean, have you even tried to think through the logic of your theory? Apparently, your theory is that I think Luo is good. I've said Cory is good too, but you know I didn't mean it because, in addition to mentioning the ways Cory's stats are better than Luo's, I've also pointed out certain stats that show Cory is very similar to Luo. And, obviously, in doing so I am (covertly!) implying that Cory sucks if he's in any way like Luo, who I don't think sucks. Yeah, that makes sense.

Dude, I'm not being covert. You're just reading my messages through your Luo hatred filter and thinking that by me saying anything other than "Cory's better. Always has been. Always will be. End of story, regardless of context or facts." that I must be insulting him. That baggage is yours, not mine.

I really shouldn't be surprised that you keep missing my point when you apparently keep forgetting your own. How else can you explain you being confused that my replies have addressed the very issues your own posts brought up, like Luo's level of play and the comparative propensity for "meltdowns" between Cory and Luo? (I mean, really? "What goalie hasn't" was MY point! Only I applied it in defense of both Luo and Cory, not just one of them.) You are just either too obtuse or too stubborn to ever allow yourself to understand my point.

Cory is good. He doesn't have to be better. He may be. We'll see. But he doesn't have to be. He just has to be good. Good is his own accomplishment. Better, by definition, is only half his accomplishment and half someone else's failure. How funny those who think they are his true fans don't see that he deserves better than that.

Since you obviously find my posts so offensive, feel free to take your own advice and just get over it.

[lowest common denominator]

Sorry to interupt your little lover's quarrel here but I'm not confident in Cory over Lu at all. I feel that Schneider has more potential for fading off into obscurity after a few mediocre seasons than becoming an all star.

I have been known to bash Lu a wee bit but that's only cuz he hurt me so much. I'm sorry Lu, come back home, we'll make it better.

[poetica]

Walk in all the circles you want, recite the same BS (being silly) all you want but in the end your back at square one. If your trying to justify Lou's poor play by showing Cory's numbers when he was coming in cold after an injury then you are trying to slander him. Go ahead type another 10 paragraphs of meaningless dribble. I've apologized in the past for calling you a Lou homer when you claimed to be a fan of both goalies but I'm just letting you know I'm on to you and covert ways, you don't have to like it just spare me your meaningless dribble.

[Nino]

Sorry to interupt your little lover's quarrel here but I'm not confident in Cory over Lu at all. I feel that Schneider has more potential for fading off into obscurity after a few mediocre seasons than becoming an all star.

I have been known to bash Lu a wee bit but that's only cuz he hurt me so much. I'm sorry Lu, come back home, we'll make it better.

[Nino]

Okay, Nino. I'll consider myself on notice.

[Mustapha]

Cory is playing better then Lou.

Lou himself wants out.

Canucks management has lost confidence in Lou's playoff abilities.

Cory signed a starters goalie contract with us.

[smurf47]

Have you really not seen the way people are already turning on Cory because he's failed to meet their impossibly high standards? I'm obviously not the only one hearing the over inflation. Look at threads like the one titled /topic/344444-5chneider-wasnt-the-one-man-army-he-was-made-out-to-be/">5chneider wasn't the one-man army he was made out to be in which the OP said, "I was told time and time again that the one-man army, 5chneiderman would single handedly win us every game when he is in net." Luckily there were lots of voices of reason in response, but that's just one of the many posts and threads in which Cory has been touted as being "better" than Luo when that's not been proven in any sustainable way.

Cory's never played a full season. Even this year when he was the starter he actually had fewer starts than he did last year due to the shortened schedule (and got fewer wins too.) We can hope, but we don't know for sure what he can (or more importantly, will) do over a full season. He may actually be better than Luo, and that would be awesome! But, if it turns out that he's only just as good but younger we should be ecstatic instead of saying he's a complete failure because he's not better than the best goalie this franchise has ever had. That's what I mean. Just saying he's "better" sets up an expectation that he may not be able to meet and that's unfair. He's good on his own and has advantages and disadvantages on his own that have nothing to do with Luo. His success shouldn't be measured against Luo anymore than Luo's should be measured against Cory.

And you are the one making statements of fact without backing them up. Yes, Cory's SV% and GAA are better than Luo's in the last 2 years but you're forgetting to take into account any number of factors and context (e.g. quality of D support, quality of scoring chances, etc.) Sad though it is, better stats do not necessarily equate a better chance at winning because it's not just the goalie who decides that. One can never underestimate the role the team plays. Remember a crappy bad angle shot save counts the same as a showstopping, game saving point blank save. Stats may not outright lie, but they don't tell the whole truth either.

