(Article)NHL goalie rankings: Is Luongo still elite?

[DeNiro]

...or we can pin all of our hopes and expectations on one guy and then throw ourselves to the ground and have a hissy fit every time he doesn't live up to the unrealistic expectations, as we have with our goalies for the past 40+ years. It's been working well for us so far.

Too much truth for this site to handle.

[King Heffy]

The the D are just as soft and mentally weak if they get deflated that easily.

If they're worried about our goalie letting in softies, how about they actually block some shots then? I've never seen a D core be so allergic to blocking shots as ours. And when they actually do block shots, they usually miss and just get in the way of Lu.

Say what you want about Ballard, but at least he knew how to block shots.

And I could say the same thing in reverse. It's hard to play goal when you know you're D is gonna screen you, stand around not covering their checks, not block any shots for you, and let numerous odd man rushes come your way. That's alot of pressure for a goalie to know he's gonna pretty much have to be the star every game.

What I'm saying is the D have to at least try to force the opponents to shoot from bad areas. If half those weak shots go in, that's a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Fact is, Luongo is a complete liability in the playoffs unless he learns how to consistently stop routine shots.

[Riviera82]

Really? A goalie with a .916 playoff SV% is dreadful? He had a .915 this year and if stats reflected only his play, it would be much higher. He also had a .914 in 10/11.

Despite the hyperbole so common to this Chicken Little forum, Luo's allowed 3 or fewer goals in 75% of his playoff games. (And he allowed 3 or fewer goals in 71% of his games in 10/11.) We've also won 52% of the playoff games he's started despite the fact that we've only scored 2 or fewer goals in 54% of our playoff games during Luo's time here. (If you're interested, you can read a short comparison with other teams in a previous post of mine.)

If you think that means he doesn't play like he belongs in the NHL "more than half the time" you need a reality check!

A .916 Sv% isn't dreadful, it's not bad in the regular season and nothing to write home about in the playoffs.

Since you appear to enjoy stats as well, here are the numbers from the 5 (half of the) playoff series' in which Luongo looked like he didn't quite belong.

2009 vs. Chicago

5.98 GP

3.51 GAA, .879 Sv%

2010 vs. LA

5.82 GP

2.92 GAA, .893 Sv%

2010 vs. Chicago

5.96 GP

3.52 GAA, .896 Sv%

2011 vs. Chicago

5.71 GP

2.98 GAA, .902 Sv%

2011 vs. Boston

5.86 GP

3.41 GAA, .891 Sv%

Scoring has definitely been an issue for a while now, but when a team's highly paid elite goaltender puts up stats like these with such frequency, your'e pretty much hooped. Although we did somehow manage to win two of the above series.

[DeNiro]

What I'm saying is the D have to at least try to force the opponents to shoot from bad areas. If half those weak shots go in, that's a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Fact is, Luongo is a complete liability in the playoffs unless he learns how to consistently stop routine shots.

You're pretending he lets in routine shots all the time, which is far from the truth. And I would say his spectacular saves that should be goals because of breakdowns, outnumber the soft goals.

Again, the problem is people overrate our D and fail to recognize that they're pretty bad in their own zone. Luongo's the only thing that keeps us in some of those games most of the time. And anyone that thinks that if we plug in a different goalie and we'll have different results is kidding themselves.

Until our D tightens the f up, and starts playing with some "stiffness" in our own zone, we could plug Hasek in his prime in there and it wouldn't make a difference.

[5Fivehole0]

A .916 Sv% isn't dreadful, it's not bad in the regular season and nothing to write home about in the playoffs.

Since you appear to enjoy stats as well, here are the numbers from the 5 (half of the) playoff series' in which Luongo looked like he didn't quite belong.

2009 vs. Chicago

5.98 GP

3.51 GAA, .879 Sv%

2010 vs. LA

5.82 GP

2.92 GAA, .893 Sv%

2010 vs. Chicago

5.96 GP

3.52 GAA, .896 Sv%

2011 vs. Chicago

5.71 GP

2.98 GAA, .902 Sv%

2011 vs. Boston

5.86 GP

3.41 GAA, .891 Sv%

Scoring has definitely been an issue for a while now, but when a team's highly paid elite goaltender puts up stats like these with such frequency, your'e pretty much hooped. Although we did somehow manage to win two of the above series.

You post those stats all the time.. Everyone knows Lu has problems against Chicago.

Now go find the stats where Lu shined, You can hand pick series all day to make anyone look bad

[King Heffy]

You post those stats all the time.. Everyone knows Lu has problems against Chicago.

Now go find the stats where Lu shined, You can hand pick series all day to make anyone look bad

But when that's over half the series in that timespan, there's a problem. You can't win with a goalie that prone to playing that badly.

[hudson bay rules]

You post those stats all the time.. Everyone knows Lu has problems against Chicago.

Now go find the stats where Lu shined, You can hand pick series all day to make anyone look bad

Coming from you? Stats freak. Talk about a MasterCard commercial gone wrong..

[Riviera82]

You post those stats all the time.. Everyone knows Lu has problems against Chicago.