As the starter last year Luo had 54 starts and got 31 wins, or 57.4%. (He won 50% of his starts this year as backup.) As the starter this year, Cory had 30 starts and got 17 wins, or 56.7%. He did significantly better the previous year as a backup (with an amazing 71.4% win rate), but I wouldn't expect to see Cory numbers return to last year's rate (at least not without a significant improvement in the team.) Likewise, his SV% and GAA were both significantly better last year. It's more difficult to be the starter and to maintain numbers over the full season, so anyone expecting that he would return to those numbers will likely be disappointed. With the same level of scoring as we have seen over the last few years, I would fully expect his starting win % to remain around the same as Luo's last year and Cory's this year.

Hopefully this season is an indication of the kind of player Cory can be. If it is, we should be very happy, but that doesn't mean he gives the team a better chance to win than Luo. Cory's numbers this year are were pretty much dead on to Luo's in 2010/11. So, his first year as a starter was equal to Luo's stats just 2 years ago. (And don't forget, Luo was still 12th on the SV% leaders list last year.) That means he may not be so much better as the starter, but that's okay. 2010/11 was a pretty good year, despite the disappointing end, so if Cory ends up being "only" as good as Luo was then, that's not a failure. That's a reason to thank our lucky stars!

[Ghostsof1915]

Trade Luongo and Schneider, and go with Lack.

Problem solved.

[smurf47]

Sorry to interupt your little lover's quarrel here but I'm not confident in Cory over Lu at all. I feel that Schneider has more potential for fading off into obscurity after a few mediocre seasons than becoming an all star.

I have been known to bash Lu a wee bit but that's only cuz he hurt me so much. I'm sorry Lu, come back home, we'll make it better.

[poetica]

You sir do everything in your power to inflate Lou. Both goalies played behinf the same offense and defense with Cory about 1/3 GPG better than Lou. Try the smoke and mirrors with someone else because your excuses are without substance. A goalie who gives up fewer GAA than another most definitely gives their team a better chance to win. Cory was significantly better in both SP and GAA so call a spade a spade than trying to baffle us with your amateur bull. PS how many years did you play goal?

[lowest common denominator]

Ok...tell us why, in your expert opinion, Schneider has more potential of fading off into obscurity. This should make for a good laugh.

[smurf47]

I'm not a sir. And I never played goal.

I defend Luo because he's a good goalie who's impressive career is earning him a spot in the record books and has already earned his spot in this franchise's record book. Whether or not he stays or goes does not change that. And showing a little respect for that does not disrespect anyone else.

Logic is not smoke and mirrors, even when you don't like it. Ignoring someone else's point doesn't make them less correct. Ignoring facts just because they don't fit your script doesn't make you right. It just illustrates that your opinions aren't based on fact at all.

You only think I'm making "excuses" because you think Luo needs excuses. Why? Because it doesn't matter to you if he's still a good goalie, he should be better.

You think facts that don't paint Cory as being so much better than Luo are "attempts to baffle" because you only want to hear that Cory will be better than the best goalie in franchise history. You view anything less as failure and that's the real reason you think I'm being insulting by pointing out facts like Cory's SV% and GAA this year being equal to Luo's from 2 years ago, or that Cory's win % this year was similar to Luo's from last year, or that both goalies had 3+ goals against games in similar percentages this year. It doesn't mater that saying he is matching the best goalie in franchise history is far from an insult, because you only want to hear that he will be better.

So save this "I told you so" for a not so distant future: When Luo is not here to hate on, you and your ilk will turn on Cory just like you did on Luo because your support is fickle and based on wishes rather than facts. Cory will have the occasional bad game and they will start to add up, just like they did with Luo (and every other starter.) He will suffer when his team doesn't play well and more often than not he will fail to single-handed win a team sport, just like Luo (and every other goalie.) It won't matter that Cory's a good goalie because at the first sign that he's not better than whatever outside standard you're comparing him to that day, you will declare that he sucks, just like you did with Luo. And then you'll move on to the next better goalie, just like you did with Cory. And you will wrong be to disrespect Cory like that, just like you are wrong to disrespect Luo.

[smurf47]

I'm no expert but CS is still unproven in my books. He's going on 28 and has barely played a hundred games, let alone playing as a bonafied #1. He's shown that he's not exceptional and prone to meltdowns also. And what's up with the on ice anxiety issues???

Also, as a canuck, he won't be playing behind a Grade A team like Luongo had. Unless gillis has some rabbits in that hat of his.

CS has shown potential to be good, like countless other goalies before him who have faded off in a hurry.

People want to believe so badly that we can have a goalie come through the system and eclipse the best goalie the canucks have ever had but I'm not buying it. Could be a long decade for nux fans.

+ He's in Van, haven't you heard about the bad juju with vancity goalies??

Schneider actuallyhas trade value, unlike Luongo. But now, Lu wants the hell outta here and I don't blame him, this crapshow has gone on for far to long. MG is really crappin the bed here if you ask me. It's getting to the point where you might say disgraceful.