Now go find the stats where Lu shined, You can hand pick series all day to make anyone look bad

They're not exactly hand picked, they're half of his playoff career pretty much, which the Lou Fan Club seem to ignore when I have posted them previously. The truth hurts I suppose.

Anyways since you asked nicely, here's the other half. The shiny series'.

2007 vs. Dallas

8.48 GP

1.41 GAA, .950 Sv%

2007 vs. Anaheim

5.63 GP

2.31 GAA, .930 Sv%

2009 vs. St. Louis

4.33 GP

1.15 GAA, .962 Sv%

2011 vs. Nashville

6.75 GP

1.63 GAA, .933 Sv%

2011 vs. San Jose

5.46 GP

2.38 GAA, .931 Sv%

Note that the first 3 series' in this list are also the first 3 series' of his career. He only posted good numbers twice more in his next 7 career series', somewhat inexplicably in my opinion.

[Mustapha]

Everyone knows Lu has problems against Chicago.

Well this will be a serious problem considering Vancouver will most likely need to beat Chicago to get into another SCF.

[Plum]

2011-12 stats for Luongo. 2.41GAA, .919%.

That is not the stats for an elite goaltender.

[5Fivehole0]

2011-12 stats for Luongo. 2.41GAA, .919%.

That is not the stats for an elite goaltender.

2012-2013 stats for Quick 2.45 GAA .902 SV% Still widely considered #2 and on some lists #1 Goalie in the NHL, your point is still as irrelevant as the 1st time you posted it.

In fact, (P.S i love J.Quick) It seems Quick has only shown up for 50% of his play-off runs, with a 3.16 GAA .913% in 2010-2011 and 2009-2010 3.5 GAA .884 SV%

Still widely recieved as #2 Goalie in the NHL

[Guest Dasein]

So we're believing the media now? How convenient when it's in Luongo's favour. But Healey makes a claim Vigneault would've won a Cup if he had a goaltender and the CDC explodes with attempts to discredit or tear him down.

I agree that two 1-0 shutouts that Luongo got was definitely impressive but those games in Boston have to factor in it too and in comparison to Thomas it would be completely unfair to give it to Luongo for just four games of play when Thomas had seven great games. He too got two shutouts to help his club to the Cup.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how the Conn Smythe could've gone to anyone but Thomas win or lose based on all seven games not just the four that wins it.

Media chooses the MVP, so yeah.. Glen Healy is not part of the PHWA

[5Fivehole0]

Well this will be a serious problem considering Vancouver will most likely need to beat Chicago to get into another SCF.

The other flip side to that is Chicago has a history of not scoring on Lu >.>. It makes for a great story.

[Riviera82]

The other flip side to that is Chicago has a history of not scoring on Lu >.>. It makes for a great story.

Not scoring on Lu? His career playoff GAA against Chicago is 3.34 with a .893 Sv%. They can score on him just fine by the looks of it.

[5Fivehole0]

Not scoring on Lu? His career playoff GAA against Chicago is 3.34 with a .893 Sv%. They can score on him just fine by the looks of it.

That comes from when Van was a weaker team AND when Chicago had a team that Corey Hircsh could have backstopped to the cup.

Also comes from, when Lu stops them... He stops them and when they score, well sometimes they score. You are always so quick to point out everything that's wrong but seem to run by and deflect anything good. That is where my problem with a lot of the posts in this thread stem from.

So quick to praise all these other goalies and so quick to bash Lu even though they do the same.

[guesswhere]

entrenched interests are entrenched

[Riviera82]

That comes from when Van was a weaker team AND when Chicago had a team that Corey Hircsh could have backstopped to the cup.

Also comes from, when Lu stops them... He stops them and when they score, well sometimes they score. You are always so quick to point out everything that's wrong but seem to run by and deflect anything good. That is where my problem with a lot of the posts in this thread stem from.

So quick to praise all these other goalies and so quick to bash Lu even though they do the same.

That might explain Luongo's GAA, it isn't always very fair stat to the goalie as the team can influence how many goals they allow. The save percentage however is almost completely on the goaltender in my opinion. If Luongo were a little more elite then perhaps his best Sv% in a Chicago series would be a little higher than .902?

[Papayas]

That might explain Luongo's GAA, it isn't always very fair stat to the goalie as the team can influence how many goals they allow. The save percentage however is almost completely on the goaltender in my opinion. If Luongo were a little more elite then perhaps his best Sv% in a Chicago series would be a little higher than .902?

your opinion is wrong.. and you should at least understand the sport you are watching before you start to aggressively voice your opinion.

[King Heffy]

your opinion is wrong.. and you should at least understand the sport you are watching before you start to aggressively voice your opinion.

He's not wrong when many of the goals in question are weak goals that an AHL backup should be able to stop. Luongo spent more time on his belly than he did in position during the battles with the Hawks.

[guesswhere]

He's not wrong when many of the goals in question are weak goals that an AHL backup should be able to stop. Luongo spent more time on his belly than he did in position during the battles with the Hawks.

Actually 'a therefore b equals c' does not compute...try that logic thing again...you just might get it